Older stick welders vs. new DC inverter stick welder: which to choose? - Page 3
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  1. #51
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    Re: Older stick welders vs. new DC inverter stick welder: which to choose?

    Quote Originally Posted by M J D View Post
    I would go with a 160-200 amp DC inverter. Much lighter and easier to move around and you don't need 60 amps or more to run it. Many of us started out with an AC buzzbox and upgraded, for a reason. DC just runs so much smoother. IMO , going back to a transformer machine would be like going from a modern pickup truck to an ox cart .

    some ox carts performed very well...

    https://www.cia.gov/news-information....jpg/image.jpg

    no argument on wanting D/C capability on any arc welder.
    A/C is also nice in a pinch when old magnetized steel causes a bunch of arc blow
    Last edited by 455dan; 08-03-2019 at 01:10 AM.
    1962 Idealarc Tig 300 300
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  2. #52
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    Re: Older stick welders vs. new DC inverter stick welder: which to choose?

    Hey, I just wanted to check in and thank everyone for the responses. I still have my feelers out, seeing if I can find a bargain in a reliable older transformer welder, and learning more about what meets my wants/needs without being overkill. I'll make a decision next week.

    Most of what I have found seems to be either not quite enough welder (AC 225 Buzzbox or smaller) or too big (industrial stuff, usually 3 phase). I'm getting the specs on a single phase A.O. Smith AC/DC unit today, but it may be too big also. Thanks for all you've taught me so far.

  3. #53
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    Re: Older stick welders vs. new DC inverter stick welder: which to choose?

    Quote Originally Posted by Arc Traveler View Post
    Hey, I just wanted to check in and thank everyone for the responses. I still have my feelers out, seeing if I can find a bargain in a reliable older transformer welder, and learning more about what meets my wants/needs without being overkill. I'll make a decision next week.

    Most of what I have found seems to be either not quite enough welder (AC 225 Buzzbox or smaller) or too big (industrial stuff, usually 3 phase). I'm getting the specs on a single phase A.O. Smith AC/DC unit today, but it may be too big also. Thanks for all you've taught me so far.
    I like old machines and modern Inverters. It's very hard for a transformer to match my Lincoln Invertec v250-s.
    My 900 lb Airco does for 7018, but not quite as smooth for 6010.

    Some good welders have recommended this machine as a good basic inverter.

    https://www.northerntool.com/shop/to...BoCVvQQAvD_BwE

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    Dave J.

    Beware of false knowledge; it is more dangerous than ignorance. ~George Bernard Shaw~

    Airco 300 - Syncro 350
    Invertec v250-s
    Thermal Arc 161 and 300
    MM210
    Dialarc
    Tried being normal once, didn't take....I think it was a Tuesday.

  4. #54
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    Re: Older stick welders vs. new DC inverter stick welder: which to choose?

    Quote Originally Posted by MinnesotaDave View Post
    I like old machines and modern Inverters. It's very hard for a transformer to match my Lincoln Invertec v250-s.
    My 900 lb Airco does for 7018, but not quite as smooth for 6010.

    Some good welders have recommended this machine as a good basic inverter.

    https://www.northerntool.com/shop/to...BoCVvQQAvD_BwE

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    That's a pretty good price on that klutch. A 200 amp machine would be nice when the need arises to use 5/32" 7018
    Miller xmt304, Miller S22 p12, Miier Maxstar SD, Miller 252 w 30A, Miller super32p12, Lincoln Ranger 9, Thermal Arc 181I with spoolgun, Hypertherm 10000 ,Smith torches. Esab 161lts miniarc.

  5. #55
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    May 2017
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    Re: Older stick welders vs. new DC inverter stick welder: which to choose?

    That Klutch is a nice start up welder. It will require an upgrade if the OP wants to continue welding but at least he can get started out of the box. A used transformer starts out cheap but there are a lot of hidden costs and potential problems that might cause delays and expensive fixes.


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  6. #56
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    Re: Older stick welders vs. new DC inverter stick welder: which to choose?

    Quote Originally Posted by jeffrey.penfield View Post
    A used transformer starts out cheap but there are a lot of hidden costs and potential problems that might cause delays and expensive fixes.
    Such as...?

  7. #57
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    Re: Older stick welders vs. new DC inverter stick welder: which to choose?

    Quote Originally Posted by Kelvin View Post
    Such as...?
    Running a larger electrical feed to run one.
    Miller xmt304, Miller S22 p12, Miier Maxstar SD, Miller 252 w 30A, Miller super32p12, Lincoln Ranger 9, Thermal Arc 181I with spoolgun, Hypertherm 10000 ,Smith torches. Esab 161lts miniarc.

  8. #58
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    Re: Older stick welders vs. new DC inverter stick welder: which to choose?

    Quote Originally Posted by Kelvin View Post
    Such as...?
    Not coming with leads or stinger or ground clamp. Transporting it or shipping 500 or more pounds of welder. Moving it into position when you get it home. You may need to build a rolling base for it.


