You Seen My Pin?????????????????? - Page 3
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  1. #51
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    Re: You Seen My Pin??????????????????

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    Name:  pin36.JPG
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Size:  217.4 KB Tight, but enough room for grease.

    Finish it out tomorrow.

  2. #52
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    Re: You Seen My Pin??????????????????

    Nice work... I like it.
    F-225 amp Forney AC Stick
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    Les

  3. #53
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    Re: You Seen My Pin??????????????????

    Quote Originally Posted by whtbaron View Post
    Nice work... I like it.
    Well, I dunno……………...up against another wall.

  4. #54
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    Re: You Seen My Pin??????????????????

    Size the blanks, and measure for clearance

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    Cut out the inside for fit. (Yeah, I missed my mark on a hole , but it didn't ruin the part luckily)

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    So...…...here's where we're going...…….

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    The original part.

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    Now, this is where I take a step back, and start to ask some questions

    The new part has been upsized about 50% on the vertical supports. The skinny side supports.

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    But, I'm wondering if I'm using the wrong material New part is A-36, and I'm not sure if it's got the nutz to hold the load. I have this nagging little dooooood in the back of my mind that's telling me that I might be dealing with something other than 36Ksi steel here.

  5. #55
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    Re: You Seen My Pin??????????????????

    I ran the numbers.

    A-36:

    .375 plate x 1.00" = .375 square inches of material in each part. .375 x 36000 = 13500psi total tensile strength on each hanger. Divide that by 4 for an overload factor...………………….13500/4 = 3375psi tensile per hanger with safety factor. 6000psi combined between both hangers.

    I believe the drawbar is rated at around 2K maybe But it just doesn't look right

    It appears, and I'm not sure...…..that the original hangers were stamped/punched.

    Name:  pin45.JPG
Views: 583
Size:  195.0 KB You can see what appears to be a punch tear on the corner. And, the sides of the hangers are not square......leading one to believe they were stamped.

    Now...…….if'n they were stamped, they might not be any kind of exotic steel. Not sure, but I'm assuming any of the alloys would be hard on a stamping press. And, I'm not sure whether they were cold formed, or formed while semi soft in the heated state. The nub on original part seems to be almost a remnant of molten metal.
    Last edited by farmersammm; 09-16-2019 at 08:06 PM.

  6. #56
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    Re: You Seen My Pin??????????????????

    File test yields no conclusive results. And drilling this thing, compared to mild steel, seems to require about the same effort.

  7. #57
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    Re: You Seen My Pin??????????????????

    Almost forgot to explain the wear plates.

    The drawbar is made out of some sorta metal that defies regular machining. Dulled a cutter on it almost from the get go.

    This next step was probably unnecessary, so take it with a grain of salt.

    I felt that the gaps should be filled. This would make for a solid base for the wear plate to ride on. The wear plate is only 1/4 thick.

    So, the points that were worn on the bar were filled.

    Name:  pin46.JPG
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Size:  237.7 KB The gaps were lightly ground to give a tooth for the epoxy, then the filler strips were fitted to the gaps.

    Whole mess glued up with JB Weld. It's as good as any epoxy. And, given the reaction of the drawbar to machining...……….it's not something ya wanna weld on. It's probably a forged tempered piece. Stay away from it with the welder!

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    The filler strips were then ground flush with the drawbar. BIG WORD OF CAUTION HERE...………………...JB WELD DOESN'T LIKE EXCESSIVE HEAT......THE HEAT GENERATED BY THE GRINDER SOFTENED THE BOND, AND IT HAD TO BE RE DONE BEFORE FINAL ASSEMBLY

    Then, the bottom of the drawbar was fitted for a wear plate. The plate was also epoxied.

    Name:  pin50.JPG
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Size:  223.3 KB This surface is only under a compressive load. No shear, or any other kind of stress. It's just a wear plate. We're just trying to restore the original geometry to the assembly.

  8. #58
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    Re: You Seen My Pin??????????????????

    The top wear bar on the drawbar support was just a piece of plate traced, and rough cut with the plasmatron. Then re-mounted to grind it to a perfect fit. Seems like overkill (the grinding), but it's the surface that the roller runs on, and the arc, and its associated clearance around the arc, is important.

    Name:  pin48.JPG
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Size:  211.8 KB You can see the final fitup in the earlier posts. The dimensions of the wear plate are controlled by the width of the roller.

  9. #59
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    Re: You Seen My Pin??????????????????

    Figured a way to get around the weak verticals.

    Cut some parts to fit on the drawbar.

    Name:  pin51.JPG
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Size:  207.2 KB Originally, I was just gonna weld some crossmembers on the vertical supports...…...this allows me to tie in to the vertical sides, and main plate.

    Name:  pin52.JPG
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Size:  230.4 KB The main plates are hung from the support, ready for indexing. The problem is that there was no way to figure out where the underside of the hangers would have to be. You could do a lot of fancy math, but you'd be wrong. You gotta build out from the tractor. The pin looks long because I didn't install the lockwashers for fitup.

