dual shield wire I can run in a Millermatic 211?
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  1. #1

    dual shield wire I can run in a Millermatic 211?

    So I'm going to do a little "structural" welding. Nothing particularly critical. I'll be putting some 5/8" studs on the top of a W beam. I've read the pros/cons (mainly cons) of short circuit MIG for structural welding and that's pushing me toward FCAW, but most of the dual shield wires are too big for my machine and require too much power. Is there a dual shield wire that I can put in my Millermatic 211? I'm sure my duty cycle will be terrible, but I'm willing to take things slow. I couldn't even find a dual shield wire in 0.035" that comes in 10#/12# spools...

    FYI. Specs on my machine say 150A@23.5V 30% duty. Amp range 30-210.
    Last edited by rszimm; 09-12-2019 at 12:06 PM.

  2. #2
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    Re: dual shield wire I can run in a Millermatic 211?

    https://www.lincolnelectric.com/en-u...ncolnElectric)

    Dual Shield is more of a slang term. Outershield is the correct name for Lincoln flux core gas shielded wire. .035 should run in your welder.

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    Re: dual shield wire I can run in a Millermatic 211?

    Lincoln lists the parameters for .035 as well within the limits of your machine. Look in "documents" on the above link

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    Re: dual shield wire I can run in a Millermatic 211?

    "Nothing particularly critical"


    why bother with Dual shield wire ?

    This isn't structural welding.
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  5. #5

    Re: dual shield wire I can run in a Millermatic 211?

    Thanks. Now why couldn't I find that... Looks like this is going to be right on the edge with my welder set at 150A.
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    The wire specs:
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    Am I reading that right? Do I run this DCEP??? I've always thought flux cored ran DCEN?

  6. #6

    Re: dual shield wire I can run in a Millermatic 211?

    Quote Originally Posted by Broccoli1 View Post
    "Nothing particularly critical"


    why bother with Dual shield wire ?

    This isn't structural welding.
    Well, I guess I just wanted to do things the "right" way. Sure it's not critical like a knife plate to the side of a column, where if that fails my structure collapses (I'm letting the professionals handle that one). However, it does still hold the sill plate for the walls that are being built above it. If it fails, there are a lot of other hold downs and mechanical fasteners that will hold things together, but I figured I could handle a half dozen studs. That said, if you think I'd be just as well off using self-shielded or even MIG, perhaps I'll defer to your greater knowledge...

  7. #7
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    Re: dual shield wire I can run in a Millermatic 211?

    You don't need it.

    Dual shield is preferred in "structural" steel applications because you can put down a lot of wire, all position.

    This is a good read>

    https://weldingweb.com/showthread.ph...ld-welding-Why
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    Re: dual shield wire I can run in a Millermatic 211?

    by studs, do you mean round or threaded bar? If that's all it is, short-arc MIG will be fine, in fact probably won't even need to max the machine out.

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    Re: dual shield wire I can run in a Millermatic 211?

    Weldingsupply.com is the only place I have found that sells the 10lb spools of 035 71M wire. https://weldingsupply.com/cgi-bin/einstein.pl

    ED026804 Outershield 71M .035 10LB Spool $5.39 14% OffMore.. Qty Discounts
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    Re: dual shield wire I can run in a Millermatic 211?

    The wire I posted above will work fine in your machine. To Ed's point that you don't need it, I tend to disagree if you will be welding out of position. I find dual shield easier to weld vertical up with than short circuit mig. Plus dual shield is just fun as heck to weld with. If you have the money, give it a try...it will extend the capability of your welder a bit.
    Am I reading that right? Do I run this DCEP??? I've always thought flux cored ran DCEN?
    You are reading it correctly. only self shielded flux core (gasless) runs DCEN
    Last edited by Louie1961; 09-12-2019 at 01:03 PM.
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    Re: dual shield wire I can run in a Millermatic 211?

    Quote Originally Posted by Louie1961 View Post
    The wire I posted above will work fine in your machine. To Ed's point that you don't need it, I tend to disagree if you will be welding out of position. I find dual shield easier to weld vertical up with than short circuit mig. Plus dual shield is just fun as heck to weld with. If you have the money, give it a try...it will extend the capability of your welder a bit.


    You are reading it correctly. only self shielded flux core (gasless) runs DCEN
    He doesn't need it for this application. He can certainly use it though if he wants to.
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  12. #12
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    Re: dual shield wire I can run in a Millermatic 211?

    Quote Originally Posted by Broccoli1 View Post
    He doesn't need it for this application. He can certainly use it though if he wants to.
    I agree. Use it as an opportunity to try a different product.


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    Re: dual shield wire I can run in a Millermatic 211?

    Quote Originally Posted by rszimm View Post
    So I'm going to do a little "structural" welding. Nothing particularly critical. I'll be putting some 5/8" studs on the top of a W beam. I've read the pros/cons (mainly cons) of short circuit MIG for structural welding and that's pushing me toward FCAW, but most of the dual shield wires are too big for my machine and require too much power. Is there a dual shield wire that I can put in my Millermatic 211? I'm sure my duty cycle will be terrible, but I'm willing to take things slow. I couldn't even find a dual shield wire in 0.035" that comes in 10#/12# spools...

