Welding "Black Iron" pipe fittings

What's the application ??
The best would be a forged steel weld fitting.
You can weld black malleable fittings.
The big box stores like Menard's, Lowe's, and Home Depot usually have all import fittings like from China, Mexico, or even India . No telling what kind of materials are in there.
Try it.

 

Re: Welding "Black Iron" pipe fittings

What's the application ??
The best would be a forged steel weld fitting.
You can weld black malleable fittings.
The big box stores like Menard's, Lowe's, and Home Depot usually have all import fittings like from China, Mexico, or even India . No telling what kind of materials are in there.
Try it.

Thanks BD1. Are there any special techniques to welding black malleable fittings, or any special safety measures I would have to take note of?

 

I'm making a venturi style burner and am going to use the pipe fitting for the top part of the burner. It doesn't need to be air tight or anything like that, it won't be really bearing any weight. I just need to make a bracket on the top of the fitting.

Here's the video that shows what I'm looking to make:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ddI2HGxcnr4&list=WL&index=31&t=39s

here's a still pic from that video that shows what I'm looking to do:

 

I'm making a venturi style burner and am going to use the pipe fitting for the top part of the burner. It doesn't need to be air tight or anything like that, it won't be really bearing any weight. I just need to make a bracket on the top of the fitting.

Here's the video that shows what I'm looking to make:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ddI2HGxcnr4&list=WL&index=31&t=39s

here's a still pic from that video that shows what I'm looking to do:

View attachment 1721151

Got it. I suggest buying fittings from pipe supplier that has USA fittings. Anvil brand are American made. You'll get a better quality of steel.
Either way, clean well and weld away.


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I'd use forged steel weld fittings or go to a hyd. shop and get hyd. fittings. Standard pipe fittings are a type of cast iron and not the best for welding.

 

or you could just braze it.

 

Re: Welding "Black Iron" pipe fittings

Clean it up good and weld it with what ever you are the best at. The fittings usually have an oil on them so a degreaser will help. I just welded some 1-1/2” fittings the other day with .035 mig with 75/25 gas with no problems

 

Re: Welding "Black Iron" pipe fittings

Clean it up good and weld it with what ever you are the best at. The fittings usually have an oil on them so a degreaser will help. I just welded some 1-1/2” fittings the other day with .035 mig with 75/25 gas with no problems

Thanks for the reply farmshop. Were the fittings you welded made of black malleable iron like the one I posted the picture of?

 

brendon.davies

Hey Everyone . . . It is labeled as "Black Iron" . . .

I'm just looking for a straight answer from someone that
is 100% sure about the topic . . .

. . . this the top of a venturi burner . . .

Nomenclature varies widely in the metal trades . . .

Yellow Iron = Heavy Equipment -
Red Iron = Structural Steel -
Black Iron = Mild Steel Fabrication -
White Metal = Aluminum -
Silver Metal = Stainless Steel -
Gray Iron = Galvanized Steel -

Your illustration is a 'twist plumbing cast iron' reducer -
it is called 'black iron' because all 'cast iron' components
are also available Zinc Coated . . .

Regardless - whether naked, or coated - it is Cast Iron,
and not steel . . . hence - not readily weldable . . .

I have built many gas fired forges . . . your options . . .

Forget welding junk cast [big box] iron . . . = superior
Ni-Rod [85.00$ #] welding skills . . .
or equal . . . TIG brazing skills . . .

The steel 'weldable/twist' component you need are readily
available from Mechanical Supply sources - all around you.

And the components are affordable [cheap] compared to
doing it 'the painful way' . . .

Mechanical Supply sources are not a 'consumer/walk in the
door' outlet . . .

Go thru your favorite Boiler Maker for a connection . . .

hth


Opus





.

 

I have a couple of those burners. Always welded mig them with c25 gas. No issues.

 

I have built tons of burners, it will work fine for the couple tack welds you need to do.

 

I don't know the etymology of the "black iron" term, but all the black iron pipe I've ever dealt with (I've stick- and tig-welded plenty of it without ever an issue) appeared to be just "mild steel."

On the other hand, the "black iron" fittings I've dealt with all looked like cast iron or cast steel. Never tried welding any of them...

 

I have tigged the Chinese junk. You can tell it is junk when you tig it. However, it holds up and you can even make them air tight. ER70S2. No special rod here.

 

I have had mixed luck with pipe fittings. Some are castings and they did not act like mild steel I used Everdure on them I fused the base metals then added the Everdure. The gas should cool the pipes so you might get away with Everdure it starts to melt or get soft at 1550 Fahrenheit.

If the fittings you have are truly forged steel fittings you should be able to weld them with some mild steel wire. I have noticed the metal even the forged steel fittings while I was TIG welding them was not very happy to bond although it could be made to do so. There could be sulfur on the fittings from the oil from the threading operation. Sulfur is a funny substance.

Sincerely,

William McCormick

 

You don't know what kind of recycled trash the Chinese put in those fittings. With that said tig them with 312 as 312 has extra ferrites to check cracking.

