What will they think of next?? - Page 2
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  1. #26
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    Re: What will they think of next??

    For the uninformed here, the inner condulet is an "LB" and the outer condulet is a service "L". This instillation is a violation of the NEC as it does not allow the removal if the cover on the "LB" Probably the installer was either lazy and did not want to drill another hole in the masonry or did not have the tools to do so or possibly what ever was on the other side of the masonry did not allow enough space to put another conduit there. Still violation, but pretty inventive. "Get er done"! Bob
    Uups, just notices this is an electrical enclosure, not masonry wall. No room on the enclosure side so the installer was really not a competent electrician as his conduit run was not laid out properly. The sadness of this kind of workmanship is that it is throughout the industry. We really need trade schools with competent instructors and competent inspectors in the field! Bob
    Last edited by rhunt; 07-29-2019 at 04:29 PM.

  2. #27
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    Re: What will they think of next??

    Quote Originally Posted by rhunt View Post
    For the uninformed here, the inner condulet is an "LB" and the outer condulet is a service "L". This instillation is a violation of the NEC as it does not allow the removal if the cover on the "LB" Probably the installer was either lazy and did not want to drill another hole in the masonry or did not have the tools to do so or possibly what ever was on the other side of the masonry did not allow enough space to put another conduit there. Still violation, but pretty inventive. "Get er done"! Bob
    Uups, just notices this is an electrical enclosure, not masonry wall. No room on the enclosure side so the installer was really not a competent electrician as his conduit run was not laid out properly. The sadness of this kind of workmanship is that it is throughout the industry. We really need trade schools with competent instructors and competent inspectors in the field! Bob
    I thought just what you said at first look. It looked like a step in a concrete pour. Realized it was panel (or some enclosure). His only choice without removing the first one was to come up under the panel with another LB or similar. Or he should have came out of top with myers hub or it may take a bolt on hub on the top. He didn't have a good plan from end to end for sure and full of Romex besides.

    Some just do whatever it takes to make it work for now and since no inspection it goes that way for years until someone loads up those circuits one day and has a meltdown of them in the pipe.
    Last edited by danielplace; 07-29-2019 at 10:23 PM.

  3. #28
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    Re: What will they think of next??

    Yes it is an all in one and the right side is jammed into a corner and the lid will not even open more than 30 degrees before it hits a window sill, we had to unscrew the lid to work in it. The home owner said when they bought the house (built in 1919) all is had were 4 edison fuses in the closet and a knife switch outside. They hired a guy to do it all, so evidently he installed both of those conduits. no unistrut either, he used 2X4s. I don't know how he got the service passed unless he did it without a permit. We did not examine any of the re-wiring he did inside the house and not sure I'd want to.
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  4. #29
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    Re: What will they think of next??

    Unless a conduit/nipple is over 24" long it is not considered bundling, but any location outdoors, or underground, is a wet location, and NM cable "Romex®" is allowed in dry locations only.

  5. #30
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    Re: What will they think of next??

    Yep, need to switch to UF Romex® when going outdoors.

  6. #31
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    Re: What will they think of next??

    Actually bundling is common practice, legal, and approved in code. We see hundreds of conductors in conduit heavily derated. I'm thinking of one industrial application with 2-1/2" EMT conduit stuffed to the 40% max with a staggering number of red #14 THHN conductors. All are supplied by one 10 amp breaker.

    In my youth, and for the first 15 years of my job "Romex" was 60 degree C cable. Since 1985 it has been 90 degree C. Still (with exceptions) #14 is limited to 15 amp fusing, #12-20 Amp, #10- 30 amp. This allows for some bundling of romex (NM-B), and some crowding of single conductors in conduit.

    Modular home manufacturers aren't about to hire electricians when they easily hire people fired from Mc Donalds. They drop a cable from each box in the manufactured home to a common chase. The rare inspector enforcing NEC rules will find that each cable is upsized to compensate for bundling heat.

    I have argued that in an installation where maximum power is limited by a main, service disconnect, or feeder overcurrent device, bundling is less a concern. In a home, where service limits amperage to 100 amps, there is no risk that 20 thru 2000 #12 conductors will carry more than 200 amps total. 100 amps outgoing, 100 amps incoming. Code does not agree with me.
    An optimist is usually wrong, and when the unexpected happens is unprepared. A pessimist is usually right, when wrong, is delighted, and well prepared.

  7. #32
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    Re: What will they think of next??