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  9. #59
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    n.w. of chicago
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    Re: Older stick welders vs. new DC inverter stick welder: which to choose?

    Quote Originally Posted by M J D View Post
    You are pretty uniformed when it comes to welding machines. I apparently hit a nerve to those who have yet to see the light. My XMT, which by the way is an inverter, will outperform a Lincoln idealarc or Miller dialarc any day of the week there bud. It will also do it on a 50 amp 230 volt circuit . Perhaps understanding what the fluck your talking about may help your cause.
    You are correct sir, it's easy to argue on the interweb and I noticed most do lately, the XMT is bullet proof almost, I've watched the same machines chained to columns for years on end in all kinds of conditions, still we were running some xmt300s the old pow cons off shoot, and as mentioned the Invertec 350 were awesome although I used those way less, my personal maxstar 152 is 1996 and aerowave is 2000 and xmt304 is 2003 and recently sold dynasty 200 was 2003, they never skipped a beat and kept on chugging,

  10. #60
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    Re: Older stick welders vs. new DC inverter stick welder: which to choose?

    Inverters are here to stay, and their advantages keep growing as their disadvantages continue to mostly diminish (cost per cost comparison over a comparable transformer machine).

    IMO It won't be long before the argument will be completely moot IMO (like guitar amps modeled vs tubed/chipped, they're also getting there) but for now the transformer welders still have the advantage of longevity. Arc quality is up for debate as it is a taste - but just about anyone that has used a great inverter must agree the difference is minimal.

    Funny thing is chances are most of the power you're using is generated from something spinning a magnet, water steam engine driven etc. It's easy to see why engine drive arc quality is still comparable to anything in the foreseeable future - basically just cutting out the middle man and making the juice yourself at the source.

    I'm a big fan of those little lunchbox welders from the more reputable names also, and they just keep getting better and cheaper. The convenience is unbelievable really, you'll wonder why you didn't buy one sooner. Taking the welder to the work (with an extension cord often) really keeps the price low in addition to the convenience factor.
    Last edited by SlowBlues; 08-03-2019 at 09:26 PM.

  11. #61
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    Sep 2016
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    Re: Older stick welders vs. new DC inverter stick welder: which to choose?

    Quote Originally Posted by jeffrey.penfield View Post
    Not coming with leads or stinger or ground clamp. Transporting it or shipping 500 or more pounds of welder. Moving it into position when you get it home. You may need to build a rolling base for it.
    If you buy one with missing leads, stinger or ground clamp it's not exactly a "hidden cost". Just don't buy one with missing parts and that's not an issue. Make sure you see it weld and the chances of an expensive problem are slim. 500 pounds? The OP wasn't talking about anything nearly that big. My Miller Dialarc 250s are only 350lbs and that's a pretty big machine for most hobbyists. Most of the recommendations have been for things like a Thunderbolt XL which is around 125lbs...put it on an $8 small moving dolly from Harbor Freight and you're set.

    As far as running a separate power feed, even the little Esab 161 that has been mentioned is going to need 30 amp service to get full use out of it. The Thunderbolt XL or AC/DC models call for something like 47 amps, but I ran one a bunch on a 40A circuit with no problems, and even tested the Dialarc up to 200 amps on that same feed....no problems. Hard to imagine that being a huge issue for anybody.
    Check out my bench vise website:
    http://mivise.com


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  12. #62
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    Re: Older stick welders vs. new DC inverter stick welder: which to choose?

    I agree not a hidden cost - though it is a BIG cost. When half your budget is spent on cable and not machine - well you tend to get half the machine for the same cost. It does all depend on "location location location" though as far as what's available, and a whole lotta luck. People out here in southern california all think copper is gold bc of the scrap thieves, and it's nearly impossible to get a good deal on anything with decent leads.

  13. #63
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    Re: Older stick welders vs. new DC inverter stick welder: which to choose?

    Plus,,,, 120V operation is a thing of beauty.

  14. #64
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    Re: Older stick welders vs. new DC inverter stick welder: which to choose?

    Quote Originally Posted by Sberry View Post
    Plus,,,, 120V operation is a thing of beauty.
    True, as the inverter technology continues to advance, higher amperage can be obtained from a 120 volt circuit. While 120 volt can only do so much, being able to run a 3/32" 7018 and in some cases 1/8" off a 120 circuit is huge.
    Miller xmt304, Miller S22 p12, Miier Maxstar SD, Miller 252 w 30A, Miller super32p12, Lincoln Ranger 9, Thermal Arc 181I with spoolgun, Hypertherm 10000 ,Smith torches. Esab 161lts miniarc.

  15. #65
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    Re: Older stick welders vs. new DC inverter stick welder: which to choose?

    Quote Originally Posted by M J D View Post
    True, as the inverter technology continues to advance, higher amperage can be obtained from a 120 volt circuit. While 120 volt can only do so much, being able to run a 3/32" 7018 and in some cases 1/8" off a 120 circuit is huge.
    Yep, my Thermal Arc 161 runs a 3/32" 7018 quite well on 120v.

