Repair of backhoe swing frame - Cast Steel - Page 5
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  1. #101
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    Re: Repair of backhoe swing frame - Cast Steel

    Good advice here, thread started a little rough but looks like the OP got most of the info/insight he was looking for. If you can't take someone being a little mean to you with a grain of salt you're definitely in the wrong business working with metal/heavy equip lol. I find many of my coworkers are more than happy to respond to "hey azzhole!" if you're doing your job right and aren't slowing everyone down. Gruff is no problem if the advice is solid and the experience is there, and as the OP seemed to get over it quickly there's no need to be captain-save-an-OP here. LOL MinnesotaDave i think we might be operating in the same price bracket, the ingenuity doesn't cost a dime though, right?

  2. #102
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    Re: Repair of backhoe swing frame - Cast Steel

    Im sure you have already made a decision but I didnt realize you were a machinist If you have drawing skills and a program that you can cycle the movements you could probably draw something up that a standard fab shop or you could weld up in a few hours i was thinking the expense of the machining would be more than the backhoe would be worth. building a new part is easy getting everything Machined is where the expense is at least any time i have to fix something one off, if i dont have a 1500 dollar machining bill they made a mistake . 5 or 6 hours to build it then 20 hours of machining time
    Do not argue with an idiot. He will drag you down to his level and beat you with experience.

  3. #103
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    Re: Repair of backhoe swing frame - Cast Steel

    Quote Originally Posted by SlowBlues View Post
    LOL MinnesotaDave i think we might be operating in the same price bracket, the ingenuity doesn't cost a dime though, right?
    Right, and there is very little that can't be "fixed" with a calibrated eyeballometer, a grinder, welder and hammer.

    Little rattle can flat black, fixed.
    Dave J.

    Beware of false knowledge; it is more dangerous than ignorance. ~George Bernard Shaw~

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  4. #104
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    Re: Repair of backhoe swing frame - Cast Steel

    Machining light weldments, with a lot of locked up stress, can be a real mess.

    By light...………..I mean light compared to what's there on the machine now. Ya, you can make a frame that approximates the original part, but it's gonna be made outta relatively light components. It's gonna distort, it's gonna store stresses, it's gonna be an adventure. Not sayin' it can't be done, it's just gonna be something that takes some dedication.

    1/8" outta square is no biggy on most stuff, but it's like a mile on something that has to be bored true...…...especially when the bore has to go thru light, thin walled, material.

    Heat straigtening, correct joint design, good welding, and overall mechanical design that takes into account the loads imposed. Lotta fun.

    The thing is total crap as it sits now. A really cruddy machine overall. I'M NOT SAYING THAT TO BE MEAN...…...I GOT STUFF IN THE SAME SHAPE. I just know what it takes to get it running again...………….money, and time, that almost justify buying a good one in the first place. No real savings if you got stuff to do with the machine, and it's sitting there broke down. Sometimes...…………..if ya can't afford to buy new, or good used...…….ya sure don't have the money to buy used.

  5. #105
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    Re: Repair of backhoe swing frame - Cast Steel

    I’m beginning to think the op just bought this machine as a project to see if he can fix it.

  6. #106
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    Re: Repair of backhoe swing frame - Cast Steel

    I can get into his frame of mind...………………..Hell,,,,,,,,,,,,I've been there. You buy,, and hope it pans out.

    Just look at all the crap I went thru when installing/repairing the stupid lathe...…….and that thing was NEW. I've been down this road before, and no justt only on the lathe. The Great Dane resto was a total PITA if'n y'all remember.

  7. #107
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    Re: Repair of backhoe swing frame - Cast Steel

    That's what ya' git for buying new Sam!!! I have a few projects in process right now.... well they started some years ago heh heh.... I have got into many heavy projects some have been done and are out the door some are done and come in handy for other projects an then there are the ones that might take a wee bit longer then originally planned The thing is I know exactly what needs to be done with them and what kind of resources it will take be it money of just parts and time

    While the OP is out getting second opinions right now I'm sure he will be back to let us know what direction he decides to take in this adventure.

