Titanium 200 wiring
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  1. #1

    Titanium 200 wiring

    Hey Guys,

    First post here, so thanks in advance for the help. Wired a 240VAC 30amp subpanel to my garage, was going to run the Harbor Freight Titanium 200 on 120vac for small projects. The cordset on the unit is a NEMA 6-50, which is for 240 50amp connection. It comes with a pigtail which is a nema 5-15 for 120vac. My problem is they say the welder draws 20-23amps (input) while welding on 120vac. So I have the receptacle wired with 10awg. If I connect a NEMA 5-15 plus which is only rated for 15amp it will burn up the receptacle or plug on the pigtail. As far as I am aware there is no NEMA plug for 30 amps for a 5-15 plug. What am I missing here?

    Thanks!
    Andrew

  2. #2
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    Re: Titanium 200 wiring

    Welcome to the forum! Hopefully someone with the knowledge will come along soon and give you some solid advice/answer.

  3. #3
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    Re: Titanium 200 wiring

    Ok, you can wire the recept with 10 but it wont help a lot unless it is a long run and actually hurts sometimes as it allows more current faster and makes breakers more prone to trip. You are allowed to run a 20 breaker on a 15 outlet. You can turn some machines up far enough to trip them, not all do even when its rated above 20A. This is a place to have a dedicated wire dedicated circuit for a couple of reasons but,,,, its not legal to use a larger breaker on 120 than 20 with a common outlet and not for the same reason as it is on a general circuit with multiple outlets where there is the potential to overload the wire but due to the fact much of the short circuit protection in 120V equipment relies on the breaker.
    I have a "special" circuit for my chop saw,,, trips up a 20. I should have a single vs a duplex but this works.
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    Re: Titanium 200 wiring

    As far as I am aware there is no NEMA plug for 30 amps for a 5-15 plug. What am I missing here?
    No,,, there is none,,,, if it was a 30 plug it would take a 30 recept. The USA system uses a rather complicated way of limiting overcurrent based on a lot of factors. It kind of assumes its all wired correct from start to finish.

  5. #5
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    Re: Titanium 200 wiring

    I remember seeing some travel trailer campers equiped with 30 amp 120 volt plugs and camp sites with 30 amp 120 volt recepticles years back. I do know my parent's camper had one and the campsites we went to had the recepticles available to plug them into. I dont know if they are any longer available.

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    Re: Titanium 200 wiring

    Quote Originally Posted by arusinas View Post
    Hey Guys,

    First post here, so thanks in advance for the help. Wired a 240VAC 30amp subpanel to my garage, was going to run the Harbor Freight Titanium 200 on 120vac for small projects. The cordset on the unit is a NEMA 6-50, which is for 240 50amp connection. It comes with a pigtail which is a nema 5-15 for 120vac. My problem is they say the welder draws 20-23amps (input) while welding on 120vac. So I have the receptacle wired with 10awg. If I connect a NEMA 5-15 plus which is only rated for 15amp it will burn up the receptacle or plug on the pigtail. As far as I am aware there is no NEMA plug for 30 amps for a 5-15 plug. What am I missing here?

    Thanks!
    Andrew
    Yes it is messed up a little. Same dilemma most face trying to run little units off 120 volt. They require more than 20 amp but the 120 cord cap they have has no compatible receptacle rated higher than 20 amp. It isn't a problem same reason they allow you to protect a welding circuit at almost double the conductors rating in some cases with a low duty cycle especially. It is allowed cool time because the welder demands it anyway. What risk is there the welder can't just stay on and weld by itself. You have to be present so if something was giving up you would be there to see it, smell it and address it. Not like you can leave the room and the welder is going to be in there burning stuff up by itself.

    You can just run the 10's to a 20 amp 120 volt outlet and be just fine or use a 6-50R 50amp 240 volt(wired 120) and overkill it.

    While they do have 120 volt 30 amp twist locks that is a waste of time. The rating really doesn't mean it can't take more. If you get a good quality Hubbel or similar in a 120 20 amp it will hold better than most without heating up. Any quality 120 volt 20 amp with the screws that have holes where the wire gets behind the nut and you tighten are best.

    If you have 240 why wouldn't you wire it for 240 ? Or just wire the 6-50R 240 volt 50 amp plug with the 10's and 120 volt if that is really what you want to run it on. Then your plug isn't undersized.

