Reply to Thread

Re: When To Change Argon Cylinder?

I have a TIG finger and it came from that store. I used it the first weekend and I wasn't comfortable with it. It might be time to try it again as it should slide easier than the leather gloves.

Re: When To Change Argon Cylinder?

Originally Posted by HRTKD

My ergonomics need work too. I found this weekend that I was putting a lot of weight on my torch hand, which made it difficult to move the torch smoothly. My gloves don't slide easily on the table, so that's another thing to fix. I've been using a set of all-leather gloves, might be deerskin.

Finding a comfortable, balanced position can make all the difference for us mere mortals. I often spend more time finding the right combination of work position and body position than the actual welding time takes. Two minutes of fiddling around for a 20 second bead!

You might consider getting a TIG finger to help your torch hand slide easier...I don't use one all the time, but keep one handy just in case.

https://weldmongerstore.com/products/tig-finger

Re: When To Change Argon Cylinder?

Originally Posted by G-ManBart

I'm certainly not an expert, but that sure looks like a situation where there just isn't enough heat, and it's giving you an odd shape until the puddle finally forms. This is one of those situations where things work the opposite of what you'd expect....higher amps will actually put less heat into the work overall. The oxide layer on the top of aluminum requires far more heat to melt than the underlying aluminum, and you have to blast through that quickly to get a puddle without heating up the work...which is why you might have the machine set for 140A to get a puddle started and then the running amps would be much, much lower if you were looking at a meter on the machine showing output.

If the work gets too hot you actually need even more filler to cool the puddle and form a bead, so running low amps makes it even harder on your feed hand.

For many people (me) developing the ability to feed wire quickly, and smoothly is the biggest challenge when learning aluminum...it certainly takes some practice. That was one of the reasons I ran bead after bead when I first started learning aluminum....had multiple coupons ready to go and alternated to keep them from getting too hot. I'd run a bead on one, slide it out of the way, run a bead on the next one and repeat....just practicing getting the filler moving quickly and smoothly. Actual joints will often require even more filler, so having the ability to lay down a nice bead on flat stock first will really help with joints.

Crank up the amps, blast the pedal, and as soon as you get a shiny puddle get that filler moving, dab a couple of times and you'll be able to ease off the pedal a lot. It's a balancing act between heat, travel speed, filler size and a number of other things...when it all comes together it's an "aha" moment!

Amps will go up for the next round.

I'm working on my pedal technique also. The first couple of weekends, I wasn't flooring it at the start. Now, I floor it and then back off a bit once I get the bead further along. I do end up with a cold bead every so often, so my foot needs to get with the program.

I was making the mistake of putting down a lot of beads on the same coupon (really just scrap aluminum I had on hand). Now, I have 4" coupons and plenty of them to work through. I'm rotating between them to let them cool down as well as giving my torch a chance to cool down.

My ergonomics need work too. I found this weekend that I was putting a lot of weight on my torch hand, which made it difficult to move the torch smoothly. My gloves don't slide easily on the table, so that's another thing to fix. I've been using a set of all-leather gloves, might be deerskin.

Re: When To Change Argon Cylinder?

Originally Posted by HRTKD

I haven't figured out how to take pictures/video as I'm welding. This is a rough drawing of my horse shoe puddle. The horizontal line is where the two coupons meet. As G-manbart said, I probably need to up my amps. I think I've been keeping the amps low because I'm still working on coordinating my filler rod hand.

I'm certainly not an expert, but that sure looks like a situation where there just isn't enough heat, and it's giving you an odd shape until the puddle finally forms. This is one of those situations where things work the opposite of what you'd expect....higher amps will actually put less heat into the work overall. The oxide layer on the top of aluminum requires far more heat to melt than the underlying aluminum, and you have to blast through that quickly to get a puddle without heating up the work...which is why you might have the machine set for 140A to get a puddle started and then the running amps would be much, much lower if you were looking at a meter on the machine showing output.

If the work gets too hot you actually need even more filler to cool the puddle and form a bead, so running low amps makes it even harder on your feed hand.

For many people (me) developing the ability to feed wire quickly, and smoothly is the biggest challenge when learning aluminum...it certainly takes some practice. That was one of the reasons I ran bead after bead when I first started learning aluminum....had multiple coupons ready to go and alternated to keep them from getting too hot. I'd run a bead on one, slide it out of the way, run a bead on the next one and repeat....just practicing getting the filler moving quickly and smoothly. Actual joints will often require even more filler, so having the ability to lay down a nice bead on flat stock first will really help with joints.

