[MetalMan23]

Phil, first off if you are determined to spray arc it, do yourself a favor and step up to 045 wire, and the correct gas. 045 wire will run better on that thickness of plate. Second, how critical are these welds? Dual shield will work but I am wondering if you can get by with something like a Fabshield 21B self shielded flux core. You could run the 045 or 1/16th wire, forget the gas and lay down 3 lbs of wire an hour at about 200 amps. It should be plenty strong enough.

Well they're not getting xrayed or anything but they are supporting some heavy weight, that self shielded wire sounds good to me, I just want to get it done, I know could make it come out beautiful with 7018, but that'll take me forever.

I actually do have a Benard mig torch with the centerfire consumables, I just have to see if that liner can take a 1/16th wire, I know it'll do 045


Thanks guys

maybe I should just use 90/10 in the future for when I may need to spray arc again.

Sent from my SM-G973U using Tapatalk

 

[Welder Dave]

I's use Dual shield with your C-25 gas or straight CO2. Fabshield 21B isn't nearly as strong or have as much penetration and has a lot more smoke. If you had lots to do and it's in the flat position get some self-shielded E70-T4. It has the highest deposition rates. I used some 3/32" at around 400 amps and went through a 50lb. coil in 2 1/2 hours. Just make sure you have a good ground so you don't get arc blow. Weld looks almost like sub -arc.

https://www.lincolnelectric.com/ass...nsumable_Flux-CoredWires-Self-Shielded-Innershield-InnershieldNS-3M/c320002.pdf

 

[cornchip]

not sure how powerful your machine is but mine sprays fine with 85/15 and can still short circuit on the same bottle. metal core is good for putting down alot of material.
i see your working outside. likely the wind may be blowing away your gas. use self shield fluxcore or wait until the wind is very low

 

[Eelspike]

Dual shield in 1/16 is fast and clean, flux core in 5/64 like Lincoln NR 311 or even 233 world make short work of that. Make sure you not having problems from going over the 6010 like not floating out contaminated from the root pass. It looks like too much voltage add wire speed or subtract voltage to get right at the transition point between spray ang globular transfer and dial in from there looking to work in the lower range of the voltage/wire-feed-speed at first. Mixing the gas could work out but trying to change too many things at once can be confusing. You know how the roots went in so if they were clean 7018 does a great job running over 6010 roots but mig wire might not be as forgiving.

 

[Munkul]

I think it's nothing to do with the gas, and everything to do with the 6010 root pass. MIG doesn't allow the impurities and hydrogen to escape easily. MIG likes clean, high quality metal. Even a bit of trapped slag would do what you see there.

 

[MetalMan23]

I think it's nothing to do with the gas, and everything to do with the 6010 root pass. MIG doesn't allow the impurities and hydrogen to escape easily. MIG likes clean, high quality metal. Even a bit of trapped slag would do what you see there.

That may be the problem, while I was having difficulty with welds that were a mig root, the 6010 root welds were way worse

Sent from my SM-G973U using Tapatalk

 

[MetalMan23]

I think it's nothing to do with the gas, and everything to do with the 6010 root pass. MIG doesn't allow the impurities and hydrogen to escape easily. MIG likes clean, high quality metal. Even a bit of trapped slag would do what you see there.

if that is my problem will the dual shield give me the same issues? Should I just stick weld it all?

Sent from my SM-G973U using Tapatalk

 

[Munkul]

if that is my problem will the dual shield give me the same issues? Should I just stick weld it all?

Sent from my SM-G973U using Tapatalk

Depends on the wire. Some will be more tolerant of impurities than others.

MIG welding straight over a previous pass without grinding will give you problems, as will further passes over porosity without grinding right back to clean metal. It's just about impossible to "cover up" porosity, it will just keep coming through.

Sometimes you can get away with welding over crap if the amps and gun angle and everything is "just right" but it's a crapshoot, it's not predictable.

The only truly predictable way to get high quality MIG welds is to have everything down to clean shiny bright metal.

 

[Willie B]

If you look at my old posts you'll see that my experience with Dual Shield is a love/hate relationship. Right now, I'm in love again. I'm running a .045" wire made for 75% gas.
In the past I've had problems ranging from porosity, wormholes, bird nesting. Right now, it's under control.

 

[Louie1961]

Phil, what machine are you using to weld this? Can we get more pictures of what it is your welding?

 

[MetalMan23]

First try with dual shield, it's Lincoln outer shield, 71 elite looks great, should have success with this

Running 75/25 at about 30sch

I'm brushing the steel till it shines, and nothing think i may have wasted my money here.

