Plasma My Foot
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Thread: Plasma My Foot

  1. #1
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    Plasma My Foot

    There's an old saying.

    "Don't pee on my leg, and tell me it's rainin'"

    The sales reps tell ya that the bevel produced by a plasma cutter is inconsequential. Yeah right It's one of my pet peeves with plasma.

    I had the pleasure of working with some 1" plate today. It's a drop from some work on the LWS plasma table.

    Name:  lathe setup166.JPG
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Size:  210.2 KB I'd call that pretty consequential O2 track torch give a better cut

    They have some kind of 100amp machine. It's either Hypertherm, or a Cutmaster. And the guy runnin' it isn't a complete moron.

  2. #2
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    Re: Plasma My Foot

    Looks like the operator was named Sam, Not a clue about cutting correctly with Plasma
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  3. #3
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    Re: Plasma My Foot

    That could very well be a plasma cut. Done with inferior equipment, incorrect settings, untrained operator, (I wouldn't call the operator a moron, however he needs some help). Here is 1/2" steel cut on my little cnc table. When you cut thicker the angularity gets better, not worse. This 1/2" was cut with an air plasma, expect faster speeds, even less angularity, better edge metallurgy when you step up to an XPR class (high definition) oxygen plasma. I added a couple pics of air plasma cuts on 3/8" steel, and a proper tool to measure angularity. Name:  .5 parts cut quality.jpg
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    Jim Colt Name:  .5 parts cut quality.jpg
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    Last edited by jimcolt; 04-08-2019 at 07:53 AM.

  4. #4
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    Re: Plasma My Foot

    and for the next thread your going to show a bad mig weld as proof stick welding is the best?
    General Contractor
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  5. #5
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    Re: Plasma My Foot


  6. #6
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    Re: Plasma My Foot

    "Bevel angle is the angle of the cut edge
    A cut with 0° bevel is a straight cut, perpendicular to the plane of the material. Most plasma torches use a clockwise swirling flow of plasma gas, which produces a straighter cut on the right hand side of the kerf with respect to forward torch motion. Typical bevel angles for conventional plasma torches range from 1-3 degrees on the "good" side of the cut and 3-8 degrees on the "bad" side of the cut. High tolerance plasma cutting systems can achieve even lower bevel angles. Although some bevel is inherent in the plasma process due to the shape of the gas jet as it exits the torch nozzle, it is possible to minimize it. Bevel angle greater than 5 degrees may indicate a problem with PAC machine parameters." DIRECT QUOTE FROM THE HYPERTHERM WEBSITE

    Let's get scientific (and real) about this.

    Name:  bogus4.JPG
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Size:  194.9 KB Checking the gage against a standard.

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Size:  204.2 KB Side one

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    Name:  bogus5.JPG
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Size:  205.7 KB "Aw, it's just a few degrees" "It's ok" I'd call this amount of error somewhat consequential

    We're in tolerance PER HYPERTHERM'S ARTICLE. Them kinda tolerances are pretty sloppy. If a guy cut this with a real torch, and it came out like this, he'd be read the riot act

    The error isn't something you'd notice on up to maybe 1/2" plate...…...but you get into 1" plate, and it sticks out like a sore thumb.

    If I'm doing the fitup on this stuff I gotta problem. Good side/bad side...……...I still will have a gap when I do a T joint. A gap has to be filled, AND A GAP WHEN FILLED CAUSES THE METAL TO PULL. So now, I gotta do a bit of fancy tacking to hopefully hold this from closing up on me, and causing a mess. I can go a ways in preventing problems....but bottom line...….I'm still gonna have some shrinkage in the gap, and it's make stuff move where I don't want it to move.

    So, don't pee on my leg

  7. #7
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    Re: Plasma My Foot

    Jim said: "That could very well be a plasma cut."

    Yeah, I suppose it could

    They have a bigazz plasma table.

    We picked up the plate from next to the plasma table.

    And, they don't run a track torch in this shop.

    So yeah, it could very well be a plasma cut


  8. #8
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    Re: Plasma My Foot

    My 65 cuts 5/8 like a laser. Anything thicker and it gets weird....drag tip, straight edge. 1" ? oxy acet torch time.

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    Re: Plasma My Foot

    Samm, couldn't you just angle the torch 3° away from the "good" piece and thereby get a square cut on the good piece, moving all the angularity of the kerf to the offcut?

    Then just flip the offcut and lather rinse repeat?

  10. #10
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    Re: Plasma My Foot

    Quote Originally Posted by Kelvin View Post
    Samm, couldn't you just angle the torch 3° away from the "good" piece and thereby get a square cut on the good piece, moving all the angularity of the kerf to the offcut?

    Then just flip the offcut and lather rinse repeat?
    I dunno, it might work. I can ask the guy that runs the plasma. But it sort of makes sense for straight cuts

    I"ve never cut stuff 1" thick with my 60amp machine, but I'm pretty sure it won't cut something that thick. Otherwise I'd give it a shot.