Crank up the amps, blast the pedal, and as soon as you get a shiny puddle get that filler moving, dab a couple of times and you'll be able to ease off the pedal a lot. It's a balancing act between heat, travel speed, filler size and a number of other things...when it all comes together it's an "aha" moment!

Re: When To Change Argon Cylinder?

I haven't figured out how to take pictures/video as I'm welding. This is a rough drawing of my horse shoe puddle. The horizontal line is where the two coupons meet. As G-manbart said, I probably need to up my amps. I think I've been keeping the amps low because I'm still working on coordinating my filler rod hand.

Attachment 1726851

Re: When To Change Argon Cylinder?

Originally Posted by HRTKD

My stickout is the full size to match the cup. I've been using a gauge so that I'm consistent. Less stickout than that, right? I didn't adjust the stickout at all for the different welds. I'll have to switch that up next time.

When doing the butt welds, I would get a horseshoe shaped puddle, with the open end going towards the filler. I would wait for the horseshoe to change into a full circular puddle before inserting the filler. That took a lot of time.

Yes, less stickout. As little as possible until the cup interferes with your weld. That can be either crowding or the ceramic itself can mess with the characteristics of the arc, especially if there is a coating of metalization on the surfaces of the cup.

Open end of the puddle? That sounds wrong unless you are keyhole-ing the joint, which I tend to hate. I like a tight fit, melt the surface, add rod, and then push then melt the puddle through the joint. Works for me on most metals, especially alum.

Re: When To Change Argon Cylinder?

Originally Posted by HRTKD

When doing the butt welds, I would get a horseshoe shaped puddle, with the open end going towards the filler. I would wait for the horseshoe to change into a full circular puddle before inserting the filler. That took a lot of time.

That's because you don't have enough amps for what you're trying to do assuming the previous post with 105-110A is still true. 1/8" thick aluminum requires at least 125A and that's on the low side. Lots of folks have said the same thing...crank the heat up, but it seems you don't want to do that for some reason. Crank the amps up, hit the pedal hard enough to get a puddle going in 1-2 seconds or you're going to put too much heat into the work and you won't be able to add filler fast enough to cool the puddle and create a bead.

A few posts back you said you needed to move on to welding joints. Why? If you can't lay down a reasonably consistent, even bead on a flat plate, how are you going to get anything acceptable on a joint with additional factors making it even harder? That approach will do nothing but make it take even longer to get acceptable results. If you can't walk, you sure can't run.

Re: When To Change Argon Cylinder?

Originally Posted by shovelon

I still see some black pepper flake contamination so you might want to up your cfh a bit. And check your stickout and arc length. I like 1/2 diameter to 3/4 diameter nozzle opening. And arc length about the distance of the diameter of your tungsten. So stickout a little less than 1/4" for outside corners with a #7 cup, to about 3/8" stickout for inside corners with same #7 cup. And arc length of 3/32" to 1/8" max. Sometimes I ride the puddle close and lift right when I cram the rod in from the side. DO NOT DRIBBLE the rod in. Stomp the pedal, cram the rod, and haul azz. You need to outrun the heat saturation flow.

My stickout is the full size to match the cup. I've been using a gauge so that I'm consistent. Less stickout than that, right? I didn't adjust the stickout at all for the different welds. I'll have to switch that up next time.

When doing the butt welds, I would get a horseshoe shaped puddle, with the open end going towards the filler. I would wait for the horseshoe to change into a full circular puddle before inserting the filler. That took a lot of time.

Re: When To Change Argon Cylinder?

I still see some black pepper flake contamination so you might want to up your cfh a bit. And check your stickout and arc length. I like 1/2 diameter to 3/4 diameter nozzle opening. And arc length about the distance of the diameter of your tungsten. So stickout a little less than 1/4" for outside corners with a #7 cup, to about 3/8" stickout for inside corners with same #7 cup. And arc length of 3/32" to 1/8" max. Sometimes I ride the puddle close and lift right when I cram the rod in from the side. DO NOT DRIBBLE the rod in. Stomp the pedal, cram the rod, and haul azz. You need to outrun the heat saturation flow.

Re: When To Change Argon Cylinder?

Got a couple of hours of welding practice in today. I tried welding joints using the coupons I cut up last week.

Bottom to top, butt weld, butt weld and 90° outer corner. The middle butt weld looks different because I felt I wasn't getting enough filler in the weld so I double dabbed the filler instead of a single dab. That middle weld is done right to left and I'm not very good at starting at the right edge. Then again, I'm not very good at ending on the left side either. The bottom weld, I started in the middle and went to each edge.