    I would put it on 240 as most users of those little machines report night and day difference on 240 volt even when turned down they seem to do better on the higher voltage.
    Last edited by danielplace; 09-20-2019 at 01:57 PM.

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    Re: Titanium 200 wiring

    Yes, there is 30A 120 but,,,, this is for travel trailers where there is additional breakers inside with 15 and 20 to allow it to use common equipment rated to run on 20.
    The wire and the recept/ plug are not a problem for this, the breaker is. The machine comes 14 cord. This won't overheat a 12 building wire. The machine is rated at 30% or so wide open, so if it's pulling north of 20A it's not continious.
    I actually use the cheap 49 cent recepts. About the only time I use something different is old work where the small boxes don't have room for pigrails and the back clamp is easier. Can get it all close and train the wire to fold back in.
    Last edited by Sberry; 09-20-2019 at 01:59 PM.

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    Re: Titanium 200 wiring

    I would still just wire it to a 6-50R then you don't have to use the adapter or the losses it adds. Those are susceptible to overheating anyway because they are cheaply made and minimally sized. If your plugging in the main cord without the adapter you are ahead of the game IMO.

    Not sure why you would just wire it 240 though. But if you wire the 6-50R with 120 now it will only require a two pole breaker when your ready for 240 volt.
    And of course set the voltage selector switch to 240 volt. Lol.
    Last edited by danielplace; 09-20-2019 at 02:16 PM.

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    Re: Titanium 200 wiring

    I will agree about running it from 240. With dvi there are 2 adapters, the 120v one is a simple pass thru and the cord and plug rely on the breaker for short circuit protection. The 240 one has additional protection if the machine comes with 14 cord. 14 must be 30A max, 12 is allowed on 50.

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    Re: Titanium 200 wiring

    I will agree about running it from 240. With dvi there are 2 adapters, the 120v one is a simple pass thru and the cord and plug rely on the breaker for short circuit protection. The 240 one has additional protection if the machine comes with 14 cord. 14 must be 30A max, 12 is allowed on 50.

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    Re: Titanium 200 wiring

    In Response To The Op First post. The breaker isn't protecting the outlet at 15 cause it will burn up, the cord or plug either. It's there to limit it in the event someone plugs in 2 hi draw appliances on the same circuit and to provide limited short circuit. The cord, the plug is protted by the applied calculated load. By design the appliance can draw only so much power during normal operation. NEMA provides guideline and spec for all the wire and attachments etc.
    As a disclaimer this is relative generalization, other specifics may apply.

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    Re: Titanium 200 wiring

    It takes some time and training to make this become instinctual. The learning curve can be slow without formal training. My early mentors were poor, if they did fully understand they couldn't teach it.
    This is why I am acutely aware of this,, I can spot it from here when it's incomplete or learned from hearsay. The net has helped with this, it's made it possible for everyone to talk with masters.
    Some guys been on forums a long time, can see this grow.

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    Re: Titanium 200 wiring

    I am just going to leave this here. Would anyone trust suggestions from someone that is questionable with the legal departments for growing weed and claiming himself to be totally innocent? Read all of the posts and decide for yourself. What it sounds like is that he is claiming that he was "framed". Yeah, right!
    https://www.shopfloortalk.com/forums...ad.php?t=40328
    Last edited by astronut; 09-20-2019 at 06:17 PM.

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    Re: Titanium 200 wiring

    the shop floor topic doesnt even matter.

    Sberry is correct here in this post.
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    Re: Titanium 200 wiring

    Quote Originally Posted by astronut View Post
    I am just going to leave this here. Would anyone trust suggestions from someone that is questionable with the legal departments for growing weed and claiming himself to be totally innocent? Read all of the posts and decide for yourself. What it sounds like is that he is claiming that he was "framed". Yeah, right!
    https://www.shopfloortalk.com/forums...ad.php?t=40328
    Attacks on a person instead of the merits of his technical statements are "ad hominem":
    https://www.txstate.edu/philosophy/r...d-Hominem.html

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    Re: Titanium 200 wiring

    Quote Originally Posted by astronut View Post
    I remember seeing some travel trailer campers equiped with 30 amp 120 volt plugs and camp sites with 30 amp 120 volt recepticles years back. I do know my parent's camper had one and the campsites we went to had the recepticles available to plug them into. I dont know if they are any longer available.
    They are.