    I get people all riled up. I'm not really saying plasma is bad. I like it, and I use it all the time. What I am saying is that the marketing is somewhat suspect, and takes advantage of folks.

  11. #11
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    Re: Plasma My Foot

    My cutmaster 60i will cut 1 inch a bit easier then my 45 Amp Hypertherm 45XP did. Both will cut it very nice. The cutmaster 52 is a bit down in power from those machines.. It can do it ,but right at the point of getting very slow, where duty-cycle issues show up.

    This is the 45 amp machine cuts. Very happy, and would not even fire up my gas axe machine torch for something this size. Although there is generally less issues with the gas torch. If i was making longer cuts, then the gas torch would be used. By the way cut speed is about the same using O/2, and a 90 amp Esab, Hypertherm 85 or a 100 amp Cutmaster The Esab, and Hyperthem cut nicer then the Thermal will using the 100 amp consumables.

    Because one person cannot cut 1 inch correctly with plasma, does not mean that everybody is locked into that logic. It's like anything. if you work at it, things get better.

    Straight cuts on inch with a cutmaster 52, and a track torch could get great cuts, Just watch the duty-cycle. I cut about 2 ft one time. Probably getting close to the max on duty-cycle from a cold machine/cold shop.
    Attached Images Attached Images  
    Last edited by Brand X; 04-08-2019 at 12:49 PM.
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  12. #12
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    Re: Plasma My Foot

    Quote Originally Posted by farmersammm View Post
    I"ve never cut stuff 1" thick with my 60amp machine, but I'm pretty sure it won't cut something that thick.
    I believe my Powermax 45 will "sever" 1" steel, though I've never tried it. Also not sure how much difference there is between "sever" and "cut"...

    Hey Samm, what kind of a rule (or square blade) is that in your 4th pic? I like it, and I have similar Starretts and B&S but I kinda like that one (never saw a rule quite like that)...
    Last edited by Kelvin; 04-08-2019 at 12:46 PM.

  13. #13
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    Re: Plasma My Foot

    Quote Originally Posted by Kelvin View Post
    I believe my Powermax 45 will "sever" 1" steel, though I've never tried it. Also not sure how much difference there is between "sever" and "cut"...

    Hey Samm, what kind of a rule is that in your 4th pic? I like it, and I have similar Starretts but I kinda like that one (never saw a rule quite like that)...
    It's the rule that goes with my machinist square. Made in India (no brand). Same with the little 6" pocket rule. Some of their stuff is pretty nice, and affordable for us little guys.

  14. #14
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    Re: Plasma My Foot

    Quote Originally Posted by farmersammm View Post
    It's the rule that goes with my machinist square. Made in India (no brand). Same with the little 6" pocket rule. Some of their stuff is pretty nice, and affordable for us little guys.
    Thanks. It looks a little like the satin-chrome Starrett I have in a combo square. Do you have a source for them? Are they still available?

  15. #15
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    Re: Plasma My Foot

    For me, 1” thick material is a job for acetylene oxy torch, not the plasma cutter.
    I’ve cut 2” thick plate with a victor radial graph track cutter. The cuts were absolutely perfect.
    Jason
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    Re: Plasma My Foot

    Quote Originally Posted by snoeproe View Post
    for me, 1” thick material is a job for acetylene oxy torch, not the plasma cutter.
    I’ve cut 2” thick plate with a victor radial graph track cutter. The cuts were absolutely perfect.
    amen....

  17. #17
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    Re: Plasma My Foot

    OK....had things to do today, and I was sure this thread (with Farmer Samm) would get responses.

    1. Yes a Powermax45 or 45 XP will sever 1" and cut it with better squareness (near perfect) as compared to the pic from Farmer Samm. You cannot pierce 1" with a 45 amp plasma, the 45 and 45 xp are rated for 1/2" and will do that all day. If you want to compare plasma with oxyfuel on 1", well then you choose a plasma that will compare. The XPR300 from Hypertherm will leave you a pile of steel 1" parts )on a cnc machine) that is 10 x bigger than the pile from the oxy torch and with a smaller heat affected zone and far lower operating cost, and better edge angularity than an oxy torch. Don't even attempt this with an air plasma under 125 amps.

    2. A Powermax125 air plasma will produce about 4 x the 1" parts will on 1" steel with square edges and less edge heat affected zone as compared to oxy-fuel.

    If Farmer Samm wants to compare with small plasma systems.....well then it is like entering a Pinto in the Daytona 500.

    OK, I'll check this in the AM, Farmer Samm will be all over this! Jim Colt

  18. #18
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    Re: Plasma My Foot

    This is what will cause the type of taper (varying) with a plasma cutter:

    1. Damaged nozzle orifice. This is almost always caused by piecing too close to
    the plate. The Powermax900 should be using shielded consumables (check your
    operators manual for correct part numbers) and you should be piercing the 3/8"
    at about .15"....with and adequate pierce delay to allow full pierce befor any
    machine movement...then you should be cutting at .06". If you did one pierc too
    close on a new nozzle...the nozzle is likly damaged and will cut with varying
    angularity. Posting some focused, closeup pictures of your used nozzle will
    allow me to instantly determine if this is the case.

