Really thick steel TIG weld
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  1. #1
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    Really thick steel TIG weld

    Need to weld this 2” rod to this 1” thick plate. I’ve never welded anything this thick before, and not sure if my 200A Everlast is up to the task. Got a 26 water cooled torch.

    I’m thinking doing this with many many passes with a lot of cup walking.

    I know TIG and gas, but I’ve never learned any other welding process.

    You guys think this is doable with a 200A TIG?




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  2. #2
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    Re: Really thick steel TIG weld


    Andy Somogyi


    Quote Originally Posted by Andy Somogyi View Post
    Need to weld this 2” rod to this 1” thick plate . . .
    What is: the material, the weld joint configuration, and the
    utility of the final product.

    What it does determines weld joint design suitability, the
    size of the weld, - and how much Amp. H.P is required . . .


    Opus

  3. #3
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    Re: Really thick steel TIG weld

    Quote Originally Posted by OPUS FERRO View Post

    Andy Somogyi




    What is: the material, the weld joint configuration, and the
    utility of the final product.

    What it does determines weld joint design suitability, the
    size of the weld, - and how much Amp. H.P is required . . .


    Opus
    The plate is hot rolled, and the rod is cold rolled mild steel. Using ER70S6.

    This is going to be a adjustable angle plate on my milling machine to mill some custom parts. The top plate will be machined after welding.


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  4. #4
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    Re: Really thick steel TIG weld

    You can absolutely do this with a 200 amp machine. Just preheat the material to somewhere around 250° and have at it.

  5. #5
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    Re: Really thick steel TIG weld


    Andy Somogyi


    Quote Originally Posted by Andy Somogyi View Post
    The plate is . . . This is going to be a adjustable angle plate
    on my milling machine . . . The top plate will be machined
    after welding.
    If I understand correctly - your weldment is static = welds to
    hold position - and not subject to dynamic load/stresses . . .

    In load/stress applications - round to square - is a prohibited
    weld joint . . .

    This is the sanctioned cheat - and within a 200 Amp. machine.

    Don't weld in the crotch of the 'round to flat' - insert into the
    recess, small-flat-bars parallel with the length of the CR & HR.

    Judicially - skip weld [warpage] after thoroughly descaling the
    elements . . .

    HTH -


    Opus

  6. #6
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    Re: Really thick steel TIG weld

    I prefer 250+ amps with 1/8" filler rod on heavy metal, but your machine will do ok.

    With your limitations I'd likely use 3/32" rod.

    Don't forget to grind off the millscale.
    Dave J.

    Beware of false knowledge; it is more dangerous than ignorance. ~George Bernard Shaw~

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  7. #7
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    Re: Really thick steel TIG weld

    You got plenty of amps. A root pass then a couple weave passes should get the job done. Unless your going to bevel the round stock then it would need some more passes

  8. #8
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    Re: Really thick steel TIG weld

    Thanks for the info. My original plan was (a) in the attached figure — two fillet welds, with A LOT of groove filling. So is (b) better, with a pair of plates cut and fillet welded in?

    Hmm, interesting, I would have thought (a) would be a lot stronger.

    The actual load in this part will be very very low, however it’s going to secure a part during a milling operation, so it needs to be very rigid. My thinking is making them more solid as in (a) would dampen vibrations better than (b).

    But that’s just my gut, I’m an engineer in my day job, not a pro welder by trade.



    Quote Originally Posted by OPUS FERRO View Post

    Andy Somogyi




    If I understand correctly - your weldment is static = welds to
    hold position - and not subject to dynamic load/stresses . . .

    In load/stress applications - round to square - is a prohibited
    weld joint . . .

    This is the sanctioned cheat - and within a 200 Amp. machine.

    Don't weld in the crotch of the 'round to flat' - insert into the
    recess, small-flat-bars parallel with the length of the CR & HR.

    Judicially - skip weld [warpage] after thoroughly descaling the
    elements . . .

    HTH -


    Opus



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  9. #9
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    Re: Really thick steel TIG weld

    LOL, yeah clean off the mill scale with TIG, I’ve definitely learned that’s kinda important

    I’ve fillet and groove welded 1/2” plate with this welder, root and multiple hot passes, I’ve found 1/8 rod at 190A works pretty nicely. Melts easy and penetration is good. Made a big difference when I moved up to a 26 torch, much more stable arc than the 17.

    Thanks

    Quote Originally Posted by MinnesotaDave View Post
    I prefer 250+ amps with 1/8" filler rod on heavy metal, but your machine will do ok.

    With your limitations I'd likely use 3/32" rod.

    Don't forget to grind off the millscale.



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  10. #10
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    Re: Really thick steel TIG weld


    Andy Somogyi


    Quote Originally Posted by Andy Somogyi View Post
    Thanks for the info. My original plan was . . .
    You know [about] weld symbols - this is the meat - read the entire thread . . .

    https://weldingweb.com/showthread.ph...cking-with-TIG

    HTH


    Opus



    ps -

    If you are committed to welding - get this book . . .

    https://images.search.yahoo.com/yhs/...Gz8f05rePKolHL

    Buy used - any edition from the 12th. forward is good . . .

  11. #11
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    Re: Really thick steel TIG weld

    That makes it a touch more difficult getting down in there but definitely possibly, just whatch the duty cycle on the welder

    It’s way less welding when using the plate and it won’t warp. It will warp the other way. I’d use the plate like in the drawling

  12. #12
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    Re: Really thick steel TIG weld

    Ah ha, I see what you’re saying, it’s a very bad weld profile, particularly the root, in that it’s deep and narrow, thus prone to cracking. Makes sense, thanks.