Fillet weld. Another case of not ending well. Not a great start either.



Same fillet weld. This angle highlights how little filler I am getting into the weld, as well as how much black crud is in the weld.



I know I have a long ways to go.

Tungsten: 3/32" 2% Lanthanated
Current: 105 to 110 amps
Frequency: 110
Balance: 30/70
Filler: 3/32" 4043
Gas: Argon @ 14 CFH, measured at the torch. .5s Start, 7s End
Cup: #7 using a stubby gas lens
Pulse: None
Welder: PrimeWeld TIG225X

Re: When To Change Argon Cylinder?

Making progress on laying beads on flat material. It isn't perfect, but it's way better than I was seeing a couple weeks ago. I filled in some holes and that worked better than I expected. I have a bunch of welding coupon material coming this week. I need to progress to welding joints.

A couple changes that I made that are positive.
1. Removed the protective layer on the 3/4" steel that I'm using for my welding table. Top, joined sides and the bottom where the ground clamp attaches.
2. New ground clamp from US Forge. It's better, but the OEM cable is kind of wimpy. I'm trying to figure out if I can simply replace the cable (maybe 8 awg at best) with thicker cable or if I need to replace the dinse connector also.
3. Used the gas flow meter at the torch to adjust the Argon flow. I had to increase the flow to get to ~14 CFH.
Attachment 1726657

Re: When To Change Argon Cylinder?

Originally Posted by cornchip

i didnt say give up or dont try it. but you dont even know the very basics of welding yet, or so it sounds. learn to walk before you try to run. aluminum is difficult if your not sure what your doing ,as i said before, as many variables can be a bit off and cause trouble. if you dont yet have the knowledge to identify the cause of the problem then how can you correct it.
your thought of a low argon bottle making bad weld was probly a small breeze going through the garage instead. steel is more forgiving and has less variables to be concearned with. its like this, if you want to learn to drive, you wouldnt get in a 50' long tractor trailer with 18spd transmission. no you would want toyota corrola with auto trans. but do as you wish

That is the mindset of many schools. Steel historically has been cheap and the student has go navigate a gauntlet of processes before they are allowed to weld tig. So with the abundance of steel to pick off the floor steel it is. That was the way it was in my weld lab in college. Not that I did not learn anything but I spent a semester in oxy/acet then a year in a stick arc booth just to get to tig. I told the instructor that I had a job offer if I could tig alum and he put me in his booth next to his office. 2 weeks later I was welding thinwall alum tube. Key was getting real time instruction with both instructor and student behind the lens at the same time. With the abundance of knowledge on this forum there is no reason not to start with alum.

Re: When To Change Argon Cylinder?

Originally Posted by HRTKD

Just because something is difficult, doesn't mean I'm not going to try it. I'm making progress and learning a lot at the same time.

i didnt say give up or dont try it. but you dont even know the very basics of welding yet, or so it sounds. learn to walk before you try to run. aluminum is difficult if your not sure what your doing ,as i said before, as many variables can be a bit off and cause trouble. if you dont yet have the knowledge to identify the cause of the problem then how can you correct it.
your thought of a low argon bottle making bad weld was probly a small breeze going through the garage instead. steel is more forgiving and has less variables to be concearned with. its like this, if you want to learn to drive, you wouldnt get in a 50' long tractor trailer with 18spd transmission. no you would want toyota corrola with auto trans. but do as you wish

Re: When To Change Argon Cylinder?

Originally Posted by HRTKD

So what you're saying is that once I have aluminum figured out, everything else is gravy? I like that!

In the picture you provided, I take it that the gas lens is on the left? What's a good source for gas lenses? Given my track record with the collet/collet body, I need to have a replacement gas lens waiting.

I have a saying. "Alum tig is hard to learn but easy to master. Steel tig is easy to learn but hard to master". Kind of like learning to drive a car. Many a driver can never make the switch to a manual transmission and give up in short order. But if you learn to drive on a stick, you know how to drive most anything.

Re: When To Change Argon Cylinder?

Originally Posted by HRTKD

So what you're saying is that once I have aluminum figured out, everything else is gravy? I like that!

In the picture you provided, I take it that the gas lens is on the left? What's a good source for gas lenses? Given my track record with the collet/collet body, I need to have a replacement gas lens waiting.

Only if you are cognizant of real world physical characteristics of steel. Really I think of it like, the same good practices and habits you need to do to learn/master aluminum, reap the same rewards when welding steels.

Re: When To Change Argon Cylinder?