    NEC frowns on creativity!!!!! All components of an electrical installation must be "approved" for the application. All of the inspectors I know of are looking for UL or another accredited testing lab. In a creative application they look to the fine print that explains the approval sticker. IE: DWV plumbing pipe is UL approved, but not for electrical conduit.
    An optimist is usually wrong, and when the unexpected happens is unprepared. A pessimist is usually right, when wrong, is delighted, and well prepared.

  8. #33
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    Re: What will they think of next??

    In 1969 we drilled holes in floor joists to run cables as large as the structural engineering allowed. If joists were big, we drilled 1-1/2" holes. For a residence, three holes were plenty.

    Since "bundling rules" we drill as many as 15 7/8" holes. It works out to 9 conductors (4 Romex, NM-B cables) per hole.
    An optimist is usually wrong, and when the unexpected happens is unprepared. A pessimist is usually right, when wrong, is delighted, and well prepared.

  9. #34
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    Re: What will they think of next??

    Quote Originally Posted by Willie B View Post
    In 1969 we drilled holes in floor joists to run cables as large as the structural engineering allowed. If joists were big, we drilled 1-1/2" holes. For a residence, three holes were plenty.

    Since "bundling rules" we drill as many as 15 7/8" holes. It works out to 9 conductors (4 Romex, NM-B cables) per hole.
    They're only allowing 3 Romexes per hole here....maybe because they don't want to check each hole for a multiwire. The top plate above the sub panel now looks like Swiss cheese. I keep a stock of 1/8" steel 2" wide and cut my own nail plates to fit the entire length. Those are not listed or approved but I always get a nod of "approval" from the inspectors.
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  10. #35
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    Re: What will they think of next??

    Quote Originally Posted by bigb View Post
    They're only allowing 3 Romexes per hole here....maybe because they don't want to check each hole for a multiwire. The top plate above the sub panel now looks like Swiss cheese. I keep a stock of 1/8" steel 2" wide and cut my own nail plates to fit the entire length. Those are not listed or approved but I always get a nod of "approval" from the inspectors.
    #12 is rated 30 amps. Table 310.15(B)(3)(a). 9 conductors 70%. 70% of 30 is 21. We sometimes use 12/2/2 that'd be 2 cables per bundle. Your inspectors might consider ambient heat as a factor. We only worry about that in attics, or furnace rooms.

    We seem to see both wooden joists 2x12. and TJI engineered wooden I beams 14" tall. I use chalk line, and speed square to mark 4" apart just above center line to avoid compromising the strength of the joist. Makes a neat job, and if you plan to keep a cable in the same line of holes it is pretty fast. I also use chimney blocks and 2x12 planks to make a simple staging. walking on planks is a great deal easier than moving a step ladder a thousand times.

    I also mount a panel between two studs. Cross blocks are drilled in pattern to match the knock out pattern in the panel. I don't really like plastic NM connectors. The only zinc ones I've found rated for 2 cables is Arlington 841, they are narrow enough they don't interfere side by side.
    An optimist is usually wrong, and when the unexpected happens is unprepared. A pessimist is usually right, when wrong, is delighted, and well prepared.

  11. #36
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    Re: What will they think of next??

    Oh yeah.....we see it all......
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  12. #37
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    Re: What will they think of next??

    That's gonna fail. Looks like common replacement. You could make a groment if no inspection but looks like a good place for spiders to harbinate.

  13. #38
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    Re: What will they think of next??

    Quote Originally Posted by Insaneride View Post
    That's gonna fail. Looks like common replacement. You could make a groment if no inspection but looks like a good place for spiders to harbinate.
    I just flipped my breaker, shook my head and left.
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  14. #39
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    Re: What will they think of next??

    Quote Originally Posted by bigb View Post
    I just flipped my breaker, shook my head and left.
    I just finished a fire damage. Someone made sheet metal panel breaker cover because the one that came with was gone. Inspectors said,"needs ul approved". I would replace your dilemma with exterior mount. Looks like square D. Spiders are a nuisance.

  15. #40
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    Re: What will they think of next??

    Quote Originally Posted by Insaneride View Post
    I just finished a fire damage. Someone made sheet metal panel breaker cover because the one that came with was gone. Inspectors said,"needs ul approved". I would replace your dilemma with exterior mount. Looks like square D. Spiders are a nuisance.