    The drawbar is then raised to the position it will live in.

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Size:  248.0 KB The cutout pieces can slide up to match the desired height.

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Size:  225.2 KB I'm at my desired clearance under the drawbar support.

  10. #60
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    Re: You Seen My Pin??????????????????

    It's up in the 90's, and I'm gettin' more pizzed by the minute. I can't get the stinkin' plasma to run for sh&t. I'm needing to hit marks, and because of that, I have to run slow. The stinkin' thing doesn't like to run slow on the 3/8 plate. I'm just about to shoot the dam machine, and get out the real torch

    So, I can now move the cutouts to fit tight on the underside of the drawbar. I've established my running height.

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Size:  237.5 KB Once the parts are snug against the underside of the drawbar, they can be clamped for tacking.

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Size:  212.0 KB Can't do this with MIG Easy way to get around the backside to tack.

    Remove all the crap, and take it to the workbench.

    The sides are beveled for a partial pen weld. This ties the verticals to the cutout. I've doubled my vertical thickness, and doubled the strength.

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    The cutouts are then fully welded. The verts are good, and the weld on top of the cutouts transfers the load to the main plate.

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Size:  205.2 KB The crossmember in the back is to balance the load so it bears in a true 90* angle to the hanger pin. It also spreads out the future damage to the wear plate.

    So, except for lopping off the ears on the hanger for cosmetic sake,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,it's a done deal. AND NONE TOO SOON...……….I'M FED UP WITH IT, AND I'M FED UP WITH THAT STINKIN' PLASMA POS. Damn thing used to cut reasonably well, but it's puked its guts lately. Probably the short slow cuts. This is more suitable to a plasma table. I'd a' been happier if I had milled the whole damn thing. I'm very unhappy with this job.

  11. #61
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    Re: You Seen My Pin??????????????????

    Dammmmmit………………...with a torch, you just turn on the gas, and cut with the damn thing!!!!!

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  12. #62
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    Re: You Seen My Pin??????????????????

    Sam once you get as many years with a plasma as with the torch you will appreciate it more. I seldom use the torch for normal cutting. When it comes to cutting bearings or bushings out then I use the torch.
    Millermatic 252
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    If it dont fit get a bigger hammer

  13. #63
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    Re: You Seen My Pin??????????????????

    No plasma here yet, but I'd sure like to try one. I ran into similar issues as you when I tried to do things with the chunk of leftover broken drawbar. You can cut it on a bandsaw, but drilling it is nearly impossible no matter what kind of bits you have. I'll have to take a pic of the John Deere support for you... it might be something you'd be interested in copying.
    Oh... by the way... I finally got so mad about my missing hex sockets that I bought a new set. As soon as I came home I moved a wrench tray on my service cart and there they were. You should find your missing tractor pieces soon.
    Last edited by whtbaron; 09-19-2019 at 11:12 PM.
    F-225 amp Forney AC Stick
    230 amp Sears AC Stick
    Lincoln 180C MIG
    Victor Medalist 350 O/A

    Les

  14. #64
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    Re: You Seen My Pin??????????????????

    Guys, I'm thinking that I'm running too small of a standoff distance.

    Manual recommends 1/8-3/8". I'm running at 1/8.

    I read somewhere that voltage increases as standoff distance decreases. Ragged cuts, and increased bevel, can result from too much voltage...….so the article said. And I can't find the stupid article again, so I may be dead wrong.

    This may be why I'm tearing up cutting tips so often. The holes get rounded, and the tip gets splashed by molten metal.

    So...…….it seems that the stupid things are somewhat like a wire welder. Stickout distance (in this case standoff distance) matters a great deal.

    For a mechanized torch, on a plasma table I guess...…….the manual calls out .19 standoff at 60amps for mild steel. This yields a cutting speed of 34 IPM on 3/8 plate. When piercing, the specs show .20 standoff.

  15. #65
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    Re: You Seen My Pin??????????????????

    sammm, not trying to be contrary but : typically, increase of spark gap increases voltage. A decrease in standoff needs less voltage for plasma. Plasma is the ionization of the air. Somewhere it's written that it takes x amount of volts to arc in dry air for a given distance. I think NIST has a the numbers. Have you considered using Nitrogen with your plasma? The pro of Nitrogen is its dry and should help your consumables. The cons, you need Nitrogen and you don't get the exothermic boost from oxygen in the air.

    BTW, thanks for showing pics and stuf.

  16. #66
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    Re: You Seen My Pin??????????????????

    Doubl post

  17. #67
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    Re: You Seen My Pin??????????????????