Sent from my SM-G973U using Tapatalk

 

[MetalMan23]

Phil, what machine are you using to weld this? Can we get more pictures of what it is your welding?

Esab mm280, it's a great welder, lots of available power.

Sent from my SM-G973U using Tapatalk

 

[John T]

First try with dual shield, it's Lincoln outer shield, 71 elite looks great, should have success with this

Running 75/25 at about 30sch

I'm brushing the steel till it shines, and nothing think i may have wasted my money here.

Sent from my SM-G973U using Tapatalk

Damn.

Me thinks You got a bad bottle of gas

 

[MetalMan23]

Well this wire sucks, it sucks so bad, there's these weird channels in the finished bead, that and just outright terrible porosity, I'm not much of a welder I realize now, I'm good at stick welding but I can't mig weld for crap..

Sent from my SM-G973U using Tapatalk

 

[Louie1961]

First try with dual shield, it's Lincoln outer shield, 71 elite looks great, should have success with this

Running 75/25 at about 30sch

I'm brushing the steel till it shines, and nothing think i may have wasted my money here.

Sent from my SM-G973U using Tapatalk

I am confused by this. In one sentence you say looks great, then in the last sentence you say you wasted your money? I am guessing its not working out for you but if I am misunderstanding, please correct me.

Those pictures look like you aren't getting any gas OR you have the wrong polarity. Outer shield elite 71 can run on straight CO2 perfectly fine, so I doubt if it is a bad bottle of gas, but anything is possible. You need to be DC electrode positive (which it seems you have). I would run 350 ipm and 26 volts to start (assuming you are running 045 wire). Don't forget that dual shield requires a longer contact tip to work distance of 3/4 of an inch.

 

[N2 Welding]

Well this wire sucks, it sucks so bad, there's these weird channels in the finished bead, that and just outright terrible porosity, I'm not much of a welder I realize now, I'm good at stick welding but I can't mig weld for crap..

Sent from my SM-G973U using Tapatalk

sounds like worm tracks. I got porosity and worm tracks while using duel shield. It sucks and as said welding over it just exacerbates the problem. I was having problems welding T joints. One side would weld fine but the other side would draw out the crud left under the T joint. No real way to clean it out either. It was super frustrating.

Don’t be so hard on your self. Sounds like you are looking to put down as much metal as possible as fast as possible. Will you have to worry about heat warping or are you bouncing around to reduce warping. Starts and stops can potentially be problematic areas.

 

[Louie1961]

The other thing to consider is you shouldn't be welding outdoors or in a strong breeze, it blows away the gas. If you are outdoors, try to erect a wind block. Also the lincoln wires need 40-50 CFH of gas flow.

 

[MetalMan23]

I am confused by this. In one sentence you say looks great, then in the last sentence you say you wasted your money? I am guessing its not working out for you but if I am misunderstanding, please correct me.

Those pictures look like you aren't getting any gas OR you have the wrong polarity. Outer shield elite 71 can run on straight CO2 perfectly fine, so I doubt if it is a bad bottle of gas, but anything is possible. You need to be DC electrode positive (which it seems you have). I would run 350 ipm and 26 volts to start (assuming you are running 045 wire). Don't forget that dual shield requires a longer contact tip to work distance of 3/4 of an inch.

It was sarcasm, I'm just trying to maintain my sanity here while I figure it out, sorry for the confusion, sarcasm doesn't translate well through text.

Sent from my SM-G973U using Tapatalk

 

[Louie1961]

sounds like worm tracks. I got porosity and worm tracks while using duel shield. It sucks and as said welding over it just exacerbates the problem. I was having problems welding T joints. One side would weld fine but the other side would draw out the crud left under the T joint. No real way to clean it out either. It was super frustrating.

Don’t be so hard on your self. Sounds like you are looking to put down as much metal as possible as fast as possible. Will you have to worry about heat warping or are you bouncing around to reduce warping. Starts and stops can potentially be problematic areas.

This is why I recommended Fabshield 21B. As long as you don't need high charpy v-notch requirements, seismic requirements, x-ray requirements and the like, it is plenty strong for most applications, and it is dead simple. it has a 91K PSI tensile strength and a 62K PSI yield strength, which is more than mild steel has. And you won't have worm tracks.

 

[N2 Welding]

Do you have a Mig nozzle flow meter to check your gas flow?

View attachment 250A56C9-EF0B-4696-A1B3-C6515F78AB0E.jpg