Originally Posted by shovelon

You are not alone. I teach newcomers alum first. Easier to see, and easier to discover problems and sort them out. Like your pepper flakes. Attachment 1726439

I see right off that your standard collet body and cup don't work well with alum. Turbulent air fouled gas flow recontaminates the surface of alum that the cleaning action of reverse polarity lifts contaminants off. A switch to a gas lens solved that same problem problem for me. Steel with that cup and collet body is not so much of a problem so newbies plod along thinking all is well. Then when graduating to alum the world crashes in on them. Sort out your problems now and the gains transfer right over to steel. Not so the other way. I have a saying the steel is easy to learn, but hard to master. Alum is hard to learn but easy to master. Any one of my graduates feel alum is easier to weld.

So what you're saying is that once I have aluminum figured out, everything else is gravy? I like that!

In the picture you provided, I take it that the gas lens is on the left? What's a good source for gas lenses? Given my track record with the collet/collet body, I need to have a replacement gas lens waiting.

Re: When To Change Argon Cylinder?

Originally Posted by HRTKD

Just because something is difficult, doesn't mean I'm not going to try it. I'm making progress and learning a lot at the same time.

You are not alone. I teach newcomers alum first. Easier to see, and easier to discover problems and sort them out. Like your pepper flakes. Attachment 1726439

I see right off that your standard collet body and cup don't work well with alum. Turbulent air fouled gas flow recontaminates the surface of alum that the cleaning action of reverse polarity lifts contaminants off. A switch to a gas lens solved that same problem problem for me. Steel with that cup and collet body is not so much of a problem so newbies plod along thinking all is well. Then when graduating to alum the world crashes in on them. Sort out your problems now and the gains transfer right over to steel. Not so the other way. I have a saying the steel is easy to learn, but hard to master. Alum is hard to learn but easy to master. Any one of my graduates feel alum is easier to weld.

Re: When To Change Argon Cylinder?

Originally Posted by cornchip

theres alot of variables tig welding steel but even more so with aluminum. a new guy can chase his tail for a long time with hardly any progress

Just because something is difficult, doesn't mean I'm not going to try it. I'm making progress and learning a lot at the same time.

Re: When To Change Argon Cylinder?

theres alot of variables tig welding steel but even more so with aluminum. a new guy can chase his tail for a long time with hardly any progress

Re: When To Change Argon Cylinder?

Hi,
Good thread, I'm in the same boat as the OP, except most of my problems are probably me.

I first learned to stick weld, then went to MIG.

Finally saw a good deal on a Thermal Arc 185 TIG and bought that.

Big difference, to me!

A lot more things to learn about, machine settings, grinding the Tungsten, ect., ect.

Things, experienced Tig Welders, probably don't even think about, but new info for the beginner.

I am today, going to go refill my Argon tank, and now that I am retired, try to fiqure this, TIG out.

Seems a very good skill to have, and worth the time to learn!

Re: When To Change Argon Cylinder?

I needed to upgrade the work clamp on my Weldpro tig machine. I could barely get the thing to open 3/4" wide. Found one at Blain's Farm and Fleet from KT Industries for just over $10. Opens the widest on any I've tried out so far and would fit over 2" exhaust fairly easily. So far it's working well.

By the way, I'm down to around 125 psi on a 42cf tank and my machine was still welding fine. I was at least able to complete my project last night.

Sent from my SM-G973U using Tapatalk

Re: When To Change Argon Cylinder?

Originally Posted by HRTKD

Thanks for the suggestions. Next practice session I'll try connecting the ground to the aluminum and see what happens. I'll check out the clamps at HD next time I'm there.

Harbor freight has a really nice 400A work clamp that runs about $15....seems just as nice as the Tweco it copies for a lot less.

For some work I use a cheap machinist's vise to hold the work. I welded a tab on it for the work clamp so it's a solid connection. At times that seems to work better than clamping directly to the work...just an option to consider.

Re: When To Change Argon Cylinder?

If you have an O/A rig, you could melt some copper (solid electrical wire conductor would work) onto the steel contact points of your work clamp...or even braze a couple of pre-1980 pennies to the contact points...

Re: When To Change Argon Cylinder?

i can tell right now you put the cart before the horse. aluminum is tempramental and hard to weld if you dont know what your doing. spend a while welding steel until you understand the basics. youll only slow your progress by continuing with aluminum, without first understanding the basics

Re: When To Change Argon Cylinder?

Thanks for the suggestions. Next practice session I'll try connecting the ground to the aluminum and see what happens. I'll check out the clamps at HD next time I'm there.