    So, some ways around this I see are milling about 3/8” I.e. making a face, then welding. This welds a flat to flat, thus eliminating the deep narrow root pass.

    I’ll pick up that book, good info.

    I found a nice summary of weld profiles here


    https://m.lincolnelectric.com/en-us/...ldcracking.pdf

    Quote Originally Posted by OPUS FERRO View Post

    Andy Somogyi




    You know [about] weld symbols - this is the meat - read the entire thread . . .

    https://weldingweb.com/showthread.ph...cking-with-TIG

    HTH


    Opus



    ps -

    If you are committed to welding - get this book . . .

    https://images.search.yahoo.com/yhs/...Gz8f05rePKolHL

    Buy used - any edition from the 12th. forward is good . . .



    Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk Pro

  13. #13
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    Re: Really thick steel TIG weld

    For what your using this for I'd use the plate method, it doesn't have to be full pen to get the rigidity needed.

    Perhaps put a few decent 1/2 inch long tacks in the root where the round and flat meet before plating it out for a bit more lateral stability.

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  14. #14
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    Re: Really thick steel TIG weld

    I agree with ttoks. Option b) has the potential for the most rigidity.

    In addition to the added plate material, the location of the welds provides greater leverage to prevent movement of the solid shaft.
    Dave J.

    Beware of false knowledge; it is more dangerous than ignorance. ~George Bernard Shaw~

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  15. #15
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    Re: Really thick steel TIG weld

    Why not stick weld it?
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  16. #16
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    Re: Really thick steel TIG weld

    Quote Originally Posted by Renaissance1 View Post
    Why not stick weld it?
    Mostly because I’m not very good at stick, haven’t stick welded in a long time.


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  17. #17
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    Re: Really thick steel TIG weld

    Somewhere between A and B. Lay 1/2" rod in the joint. Tack it often. Move around side to side, end to end. It'll distort a lot, It will then need to be machined flat again.
    An optimist is usually wrong, and when the unexpected happens is unprepared. A pessimist is usually right, when wrong, is delighted, and well prepared.

  18. #18
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    Re: Really thick steel TIG weld

    Sure it is doable. The machine is up to the task but your aircooled torch is going to complain as it is rated for 150 amps but you really want to weld at 200 amps as long as you can. You will have to let it cool many times and could loose your heat buildup but I have yet to melt the head off the torch. I have a thermal blanket to cover between passes or at lunchtime.

    This joint is called a flare bevel groove weld. Anyway two ways I have done this is preheat to some 400 degrees with a rosebud and drive a root pass in the root. Or weld the ends and baby the root passes in. Then a series of weaves like mentioned above.

    Anyway once you accumulate some heat in the weldment it should weld nice.
    Weld like a "WELDOR", not a wel-"DERR"
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  19. #19
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    Re: Really thick steel TIG weld

    I'd just run some 5/32" 6010 nice and hot in for the root. Then clean and weave a couple tig passes over that.
    --Gol'

  20. #20
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    Re: Really thick steel TIG weld

    I was welding something about that size last night on my 330. Set at around 200 amps, 1/8 filler rod. It works fine once you get some preheat into the part. I think you'll be fine if you heat the parts up a little and give er hell.
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  21. #21
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    Re: Really thick steel TIG weld

    Quote Originally Posted by 86turbodsl View Post
    I was welding something about that size last night on my 330. Set at around 200 amps, 1/8 filler rod. It works fine once you get some preheat into the part. I think you'll be fine if you heat the parts up a little and give er hell.
    You got the amps, go 230-250 amps and let'er fly.

    Instant puddle, rock on with 1/8" rod and try for "mig speed"

    Plus, big amps can "eliminate mill scale cleaning"

    https://weldingweb.com/showthread.ph...cale-zero-prep
    Last edited by MinnesotaDave; 06-17-2019 at 01:02 PM.
    Dave J.

    Beware of false knowledge; it is more dangerous than ignorance. ~George Bernard Shaw~

    Airco 300 - Syncro 350
    Invertec v250-s
    Thermal Arc 161 and 300
    MM210
    Dialarc
    Tried being normal once, didn't take....I think it was a Tuesday.

  22. #22
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    Re: Really thick steel TIG weld

    I would have gone hotter, but I didn't have any bigger tungstens and I'm still on the air cooled torch. Can you say smokin?

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    Miller 30A /S-52E feeders

  23. #23
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    Re: Really thick steel TIG weld

    Quote Originally Posted by 86turbodsl View Post
    I would have gone hotter, but I didn't have any bigger tungstens and I'm still on the air cooled torch. Can you say smokin?

    Sent from my LG-TP450 using Tapatalk
    Yeah, the big amps makes them hot for sure.
    Melted a couple 26 series torches before I went water cooled.

    Dropping the torch in a bucket of water works too.
    I draped mine over the Airco in the giant fan air stream, that method didn't cool fast enough for me...
    Dave J.

    Beware of false knowledge; it is more dangerous than ignorance. ~George Bernard Shaw~

    Airco 300 - Syncro 350
    Invertec v250-s
    Thermal Arc 161 and 300
    MM210
    Dialarc
    Tried being normal once, didn't take....I think it was a Tuesday.

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