  8. #108
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    Re: Repair of backhoe swing frame - Cast Steel

    Cobble it back together. You can get welds to look nice on it. They may not hold well but they’ll look ok. Touch up previous shotty repair. Paint the whole swing frame and sell the machine on Craigslist. You can recoup your money and in a month or so we can go through it again when the new owner shows up with questions about repairing it
    Millermatic 252
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  9. #109
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    Re: Repair of backhoe swing frame - Cast Steel

    Quote Originally Posted by MinnesotaDave View Post
    ...most of my equipment is valued in the quarter thousand range (give or take a quarter).
    In my case I usually pay multi thousand, then after a seller predicted break, it's value is quarter thousand. Then I'm stuck with the "how do I fix this?"

    The few I have seen fixed successfully weren't worth the repair...........unless you factor the educational value.

    If a person could live 200 years, and learn from every off course event, never forgetting, That person could be truly wise. The tractor ain't worth fixing. Might learn something fixing it. Either way, a Hell of a ride!
    An optimist is usually wrong, and when the unexpected happens is unprepared. A pessimist is usually right, when wrong, is delighted, and well prepared.

  10. #110
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    Re: Repair of backhoe swing frame - Cast Steel

    He bought it for the front end loader, then thought the back-hoe would be handy. He's better off taking the loader off and scrapping the temptation.

    This is going back 35 years, but a friend bought a used JD back-hoe. It was half the price of a D-8 cat and it's per hour rate was 50% higher in northern BC at the time. Even though it was in nice shape, it still needed maintenance, as all used equipment does, luckily he was a HD mechanic.
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  11. #111
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    Re: Repair of backhoe swing frame - Cast Steel

    Quote Originally Posted by Downwindtracker2 View Post
    He bought it for the front end loader, then thought the back-hoe would be handy. He's better off taking the loader off and scrapping the temptation.

    This is going back 35 years, but a friend bought a used JD back-hoe. It was half the price of a D-8 cat and it's per hour rate was 50% higher in northern BC at the time. Even though it was in nice shape, it still needed maintenance, as all used equipment does, luckily he was a HD mechanic.
    Your math confuses me. A JD backhoe ever had a higher hourly rate than a D8?

    My first backhoe was a JD410. A farmer sold it at auction. I couldn't make the auction, but showed up next day to see if the buyer was interested in a quick turn around. He was. I asked the former owner (a man I knew casually) if there was anything major wrong with it. He went on telling me what great brakes it had. I found this curious, but bought it. The visual condition was too good to be true. It was old, but very little pin/bushing wear, little wear on either bucket, and not a repair weld anywhere. Fresh off the trailer it was perfect. After half hour run time, oil heated up, and hydraulics petered down to nothing! Months of searching for a competent John Deere mechanic failed. I eventually researched enough to figure it out. Bores too big for the spools in the backhoe valve. Cost of parts exceeded the value of the tractor. I refitted it with an after market valve, but meantime, i needed a backhoe, and bought another.
    An optimist is usually wrong, and when the unexpected happens is unprepared. A pessimist is usually right, when wrong, is delighted, and well prepared.

  12. #112
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    Mar 2018
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    Re: Repair of backhoe swing frame - Cast Steel

    His math was solid, D-8s were common, were as back-hoes weren't . In those days, they were still breaking land, so a lot of ranchers seemed to have one. Plus all the ones the big oil patch contractors had.

    No one is fond of working with hydraulics , it's pretty dirty . But until AC drives, it was an excellent way to get variable speed and by using pressure sequential actions.
    Last edited by Downwindtracker2; 05-28-2019 at 11:14 PM.
    Man of foolish pursuits
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  13. #113
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    Re: Repair of backhoe swing frame - Cast Steel

    Quote Originally Posted by Willie B View Post
    Your math confuses me. A JD backhoe ever had a higher hourly rate than a D8?

