Any new thoughts on bump welding?
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  1. #1
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    Any new thoughts on bump welding?

    I realize folks have been bump welding for years and it is a tried and true method. Why fix what ain't broke.

    My question is a little different. I was wondering if the advent of the latest inverter tech has led anyone to try different methods. Specifically I was thinking along the lines of Zanks Crazy settings or similar being used to replicate the HF arc burst of the traditional bump switch method.

    Just wondering if anyone has tried or thought about it. Might make for a fun conversation.
    Miller Dynasty 280 DX, Lincoln 210 MP

  2. #2
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    Re: Any new thoughts on bump welding?

    I don’t know if I’d call it crazy, more like resultant.

  3. #3
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    Re: Any new thoughts on bump welding?

    I didnt name it Zanks crazy settings, who ever wrote up his thread did, I think. I may have the title of that thread wrong though.
    Miller Dynasty 280 DX, Lincoln 210 MP

  4. #4
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    Re: Any new thoughts on bump welding?

    Can inverter machines even bump weld? I never tried it on one, but I always got the feeling they were kinda limp-wristed when it came to headroom, since they lack the big iron core and coffee-can caps of a transformer locomotive...

  5. #5
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    Re: Any new thoughts on bump welding?

    Quote Originally Posted by Kelvin View Post
    Can inverter machines even bump weld? I never tried it on one, but I always got the feeling they were kinda limp-wristed when it came to headroom, since they lack the big iron core and coffee-can caps of a transformer locomotive...
    Jody from weldingtipsandtricks has this to say: "like the old school Miller syncrowave 250 for most everything and I have been able to make it do just about anything I want to,,, but this is one application where the inverters just plain kick ***."
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  6. #6
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    Re: Any new thoughts on bump welding?

    If you've never used a decent quality inverter, I highly recommend that you try one out. Instantaneous punch

    Especially if you have a set that will pulse on AC... it's definitely the future. A 250 amp pulsed unit will weld 1/4" anodized aluminium no problems...

  7. #7
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    Re: Any new thoughts on bump welding?

    Quote Originally Posted by henry42 View Post
    Jody from weldingtipsandtricks has this to say: "like the old school Miller syncrowave 250 for most everything and I have been able to make it do just about anything I want to,,, but this is one application where the inverters just plain kick ***."
    Interesting, thanks. Never would have expected that to be the case.

  8. #8
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    Re: Any new thoughts on bump welding?

    [I realize folks have been bump welding for years and it is a tried and true method. Why fix what ain't broke.]

    They are going to outlaw bump welding, just like they did the gun stocks.
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  9. #9
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    Re: Any new thoughts on bump welding?

    Whats bump welding? I never heard of it, maybve Ive done it on my own and never gave it a name.

  10. #10
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    Re: Any new thoughts on bump welding?

    Quote Originally Posted by jakedaawg View Post
    I realize folks have been bump welding for years and it is a tried and true method. Why fix what ain't broke.

    My question is a little different. I was wondering if the advent of the latest inverter tech has led anyone to try different methods. Specifically I was thinking along the lines of Zanks Crazy settings or similar being used to replicate the HF arc burst of the traditional bump switch method.

    Just wondering if anyone has tried or thought about it. Might make for a fun conversation.
    Are you talking specifically about anodized aluminum with the AC TIG process, or do you mean other metals with other processes as well?
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  11. #11
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    Re: Any new thoughts on bump welding?

    Quote Originally Posted by Popeye an old miner View Post
    Whats bump welding? I never heard of it, maybve Ive done it on my own and never gave it a name.
    I didn't know what it means either



    I have no idea if this guy knows what he's doing,, but it looks like crap.

    Not the tacks/stack of dimes...………..

    But it seems the technique leaves a huge bridge beneath the weld. That root isn't coming near to filling...…..good sized void under there. That ain't welding far as I'm concerned.

    Big disclaimer here......I don't do TIG, and I don't do aluminum, so maybe I don't know what I'm saying.

  12. #12
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    Re: Any new thoughts on bump welding?

    I'm Mr Tig and this is tig time.....
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  13. #13
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    Re: Any new thoughts on bump welding?

    I wonder if that guy ever read the YouTube comments or read anything on this forum.

    The general consensus is he is a douche

    Although he does have some mediocre skills

    Just goes to show you
    If you are going to be giving advice or make instructional videos you better have something strong to bring to the table.

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  14. #14
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    Re: Any new thoughts on bump welding?

    It’s shout-out to my big friend Louie!

  15. #15
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    Re: Any new thoughts on bump welding?

    Quote Originally Posted by farmersammm View Post
    I didn't know what it means either



    I have no idea if this guy knows what he's doing,, but it looks like crap.

    Not the tacks/stack of dimes...………..

    But it seems the technique leaves a huge bridge beneath the weld. That root isn't coming near to filling...…..good sized void under there. That ain't welding far as I'm concerned.

    Big disclaimer here......I don't do TIG, and I don't do aluminum, so maybe I don't know what I'm saying.
    Yes your pretty close Sam. He was pretty much tig brazing. I’d be using those amps on a part that’s not even anodized. He said you need lots of amps and I’ve heard you need a lot. He said he was on 190-195 amps. I thought it was funny when he said the tube was 1 mill. I’m thinking that looks thicker then that, then he says it’s .150

  16. #16
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    Re: Any new thoughts on bump welding?

    Quote Originally Posted by motolife313 View Post
    Yes your pretty close Sam. He was pretty much tig brazing. I’d be using those amps on a part that’s not even anodized. He said you need lots of amps and I’ve heard you need a lot. He said he was on 190-195 amps. I thought it was funny when he said the tube was 1 mill. I’m thinking that looks thicker then that, then he says it’s .150
    he said 1 mil for the anodizing thickness,not the tube wall thickness.