 

"For the love of God, I'm just looking for a straight answer from someone that is 100% sure about the topic: can I safely weld a "Black Iron" pipe fitting?"

Yes.

as mentioned, for this application, clean it good and weld it up.

 

Sorry, no straight answer.
In the old days I welded garden variety plumbing fittings all the time no issues.
Nowadays not so much luck. They tend to be way more crack prone. I now TIG braze them.
Good luck.

 

It gets confusing when you're talking about pipe fittings and others are talking about pipe itself.

Fittings, because of their complicated shape and need to take threads, are almost always made from cast iron. They pour molten iron into a mold, and once it cools, they thread it.

The actual pipe that goes between the fittings is just regular mild steel and can be cut and welded like you'd expect.

While you can weld to cast iron for the application you need, I highly recommend "welding tees" that are made from mild steel and designed to be welded.

Better yet, save yourself the aggravation and simply buy a burner like the JF#1 from Thermal Art Designs. For how little they cost, it's nice to know you're getting a burner that was designed from the ground up to be a burner.

Weldable 2-1/2"x1" Reducer Fitting

 

It gets confusing when you're talking about pipe fittings and others are talking about pipe itself.

Fittings, because of their complicated shape and need to take threads, are almost always made from cast iron. They pour molten iron into a mold, and once it cools, they thread it.

The actual pipe that goes between the fittings is just regular mild steel and can be cut and welded like you'd expect.

While you can weld to cast iron for the application you need, I highly recommend "welding tees" that are made from mild steel and designed to be welded.

Better yet, save yourself the aggravation and simply buy a burner like the JF#1 from Thermal Art Designs. For how little they cost, it's nice to know you're getting a burner that was designed from the ground up to be a burner.

View attachment 1721204

Have you used him before ? There aren't any prices, or checkout on the site. Is this the right one ? http://www.thermalartdesign.com/home

I've been working on making a little forge to make a few decorative items with my son. I wouldn't mind buying a burner kit that needs welding , or even a whole burner assembly if the price is right. How much do they want for a JF #1 burner. How do you pay for them PayPal or something else ? Any info would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks,
Allan

 

If you go to a real plumbing store they have steel plumbing fits.

Dave

 

True steel fittings are forged steel which are heavy and thick and rated at 3,000 PSI.
Typically most fittings are black malleable OR galvanized coated.


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I only first saw them after VaughnT posted but 95 USD for the basic burner there are some options if you look around the site..
http://www.thermalartdesign.com/jf1burner

 

The fittings I welded were just black pipe from menards. Something that gets lost by some here is not every project is the space shuttle or a bridge beam. No need to overthink things it doesn’t need to hold 3000 psi and be air tight. Questionable metals are where stick welding shines

 

You can always get some JB weld as well, but it is good to know the full scope or range of failure possible. When you are under something and the guy says "that JB weld sure is holding great", you tend to back away, take a giant step back. When dealing with fittings that are cast even the forged fittings are cast, it is another ball game, that all involved should know and understand. Welding is not much different than JB weld it is just on another level of play.

I did this some years ago for friends in a building in Manhatten that used to have a hard time getting the sump pumps in and out to clear a clog. I did not charge them for it, I made it in one night when I should have been watching the game. I was only able to get fittings from Home Depot and they did not like welding because they would not easily bond with the iron and steel. So I Everdured them. I had to bring them by train and subway or pay $55 to park which could turn into $165 if I had to move around in the city, so I wanted the legs to come off so the whole thing could be broken down. The Everdure held well and bonded well, while the steel wire was causing a lot of shrinkage as if no filler wire was being added, that is why I used the Everdure.

Sincerely,

William McCormick

 

Sorry didn't mean to hijack the thread, and thanks for the replies. I was looking at the right website, but the wrong burner. Some of the website is incomplete (JF 1.1b Burner link is blank, but the next one is good " JF#1 BURNER" is.)

Its my own personal experience (ymmv) that if the fitting isn't spec'd as weldable, its a crap shoot. There are so many Cast Iron/Steel items that give you mixed results when attempting to weld. Chain sprockets , pipe fittings, pillow block bearing housings, gear box housings, cast steel machine components. Often they can be Mig welded, or stick welding, and other times they turn your weld into a bubbly porous mess that has to be ground back out. I call it mystery metal, you just dont know what it is exactly(your can grind and spark test to get a rough idea). Most of the time for what your doing Mig or stick would be fine. If you only have stick, I would recommend 6013 because it wont overly penetrate the casting and dig up bubbly stuff. Your not holding pressure in this pipe or holding up anything structurally a few good tacks should be fine. If you don't like the looks you can always buy a 1lb package of Ni rod, but its really expensive. So many times when I've repaired machinery, these items are always a surprise when you weld them. If they are non critical they should be fine, just smack it with a hammer when your done welding, if it doesn't crack off right then, you should be fine. Just to be clear this is a burner meant to be used in a hobby forge, it isn't being used to heat a domestic residence or unattended occupied space ? Fittings are usually cheap, so go ahead and weld some and see how they turn out. You can even go to some garage sales, and flea markets and find people selling boxes of fittings now for cheap. So much of the piping is going to plastic, many people are getting rid of them(home owners).
Best of luck with you project, post some pic's when you can. Sound's like an interesting project.