    My first backhoe was a JD410. A farmer sold it at auction. I couldn't make the auction, but showed up next day to see if the buyer was interested in a quick turn around. He was. I asked the former owner (a man I knew casually) if there was anything major wrong with it. He went on telling me what great brakes it had. I found this curious, but bought it. The visual condition was too good to be true. It was old, but very little pin/bushing wear, little wear on either bucket, and not a repair weld anywhere. Fresh off the trailer it was perfect. After half hour run time, oil heated up, and hydraulics petered down to nothing! Months of searching for a competent John Deere mechanic failed. I eventually researched enough to figure it out. Bores too big for the spools in the backhoe valve. Cost of parts exceeded the value of the tractor. I refitted it with an after market valve, but meantime, i needed a backhoe, and bought another.

    It's funny you mention the valve spools. First time I ran into that was on a Massey-Ferguson backhoe 25 years ago. I think I mention the customer earlier in this thread. I got a local hydraulic shop to send the valve block out to have the spools built up with chrome and reground then have the block honed to fit the spools. It wasn't cheap, but it ran good after that.

  14. #114
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    Re: Repair of backhoe swing frame - Cast Steel

    I've always wondered if that might have worked on this valve. New Hampshire Hydraulics said I had to replace three sections. They said no evidence of wear, just defective manufacture. The old valve components were unavailable. The whole valve would have cost $5000. An after market valve cost $1400. Then it was narrower than original. I had to replace the joystick frame with one I fabricated of welded steel, the original was cast iron.

    Those earlier John Deere hydraulic systems were functionally far superior to other makes, and very complex. Far more prone to leakage as the whole system was under high pressure all the time.
    An optimist is usually wrong, and when the unexpected happens is unprepared. A pessimist is usually right, when wrong, is delighted, and well prepared.

  15. #115
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    Mar 2018
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    Re: Repair of backhoe swing frame - Cast Steel

    Where I worked they had a big outdoor forklift for rod coils. They got cheap and bought a POS Clark . When one line would have to be loosened or replaced, I can't remember which, from the block, we had to remove almost all the lines to get to it. The next machine was a Taylor, they learned their lesson in rental fees with all the Clark's downtime . On the Taylor the block was wide enough you could remove lines individually . It sounds like the JD was like that.

    Hydraulic fluid comes from the refinery dirty. In pulp mills where downtime is a million $ expense, we would have to pump new fluid through a filtering system. You are suppose to do that any time you add hydraulic fluid , so you can see how a easily hydraulics in a back-hoe could go for a sh**.
    Man of foolish pursuits
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  16. #116
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    Re: Repair of backhoe swing frame - Cast Steel

    Part found. (Heavy equipment Forums)

  17. #117
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    Re: Repair of backhoe swing frame - Cast Steel

    Quote Originally Posted by Bls repair View Post
    Part found. (Heavy equipment Forums)
    I saw that earlier, looks like he has enough parts to pick and choose the best from.

  18. #118
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    May 2019
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    21

    Re: Repair of backhoe swing frame - Cast Steel

    Just to provide some follow up news on progress. This weekend a buddy came out and helped with getting the stick, boom, and bucket off the rest of the way. I drug that assembly away from the tractor with the truck, so I could get access to the rest of the swing frame and see what I have in front of me.
    Attachment 1702058
    Attachment 1702059

    Besides the obvious bit where the swing cylinders attachment points got seriously twisted, it looks like the hoe back frame assembly also got bent.

    I had also continued my search for parts, and as of Sunday afternoon I had FINALLY managed to locate a used equipment dealer in upstate New York who DID have the part I was looking for. It's the only one I found, but turned out he has THREE in his yard.


    He doesn't have an inventory of everything he has, and doesn't have any means of really contacting the rest of the world. Seems like he's more of a hoarder than a used equipment parts dealer, but thought a LOT of digging and searching, I tracked down a solid lead, finally! Took me almost 2.5 weeks, but I got there. He wasn't interested in selling just the frame and pivot frame, but we negotiated an acceptable price for both of us for the entire hoe assembly. That's frame, stabilizers, controls, hydraulic valves, hoses, pivot frame, pivot cylinders, boom, stick, bucket, and their associated cylinders. The whole kit and caboodle. It cost me almost as much as the rest of the machine, but again I looked at it as what it would have cost me to add a backhoe onto anything else or purchase a different backhoe, and balanced that against the cost I would have incurred if I had to hire out some of the dirt work I want done here on the ranch... and pulled the trigger. They are pulling the parts now, and it's looking like I put the trailer on the truck and head NE from TX to NY on or about Wednesday.