    Common 30amp RV receptacle is a TT 30.
    Common 50amp RV receptacle is a 14-50.

    But as mentioned that 30amp cord is wired to a panel inside the RV with 15/20amp circuit breakers to feed the receptacles inside the camper.

    Same for the 14-50 50amp cord run to an RV/Trailer.

    I have owned both types.
    Ed Conley
    http://www.screamingbroccoli.com/
    MM252
    MM211 (Sold)
    Passport Plus & Spool gun
    Lincoln SP135 Plus- (Gone to a good home)
    Miller 125c Plasma 120v
    SO 2020 bender
    Beer in the fridge

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    Re: Titanium 200 wiring

    Broc. We came thru the forums the same time. I studied code from the net too. We are somewhat similar I think in the way that we not really so much interested in welding or electric but what it can do for us and we need to hook up the equipment correctly.
    I really don't understand electric for the most part. Being a wireman or installer is a bit different skill set than true electrician or engineering types. My helder is like that, I drill the holes and have him read the schematics or wire banks of 3 and 4 ways. It's just gibberish to me but he can read pages of electronic drawings.

  18. #18
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    Re: Titanium 200 wiring

    Quote Originally Posted by Denis G View Post
    Attacks on a person instead of the merits of his technical statements are "ad hominem":
    https://www.txstate.edu/philosophy/r...d-Hominem.html
    I dont rely on the advice of drug growers, drug dealers, or drug users no matter how accurate or inaccurate their advice may be. I have higher standards than that, others maybe not so much! I dont have any use for drug growers, drug dealers, or drug users! Feel free to lower your standards and the world's standards all you wish!

  19. #19
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    Re: Titanium 200 wiring

    Broc. We came thru the forums the same time. I studied code from the net too. We are somewhat similar I think in the way that we not really
    Last edited by Sberry; 09-21-2019 at 05:43 AM.

  20. #20
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    Re: Titanium 200 wiring

    There are other 120 volt cord caps and receptacles that are rated 30 amps than just RV configurations. They are NO more robust than a good spec grade 20 amp is though. It is just a configuration not what it can ultimately safely take.

    Just like a 30 amp dryer outlet and a 50 amp range outlet. Most are identical in construction but different rating only because it is a configuration not what it can safely carry.

    My point is the rating of the outlet has very little to do with what it will take in excess of it's rating. Some may not even be good for what it is rated at while another could take twice it's rating. Design/brand/quality are as important as what someone decided to rate it at. Some of the junk they sell today is actually unbelievable in it's construction.

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    Re: Titanium 200 wiring

    Yes, I think there is a twist lock 120v. It is often used in places like powerhouse construction where there is lots of recepts in haphazard fashion, they put rod ovens and some lights on it, mostly temporary. The stuff they allow plugged in to it is specialized. I was on a nuke that used 30 twist. Very few electric tools, very special, all the grinding was air.
    I agree that the design doesn't have a lot to do with its ultimate capacity, the dryer/range is a good example.
    Last edited by Sberry; 09-21-2019 at 04:27 PM.

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    Re: Titanium 200 wiring

    Also just to add, some stuff requires 30A service which is slightly different than rated to be allowed to be plugged in to it
    A similar case is the 200 class compact mig, requires 30, rated to be plugged in to 50.

  23. #23
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    Re: Titanium 200 wiring

    Just put in a 5-20R and move on. That 10 gauge is gonna be tuff to work with tho.
    "The things that will destroy America are prosperity at any price, peace at any price, safety first instead of duty first, the love of soft living and the get rich quick theory of life." -Theodore Roosevelt

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    Re: Titanium 200 wiring

    Quote Originally Posted by Sandy View Post
    Just put in a 5-20R and move on. That 10 gauge is gonna be tuff to work with tho.
    That is another reason I suggest to just wire in a 6-50R and then you can plug it straight in without the adapter needed. The 6-50r would make it easy to wire with the 10 gauge. Likely solid romex too.

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    Re: Titanium 200 wiring

    I will agree that it doesn't make sense to wire it 120 if there is 240 available but it's not right to wire some scheme thru a 6/50 at 120v. Probably other reasons not to but there is no N in that recept. Feeding a 6/50 with 240@ 30A is legal for a welder.
    Last edited by Sberry; 09-23-2019 at 08:08 AM.

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