    Quote Originally Posted by Insaneride View Post
    sammm, not trying to be contrary but : typically, increase of spark gap increases voltage. A decrease in standoff needs less voltage for plasma. Plasma is the ionization of the air. Somewhere it's written that it takes x amount of volts to arc in dry air for a given distance. I think NIST has a the numbers. Have you considered using Nitrogen with your plasma? The pro of Nitrogen is its dry and should help your consumables. The cons, you need Nitrogen and you don't get the exothermic boost from oxygen in the air.

    BTW, thanks for showing pics and stuf.
    After doing some experimenting, you might just be right. I dunno……….have no way of measuring voltage, but what you say sounds reasonable. I might have mis-read the article.

  18. #68
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    Re: You Seen My Pin??????????????????

    STANDOFF

    3/8 plate. 60amps. .175 standoff. (I started at .190, and worked my way down to .125...……...175 gave the best cut)

    Name:  pin59.JPG
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Size:  207.5 KB .175-3/8. Nice top line

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Size:  199.9 KB Relatively clean cut. I don't mind slag. All I care about is dimensions.

    Name:  pin62.JPG
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Size:  194.7 KB You can see the large amount of slag...…..this comes from running slow, which I prefer. It pops off with a touch of a chipping hammer, leaving a clean edge.

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Size:  204.5 KB THIS IS WHAT I CARE ABOUT...…….I NEED SQUARE EDGES FOR FITUP, AND LAYOUT

  19. #69
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    Re: You Seen My Pin??????????????????

    1/2 plate. 60amps. .125 standoff. Same drill...…...started high, and worked my way down to .125

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Size:  162.4 KB For my purposes, this machine is maxed at 1/2. The face of the cut is starting to go concave...….but it's still square, and usable.

    The tip stayed very clean at the increased standoff, and did well through the entire session.

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Size:  239.7 KB I use a small stainless wire brush between cuts to keep the tip clean. Works well now that the standoff is matching the material.

  20. #70
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    Re: You Seen My Pin??????????????????

    Cuts earlier in the session with a different tip, but at the same standoff. This shows repeatability, and tip wear. This was a fresh tip just used for the comparison to the tip that had been running for all other cuts. They cut nice when fresh.

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    This is hand cutting, not CNC, and I really don't expect any better quality on the thicker material. Travel speed is the greatest induced variable.

  21. #71
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    Re: You Seen My Pin??????????????????

    Standoff standoff standoff standoff standoff

    Did I mention standoff??

    Was an eye opener.

  22. #72
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    Re: You Seen My Pin??????????????????

    Quote Originally Posted by farmersammm View Post
    STANDOFF

    3/8 plate. 60amps. .175 standoff. (I started at .190, and worked my way down to .125...……...175 gave the best cut)

    Name:  pin59.JPG
Views: 297
Size:  238.4 KB Here at the Compound, we spare no expense to bring ya the Straight Poop...……..what less would ya expect from the folks at Uranus Inc.

    Name:  pin60.JPG
Views: 294
Size:  207.5 KB .175-3/8. Nice top line

    Name:  pin61.JPG
Views: 295
Size:  199.9 KB Relatively clean cut. I don't mind slag. All I care about is dimensions.

    Name:  pin62.JPG
Views: 294
Size:  194.7 KB You can see the large amount of slag...…..this comes from running slow, which I prefer. It pops off with a touch of a chipping hammer, leaving a clean edge.

    Name:  pin63.JPG
Views: 299
Size:  204.5 KB THIS IS WHAT I CARE ABOUT...…….I NEED SQUARE EDGES FOR FITUP, AND LAYOUT
    pretty decent cut samm and you're testing out your new chipping hammer;it's a winx2 situation.
    i.u.o.e. # 15
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  23. #73
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    Re: You Seen My Pin??????????????????

    Quote Originally Posted by farmersammm View Post
    Standoff standoff standoff standoff standoff

    Did I mention standoff??

    Was an eye opener.
    Think about spark plug gap. A wider gap makes a hotter spark and needs more volts to make a spark.

  24. #74
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    Re: You Seen My Pin??????????????????

    Hmmm... so practice makes perfect... who'd have thought?? Here's a shot of how far I got drilling the drawbar material before I gave up. Think it was a 3/4" cobalt. The only good news to breaking a drawbar is that they make great push plates for the press. I'm including a shot of the John Deere style of drawbar. Note that it uses a 2nd bar to take the weight so it's not all on a hanger like yours. Yes it needs a bath, yes my shims above the rollers are getting beat up and yes, I have broken the bolts in the end of the drawbar before. The top bar is tacked in place to hold it up when I'm changing the broken bolts. Name:  IMG_2293.jpg
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    F-225 amp Forney AC Stick
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    Lincoln 180C MIG
    Victor Medalist 350 O/A

    Les

  25. #75
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    Re: You Seen My Pin??????????????????

    Try with a well sharpened masonry bit, tapping fluid, slow speed and quite heavy feed.
    Last edited by snowbird; 09-22-2019 at 05:57 PM.

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