HTH

 

This thread reminded me of one of the scariest things I ever saw. I was doing a cold water upgrade in a boiler house and happened to look up at the steam header and noticed that somebody had cut into the dome end and welded a malleable 2" coupler on to it!!! Looked like it was welded with about 10 goobered passes of 6010 downhill. The boiler supervisor didn't see a problem with it, but the boiler inspector had a cow. He wasn't responsible for anything past the top flange on the boilers but still read the company the riot act about that tie-in and it was fixed properly before the boilers were fired the next time.

 

Wow, he could have used an extra heavy steel coupling if they were too cheap to use a threadolet.


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Exactly.

 

Straight answer "No".

If you had a forged steel fitting it would be better, but still not Apollo mission-ready, but better.

https://www.trupply.com/blogs/news/...918-what-is-the-difference-between-malleable-iron-and-forged-iron-pipe-fittings

Black-pipe is not black-iron treaded-fitting-material. So although the rolled welded seam black pipe is steel it is not the same as cast malleable black iron fittings. And it is not the same as the forged steel fittings that have a slew of alloys in them. Fire sprinklers are supposed to have only forged steel fittings, but today who knows, who would even be able to tell the difference? Not many. When we did six-inch gas piping in post-offices we always went to the sprinkler supply to get forged fittings just incase.

Sincerely,

William McCormick

 

I use a lot of high pressure forged fittings for hydraulics,, and I never buy anywhere other than the oilfield supply. It's about the same strategy as you're following.

An interesting trend is happening...................The oilfield supply close to us, is now offering a choice between US, and Import, fittings/valves. The Imports are slightly cheaper, but IMHO.........you're a fool to buy them.

I'm sure most folks have seen a hydraulic hose fail. Usually it's not a total burst, but mostly they pinhole. YOU DO NOT WANT TO HAVE ANY SKIN IN THE WAY OF A PINHOLE FAILURE. It can act like a hypodermic needle. I've seen a higher failure rate on Import hoses, than US made hoses. So.........I carry this logic on out to Import fittings, and most importantly...........valves.

 

Here is one I built several ago. I have one with the nozzle welded also. This burned didn't need nozzle inside the forge. It will not ignite in open air.
Never had issue welding that stuff. It is from home depot.

 

If you only want a simple forge, I built dual burner one a few years ago and as I remember there was zero welding except for the frame. It's been used a lot with no problems. Everything was screwed together. We used plans on the internet, combined a few things from different plans.

 

I used to work in a large injection molding shop, with presses ranging from 200 to 1000 ton clamping force. Mostly Van Dorn, Cincinnati Milacron, Neststal, making CD , Cassette, and VHS, storage boxes. I was told to always stay away from the hydraulics when working on the robots(automated pick-outs, and assemblers). We had about 20 cleaning guys that did nothing but clean up all the hydraulic oil from all the small leaks, and the Bijur way oilers. Every time the mold cycled the bijur oiler would squirt oil on the ways, and shoes (brass plates). It was a very oily place, nothing ever rusted there, and my boots were very waterproof. You could even see the hydraulic oil mist in the air when looking up at the lights. One of the greaser guys cleaning found a leak with the tip of his finger. Puffed up really hard, after a while the finger started to change color. The next time we saw him, he was missing the tip of that finger.
Many of these presses had big flexible hydraulic lines with steel pipe connections, a big steel block with 4 bolt holes and a o-ring on the mounting face. They would often crack and leak, and I was shown how to fix them by grinding out and welding with 6011 by the maint super. I did probably over a hundred in the time that I was there. Only a few came back to be reworked. All I had to work with in the beginning was a Lincoln AC-225, later on the we got a Dial-Arc 250 AC/DC, which I put a scratch start TIG torch with a valve on it.
At that same shop, a mold operator was trying to clear a wood sliver out of a clogged injector gate on a poly mold for vhs boxes. When he cleared the sliver from the mold with his fingernail(not supposed to use anything that might scratch the highly polished mold surface) the residual injection pressure shot the hot polypropelyne under his fingernail. He didn't loose the finger, but it never looked the same, and he said it hurt like h***.

Another guy I saw with a finger like that was a painting contractor. I was meeting a friend at the local bar after work, and when I got there he was talking to the guy next to him. He said was cleaning the tip of his airless sprayer. When the clog cleared his finger was on the spray tip and the residual pressure shot the paint into his finger. His finger was purple( No, I didn't ask what color the paint was ) and my friend was trying to convince him he should go to the Emergency room. The guy stayed for another shot or two, and the next time I saw him he was missing his fingertip two.

Be careful where you stick your fingers, you'll really miss them when they're gone.