    FYI. Specs on my machine say 150A@23.5V 30% duty. Amp range 30-210.
    You can always try to run more voltage, and adjust the duty cycle appropriately. IMO it runs best when you crank up the voltage to where the tip of the actual wire becomes a "►" type of needle-tip right as it crosses the arc. HTP sells USA-made dual shield flux core E71T-1M/1C but they're out of stock (I just tried to order some yesterday). I think it runs well.




    Slag peels off nicely






    I ended up ordering some 045 since they're not sure when they will have the 035 back in stock, but then again my MIGs can handle going up to higher voltages.

    Little tip to help with duty cycle: use the "higher end" of the recommended CTWD (about ¾") and it tends to help a little bit with duty cycle issues, or at least it seems that way to me. I dunno, I'm just a hobbyist.
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  14. #14

    Re: dual shield wire I can run in a Millermatic 211?

    Thanks guys. I'll give it a shot (even though I likely don't need dual shielded, Especially given that my welds here will be horizontal, and in a shop). I really don't think duty cycle will be an issue for THIS project. I only have 8 studs (5/8" F1554 threaded rod 5/16" fillet (probably 2 passes?)). I just figured I could save myself maybe a thousand bucks by ordering the beam myself, drilling the 6 holes in each end (I've got a Hougen mag drill) and welding the rods on the top flange. If there were any more complex welds on the beam (web stiffeners, bearing plates, etc) I'd just let a professional do it.

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    Re: dual shield wire I can run in a Millermatic 211?

    I agree, for small projects the duty cycle shouldn't be a huge concern if you let the welder rest a good while, maybe even put a fan to help with the airflow around it.

    Oh, forgot a different angle of that same weld. Done with a HTP Pro Pulse 200. Or was it the Pro Pulse 220 MTS? Heck, I don't even remember, lol.






    If you're feeling ambitious, you can always try to run a 10lb roll of 045 dual shield. Keep the WFS to about 225-250, voltage to about 23ish, with a 1" CTWD, and you might just be surprised what you may be able to get away with.
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    Re: dual shield wire I can run in a Millermatic 211?

    Quote Originally Posted by Oscar View Post
    I agree, for small projects the duty cycle shouldn't be a huge concern if you let the welder rest a good while, maybe even put a fan to help with the airflow around it.

    Oh, forgot a different angle of that same weld. Done with a HTP Pro Pulse 200. Or was it the Pro Pulse 220 MTS? Heck, I don't even remember, lol.






    If you're feeling ambitious, you can always try to run a 10lb roll of 045 dual shield. Keep the WFS to about 225-250, voltage to about 23ish, with a 1" CTWD, and you might just be surprised what you may be able to get away with.
    That looks very cool Oscar, thanks for sharing. That gives me hope that my small Fronius Transsteel 2200 might just run dual shield well. 045 doesn't come in 10lb flavors, so unless you have an HTP pro pulse you are out of luck there, all them small MIG welders can only take a max of 8" spools.


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    Re: dual shield wire I can run in a Millermatic 211?

    Quote Originally Posted by precivilization View Post
    That looks very cool Oscar, thanks for sharing. That gives me hope that my small Fronius Transsteel 2200 might just run dual shield well. 045 doesn't come in 10lb flavors, so unless you have an HTP pro pulse you are out of luck there, all them small MIG welders can only take a max of 8" spools.


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    The 10lbs spool is an 8" spool, so you should be fine.
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    Re: dual shield wire I can run in a Millermatic 211?

    Quote Originally Posted by Oscar View Post
    The 10lbs spool is an 8" spool, so you should be fine.
    I think you misread my post. I was trying to say that 045 doesn't come in 10lb/8" spools that fits inside smaller machines. Which is fine since smaller mig welders can't run 045 well anyway.


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    Re: dual shield wire I can run in a Millermatic 211?

    Quote Originally Posted by precivilization View Post
    I think you misread my post. I was trying to say that 045 doesn't come in 10lb/8" spools that fits inside smaller machines. Which is fine since smaller mig welders can't run 045 well anyway.


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    Yup definitely not understanding what you're saying, LOL.
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    Re: dual shield wire I can run in a Millermatic 211?

    I was trying to say that 045 doesn't come in 10lb/8" spools
    Not so...




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    Re: dual shield wire I can run in a Millermatic 211?

    Quote Originally Posted by Louie1961 View Post
    Not so...




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    That's what I thought he was saying, but it seems he may mean something else, as I have a few of those Lincoln 71M spools in 10lbs. I dunno, lol. I actually got 4 rolls of 045 71M for free. The guy thought that because one was welding with worm-tracks, that they were all compromised as well. Turns out, it's kinda like lettuce. Peel off the soggy outer layers, and the inside can still be fine. And they were! I just had to burn off about 1.5 layers of wire, and the rest was a-ok!
    Last edited by Oscar; 09-13-2019 at 09:50 AM.
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    Re: dual shield wire I can run in a Millermatic 211?

    Quote Originally Posted by Louie1961 View Post
    Not so...




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    I stand corrected. Thanks Louie


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