    2. A missing or worn o-ring on the torch body will cause varying angularity.

    3. A worn retaining cap will cause varying angularity

    4. a worn swirl ring will cause varying angularity

    5. Varying cut height will vay the angularity.

    6. a worn out or leaky torch body will cause varying angularity.

    metalmagpie

  19. #19
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    Re: Plasma My Foot

    So many variables and not enough information for that old rusty 1" drop, looks like scrap bin material. What ancient plasma machine did that?
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  20. #20
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    Re: Plasma My Foot

    Quote Originally Posted by Jawslandshark View Post
    So many variables and not enough information for that old rusty 1" drop, looks like scrap bin material. What ancient plasma machine did that?
    Killin' ya ain't it. Stuff gets rusty around here. Ancient...…...I think not.

    I'm sure the hi def plasma, or whatever they call it, will do a good job on thick. But I'm talkin' about the hype that's sold to the average dood that just lurks here. This technology isn't the end-all-be-all. O2 rocks for thick stuff. UNLESS YA DON'T KNOW HOW TO RUN IT

  21. #21
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    Re: Plasma My Foot

    My horse died long ago but I still go and flog his white bones, that lazy bustard! Yes, plaz is not oxy-fuel, water or laser. So you pick up a drop that's been laying around for years and THAT'S something to post about? Well I'll trump you: on my fifty year old Sprunger Bros. Bandsaw a casting just failed! Now that, right there, is something worth posting about!
    Last edited by Yofish; 04-08-2019 at 11:40 PM.

  22. #22
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    Re: Plasma My Foot

    Quote Originally Posted by farmersammm View Post
    Killin' ya ain't it. Stuff gets rusty around here. Ancient...…...I think not.

    I'm sure the hi def plasma, or whatever they call it, will do a good job on thick. But I'm talkin' about the hype that's sold to the average dood that just lurks here. This technology isn't the end-all-be-all. O2 rocks for thick stuff. UNLESS YA DON'T KNOW HOW TO RUN IT

    damn FarmerSammm your stating the obvious. sure aint no weldersamm. every process has its application. and none are the end-all-be-all. who do you think your helping? O2 does rock thick stuff, and it doesn't matter the process if you cant run it the outcome can be crap.

    but now your either a troll, or too ignorant to know what you dont know. i know that with out the hypertherm 65 i use daily with out fail, and the outstanding support Mr Jim Colt provides to this forum and many others, i wouldn't be able provide for my family like i do. i also know that 3/4" is the break even point for my switch to oxy fuel. i still run the plas up to 1" because its cheap to run and the angle dont matter when building say a brush rake for an excavator. but i'm picking up on the fact that you also dont know how to cut anything but a straight line.

    the marketing especially of hypertherm is on point, they provide graphed break even points vs oxy fuel. even production and best quality info. because we aint building Big Ben everyday, and most fabrication isn't clockwork. you pickin up what i'm layin down?

    eff it, you are being a troll. you wife leave and the dog runaway? kickins, whatever that means, kick you to he curb? pulling scrap from around a table and trying to point blame, you sound miserable. share good info or expect to be trolled back.


    smh. sammm, thought you where one of the good ones. get a life, or gtfo
    Last edited by tracymobilecnc; 04-09-2019 at 12:38 AM.
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  23. #23
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    Re: Plasma My Foot

    Quote Originally Posted by farmersammm View Post
    Killin' ya ain't it. Stuff gets rusty around here. Ancient...…...I think not.

    I'm sure the hi def plasma, or whatever they call it, will do a good job on thick. But I'm talkin' about the hype that's sold to the average dood that just lurks here. This technology isn't the end-all-be-all. O2 rocks for thick stuff. UNLESS YA DON'T KNOW HOW TO RUN IT
    Glad I am not where you are if stuff gets rusty that fast!

    No pictures of drops but I have a punch plate on my ironworker I cut just a few months ago with the Hypertherm 85. Five minutes in cad, a couple more in Sheetcam and bam, came off the table just like you see it. Pretty sure this was at 60 amps with consumables that I had probably run the life out of on other jobs.

    I don't know how to run a torch, purposely forgot.
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  24. #24
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    Re: Plasma My Foot

    If I march over there tomorrow, and have the dood cut me a brand new shiny piece...………….it would still not pass muster in yer opinion. Same results, but put the blinders on, and Build That Wall Reality sucks I guess. But not really...…...just get the new Fake News attitude.....and the facts can be what ya want them to be. IMHO of course.

    We gots a coupla donkeys...……...they never die Think I'm wrong...…………………………...Ever seen a dead donkey???????????? Ain't a horse, but it tries to give a good imitation.

    Have a wonderful evening.

  25. #25
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    Re: Plasma My Foot

    above post for yofish

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