    I mostly use it for portable tig though.

    But when I stick weld with it, it does a fine job
    Dave J.

    Beware of false knowledge; it is more dangerous than ignorance. ~George Bernard Shaw~

    Airco 300 - Syncro 350
    Invertec v250-s
    Thermal Arc 161 and 300
    MM210
    Dialarc
    Tried being normal once, didn't take....I think it was a Tuesday.

  16. #66
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    Re: Older stick welders vs. new DC inverter stick welder: which to choose?

    Quote Originally Posted by MinnesotaDave View Post
    Yep, my Thermal Arc 161 runs a 3/32" 7018 quite well on 120v.

    I mostly use it for portable tig though.

    But when I stick weld with it, it does a fine job
    If I recall the thermal arc unit draws less amps than the esab unit.
    Miller xmt304, Miller S22 p12, Miier Maxstar SD, Miller 252 w 30A, Miller super32p12, Lincoln Ranger 9, Thermal Arc 181I with spoolgun, Hypertherm 10000 ,Smith torches. Esab 161lts miniarc.

  17. #67
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    Re: Older stick welders vs. new DC inverter stick welder: which to choose?

    Aw Hell...…………...y'all got me motivated to start up the MQ. Been sitting in the weeds since I bought it.

    Took a look at it today...……….coolant ok, minimal rat sht in the innards, and a bit of rust in the tank. I should be shot for letting it sit so long.

    http://www.multiquip.com/multiquip/DLW300ESA.htm

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    Weld circles around all the crap y'all been discussin'. Here I was thinkin' about Dialarcs, Idealarcs, and I gotta nice machine just sitting there for over 4 years. Doggone forgot about it.

    Can throw that inverter crap in the trash where it belongs.

  18. #68
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    Re: Older stick welders vs. new DC inverter stick welder: which to choose?

    Pearls before Swine...……………..A decade ago, I wouldn't have been up to a nice machine. Woulda been a waste. Now I can appreciate one, and I intend to get the ol' gal up and runnin'

    Was gonna flip it, and Thank God, I forgot it was sitting out there. Sure, I remember it once in a while, but it's not a real high priority.

    NOTHING beats a good generator welder, and the guys that run 'em know. All this discussion is apples 'n oranges...…….gonna hit the switch on that little Kubota.

  19. #69
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    Re: Older stick welders vs. new DC inverter stick welder: which to choose?

    ENGINE DRIVE

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    Sometime around 2012. Still had a reasonably good arm. And I ain't no F'n hobbyist.

  20. #70
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    Re: Older stick welders vs. new DC inverter stick welder: which to choose?

    That's weld porn there!


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    Steve

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  21. #71
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    Re: Older stick welders vs. new DC inverter stick welder: which to choose?

    Is it a generator?

  22. #72
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    Re: Older stick welders vs. new DC inverter stick welder: which to choose?

    Quote Originally Posted by farmersammm View Post
    ENGINE DRIVE

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    Sometime around 2012. Still had a reasonably good arm. And I ain't no F'n hobbyist.
    Which is worse? To be called a hobby welder or farm welder?


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  23. #73
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    Re: Older stick welders vs. new DC inverter stick welder: which to choose?

    Quote Originally Posted by M J D View Post
    If I recall the thermal arc unit draws less amps than the esab unit.
    That's correct - the my Thermal Arc machine is power factor corrected where the ESAB unit is not.

    Doesn't really matter much since neither draw much power really
    Dave J.

    Beware of false knowledge; it is more dangerous than ignorance. ~George Bernard Shaw~

    Airco 300 - Syncro 350
    Invertec v250-s
    Thermal Arc 161 and 300
    MM210
    Dialarc
    Tried being normal once, didn't take....I think it was a Tuesday.

  24. #74
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    Re: Older stick welders vs. new DC inverter stick welder: which to choose?

    Carburetor or fuel injection? I'll take modern technology anyday. People wonder why they struggle learning to weld but yet they have the cheapest welder they can get. If your serious about this then save up and buy something worthwhile. At home a Miller Dynasty and a Miller 211 handle all my chores with style and class. In my line of work it's strictly inverters. Transformers are big overweight outdated pos.

  25. #75
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    Re: Older stick welders vs. new DC inverter stick welder: which to choose?

    Quote Originally Posted by Showdog75 View Post
    Carburetor or fuel injection? I'll take modern technology anyday. People wonder why they struggle learning to weld but yet they have the cheapest welder they can get. If your serious about this then save up and buy something worthwhile. At home a Miller Dynasty and a Miller 211 handle all my chores with style and class. In my line of work it's strictly inverters. Transformers are big overweight outdated pos.
    A Miller dynasty is a $6000+machine. The OP won’t ever buy that. The comparison is between a really low end inverter and an old transformer and I am thoroughly convinced the old transformer is far, far superior, but obviously it can’t keep up with your dynasty.



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