    A inspector cannot require a UL listing, could be sued for that, code requires that most products be listed, UL is just one of many NRTL'S, Nationally Recognized Testing Laboratories, CSA, ETL, are a couple of others.

  16. #41
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    Re: What will they think of next??

    Question for you “Lectritions”

    What is this switch normally used for ?

    My sister works for a trailer place that throws out a lot of good stuff

    I always tell her to grab me anything that looks interesting or valuable

    https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/201...b5c620e892.jpg
    https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/201...fc797f8169.jpg
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  17. #42
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    Re: What will they think of next??

    Quote Originally Posted by John T View Post
    Question for you “Lectritions”

    What is this switch normally used for ?

    My sister works for a trailer place that throws out a lot of good stuff

    I always tell her to grab me anything that looks interesting or valuable

    https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/201...b5c620e892.jpg
    https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/201...fc797f8169.jpg
    https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/201...61a49de4af.jpg


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro

    Could be used anywhere you need to protect a 150 amp circuit. Could be used in a main or sub panel or commercial or industrial applications.

    They are $270 bux at Home Depot.

    https://www.homedepot.com/p/Square-D...2150/303196153
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  18. #43
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    Re: What will they think of next??

    Quote Originally Posted by Fast Leroy View Post
    Could be used anywhere you need to protect a 150 amp circuit. Could be used in a main or sub panel or commercial or industrial applications.

    They are $270 bux at Home Depot.

    https://www.homedepot.com/p/Square-D...2150/303196153
    Thanks Leroy.

    I’ll take 100 bucks shipped.

    LoL!


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  19. #44
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    Re: What will they think of next??

    Quote Originally Posted by John T View Post
    Question for you “Lectritions”

    What is this switch normally used for ?

    My sister works for a trailer place that throws out a lot of good stuff

    I always tell her to grab me anything that looks interesting or valuable

    https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/201...b5c620e892.jpg
    https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/201...fc797f8169.jpg
    https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/201...61a49de4af.jpg


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro
    Again a testing laboratoy must approve it paired with its enclosure. I have a 200 amp one with approved enclosure on the power pole at the road on my house. Mine is getting rusty.
    An optimist is usually wrong, and when the unexpected happens is unprepared. A pessimist is usually right, when wrong, is delighted, and well prepared.

  20. #45
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    Re: What will they think of next??

    Quote Originally Posted by bigb View Post
    Oh yeah.....we see it all......
    There ought to be a law! Oh wait, there is!
    An optimist is usually wrong, and when the unexpected happens is unprepared. A pessimist is usually right, when wrong, is delighted, and well prepared.

  21. #46
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    Re: What will they think of next??

    UL and other NRTL's, do not approve anything they list it. Red flag when a product says they are "UL Approved" most likely a counterfeit ChiCom item. See the definition of listed in NEC art 100.

  22. #47
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    Re: What will they think of next??

    Dominican Republic... Just one of the many pictures I took....
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  23. #48
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    Re: What will they think of next??

    Quote Originally Posted by kbeitz View Post
    Dominican Republic... Just one of the many pictures I took....
    One of Edison's early systems ran 90 volts DC. Lighting was not very energy efficient, motors must have been barely functional. Wires had to be big. Some was underground. Overhead wires were a snarl as thousands of wires might hang from a single pole. Jill Jonnes writes of an incident where a lineman was electrocuted, and hung in the tangle of wires for days because nobody knew where some were powered from. in the end generators, (or "dynamos") had to be shut down to extract the body.
    An optimist is usually wrong, and when the unexpected happens is unprepared. A pessimist is usually right, when wrong, is delighted, and well prepared.

  24. #49
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    Re: What will they think of next??

    When it rains it pours I guess....this one is from Friday's job, I'll just call it "Monkey see, monkey do"
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  25. #50
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    Re: What will they think of next??

    Quote Originally Posted by John T View Post
    Question for you “Lectritions”

    What is this switch normally used for ?

    My sister works for a trailer place that throws out a lot of good stuff

    I always tell her to grab me anything that looks interesting or valuable

    https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/201...b5c620e892.jpg
    https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/201...fc797f8169.jpg
    https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/201...61a49de4af.jpg


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro
    I'm no licttricion but I've been electricuted. I'm more of electricution.

    That's a 150 amp breaker, Probly special application where 150 whomping amps needed. You could use it to feed sub panel or big welder. I estimate a dollar per amp so that would be at least a hundred and fifty dollar breaker if you need it.

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