  17. #17
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    Re: Any new thoughts on bump welding?

    That’s very thick. I don’t think it adds any thickness to the part

  18. #18
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    Re: Any new thoughts on bump welding?

    Anodizing does add thickness

  19. #19
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    Re: Any new thoughts on bump welding?

    type 2 anodizing (regular anodizing) can be as thick as 0.001"
    type 3 (hard coat anodizing) can add 2 thou. and more
    depends on method, temp,base alloy,voltage etc...

    most common is type 2 and when machining pre anodizing, this tolerance is taken into account if critical dimensions are required.
    Last edited by filetobeef; 07-11-2019 at 09:19 PM.

  20. #20
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    Re: Any new thoughts on bump welding?

    Mils is how In the U.S. the thickness of paint is expressed in mils (one mil equals 1/1000 of inch).


    I just copied that from google, just to clarify the term "mils".
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  21. #21
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    Re: Any new thoughts on bump welding?

    Quote Originally Posted by jakedaawg View Post
    I realize folks have been bump welding for years and it is a tried and true method. Why fix what ain't broke.

    My question is a little different. I was wondering if the advent of the latest inverter tech has led anyone to try different methods. Specifically I was thinking along the lines of Zank's Crazy settings or similar being used to replicate the HF arc burst of the traditional bump switch method.

    Just wondering if anyone has tried or thought about it. Might make for a fun conversation.
    Most inverter machines have the ability to raise the AC current EN along with the balance for penetration and minimal tungsten erosion. The thing with Zank's "Krazee" Program is the high balance and short burst of high EP coupled with a high freq to quicken the surface contaminant removal. That super short burst of EP is not enough to erode even the skinniest tungstens keeping a sharp profile. So if you raise your balance, you can offset by altering the amplitude with a low EN and high EP. It is really just a phenomenon that lifts the oxides and glazes the surface of the metal for an instantaneous filler addition. This lends itself to bump welding provided you have independent amplitude control. You can even engage a slow pulse if desired.

    To compare with Tranny tigs, the HF start sequence is nothing more than a short high burst of 50%/50% AC current to get the arc started. That burst does a good job of penetrating the anodize and may lift some contaminants off. There you can do bump welding.
    Weld like a "WELDOR", not a wel-"DERR"
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  22. #22
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    Re: Any new thoughts on bump welding?

    Quote Originally Posted by shovelon View Post
    Most inverter machines have the ability to raise the AC current EN along with the balance for penetration and minimal tungsten erosion. The thing with Zank's "Krazee" Program is the high balance and short burst of high EP coupled with a high freq to quicken the surface contaminant removal. That super short burst of EP is not enough to erode even the skinniest tungstens keeping a sharp profile. So if you raise your balance, you can offset by altering the amplitude with a low EN and high EP. It is really just a phenomenon that lifts the oxides and glazes the surface of the metal for an instantaneous filler addition. This lends itself to bump welding provided you have independent amplitude control. You can even engage a slow pulse if desired.

    To compare with Tranny tigs, the HF start sequence is nothing more than a short high burst of 50%/50% AC current to get the arc started. That burst does a good job of penetrating the anodize and may lift some contaminants off. There you can do bump welding.
    That's right along the lines of what I was thinking...maybe no need for a finger switch...I think I may buy the card for my 280 and experiment. I have been getting quite a few pontoon railings in lately. While my method works fine any improvement is always welcome.
    Miller Dynasty 280 DX, Lincoln 210 MP

  23. #23
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    Re: Any new thoughts on bump welding?

    Quote Originally Posted by jakedaawg View Post
    That's right along the lines of what I was thinking...maybe no need for a finger switch...I think I may buy the card for my 280 and experiment. I have been getting quite a few pontoon railings in lately. While my method works fine any improvement is always welcome.
    You should be able to program out the remote current and just use the remote contactor from your pedal. I have been using the SSC controls 4 step finger amptrol. They are a bargain in price and might be the ticket for you if you program out the remote current control.
    Weld like a "WELDOR", not a wel-"DERR"
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  24. #24
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    Re: Any new thoughts on bump welding?

    the independent amps EN/EP - that's something that I think up til recently only Miller had, with a patent on it... confirmed by a sales guy recently who had to admit some places would only take Dynasty's over the Lorch machines he usually sells as the "premium" offering, because of this feature.

    The Lincoln Aspect 300 has independent amps EN and EP, they did something funny to get around the patent I think. I've had a bit of a play with the Aspect at work but it's not my machine so i can't really spend the time finding out its capabilities.

    Zank's settings - for anyone who doesn't want to google:

    http://forum.weldingtipsandtricks.co...php?f=5&t=6391

    Basically if you don't have a Dynasty/Aspect of the right spec, you can't do what Zank was doing.

  25. #25
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    Re: Any new thoughts on bump welding?

    Quote Originally Posted by Munkul View Post
    the independent amps EN/EP - that's something that I think up til recently only Miller had, with a patent on it.

    Basically if you don't have a Dynasty/Aspect of the right spec, you can't do what Zank was doing.

    I beg to differ. Here in the US (and in Europe) there is one killer TIG machine in the 200A class that has independent amplitude on AC TIG welding, that doesn't cost what a Miller Dynasty 200/210dx costs. It's basically in a class of it's own. 220A, loaded AC TIG features, cheaper than a Miller, all while being just as stout if not more. Oh and it's been out since 2011.
    Last edited by Oscar; 07-16-2019 at 08:53 PM.
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