    I might have been able to fix what I have currently, but I'd have it in the back of my mind EVERY time I went to lift something heavy, or put a big load on it: "is THIS the time that my repair is going to fail and it's all going to let go"

    I would have preferred to purchase just the parts I needed, but I also understood why he didn't want to part out less than that, and it was perfectly reasonable from his side of the equation. Plus, just those two parts alone could have pretty easily and justifiably cost me more than that. He gave me a good price overall, and I got more than I need with a good bit of spares. Anything that's not in decent condition will go to the scrap recycler next time I haul chips that way.

    Plus, once it all repaired, it'll still be worth more than I could have bought one, so can get the work done I'm looking to do, and if I decide to sell it down the road, I likely can get everything put into it back out. We'll see.

  19. #119
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    Re: Repair of backhoe swing frame - Cast Steel

    Quote Originally Posted by midnightfant View Post
    Just to provide some follow up news on progress. This weekend a buddy came out and helped with getting the stick, boom, and bucket off the rest of the way. I drug that assembly away from the tractor with the truck, so I could get access to the rest of the swing frame and see what I have in front of me.
    Attachment 1702058
    Attachment 1702059

    Besides the obvious bit where the swing cylinders attachment points got seriously twisted, it looks like the hoe back frame assembly also got bent.

    I had also continued my search for parts, and as of Sunday afternoon I had FINALLY managed to locate a used equipment dealer in upstate New York who DID have the part I was looking for. It's the only one I found, but turned out he has THREE in his yard.


    He doesn't have an inventory of everything he has, and doesn't have any means of really contacting the rest of the world. Seems like he's more of a hoarder than a used equipment parts dealer, but thought a LOT of digging and searching, I tracked down a solid lead, finally! Took me almost 2.5 weeks, but I got there. He wasn't interested in selling just the frame and pivot frame, but we negotiated an acceptable price for both of us for the entire hoe assembly. That's frame, stabilizers, controls, hydraulic valves, hoses, pivot frame, pivot cylinders, boom, stick, bucket, and their associated cylinders. The whole kit and caboodle. It cost me almost as much as the rest of the machine, but again I looked at it as what it would have cost me to add a backhoe onto anything else or purchase a different backhoe, and balanced that against the cost I would have incurred if I had to hire out some of the dirt work I want done here on the ranch... and pulled the trigger. They are pulling the parts now, and it's looking like I put the trailer on the truck and head NE from TX to NY on or about Wednesday.

    I might have been able to fix what I have currently, but I'd have it in the back of my mind EVERY time I went to lift something heavy, or put a big load on it: "is THIS the time that my repair is going to fail and it's all going to let go"

    I would have preferred to purchase just the parts I needed, but I also understood why he didn't want to part out less than that, and it was perfectly reasonable from his side of the equation. Plus, just those two parts alone could have pretty easily and justifiably cost me more than that. He gave me a good price overall, and I got more than I need with a good bit of spares. Anything that's not in decent condition will go to the scrap recycler next time I haul chips that way.

    Plus, once it all repaired, it'll still be worth more than I could have bought one, so can get the work done I'm looking to do, and if I decide to sell it down the road, I likely can get everything put into it back out. We'll see.
    where upstate ny? and no I dont need them parts...lol
    dont scrap any parts since they are not avail, there may be someone like you that rather have a broke or worn part to work from...or at not least till your completely done rebuilding...
    Last edited by Hobbytime; 06-06-2019 at 03:48 PM.

  20. #120
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    Re: Repair of backhoe swing frame - Cast Steel

    why don't you go play keyboard commando somewhere else while I'm talking with the adults in the room.[/QUOTE]

    Good come back.

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