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Re: The Oh Fishall Fuel Pump Thread

The crappy thing is....................I have to do the welds on what I think is a straight line. I can't see the joint once the arc is struck. I just keep the gun moving in what I think is a straight line. This F'n sucks.

I can see fine where there's a huge gap because there's a lot of air space, but the rest............might as well use Braille.

Re: The Oh Fishall Fuel Pump Thread

Oh, What the Hell...........

I've been so upset about this, that I didn't want to get into it. But, there's another thread where a guy's having trouble welding a piece on a jeep frame..................

This is a breakdown of the ultimate ugly.

To give ya some background. I have this small bottle I bought when I bought my first wire welder (the little HH135), and it's still on the ORIGINAL FILL Now it's on the 'new' welder. I DON'T DO MIG. It's about 2 1/2 feet tall...........75/25 gas. I'm still at 500psi on it after all these years, and most of it was on this fiasco of a disaster.

Attachment 1729165

Attachment 1729166

I could NOT get a good puddle unless the damn welder was set on #3 tap, 50 wire speed. Hobart 190 wire welder.

If I kept the settings high, and ran fast, I got half azzed sorta results. At least a puddle, and a sorta bead. Anything lower on settings, and the puddle turned into a mess.................popping, no wet out, absolutely a mess.

It did well filling voids. I had about 1/4 max voids due to crappy fitup. I was surprised at how well MIG will fill a canyon. Not pretty, but fairly easy.

I have to drag when I weld. Don't gimme crap about it.........it's just the way I'm used to welding. I'm a stick, and flux core, guy. My eyes are so bad that I can't see the damn joint behind the nozzle as I drag. Not enough light, and I'm near sighted in the left eye, and far sighted in the right eye Add cataracts to the mix, and ya got a HOLY MESS.

Anyways................if this helps anybody, I'm cool with it. You have to stick with the proper parameters,, and modify your travel speed to suit the parameters. You can't weld like you're used to welding with other processes. (I don't want to figure out pushing the gun, but I have to I guess)

K'kins had just about enough of me on Saturday. I was "grouching, and grinching" and she was fed up with it. So.................when I get some free time, I guess it's time to learn to use this crap.

Re: The Oh Fishall Fuel Pump Thread

Originally Posted by Zimm

Did you figure out the leak?

Oh yeah, I did that before I installed it. It was just frustrating to chase the leaks LEAKS for all that time. I made a mess of the welds And I felt like an idiot trying to get my damn mouth around the stinkin' tube to blow into it while plugging it with my free hand K'kins thought it was funny.

Re: The Oh Fishall Fuel Pump Thread

Did you figure out the leak?

Re: The Oh Fishall Fuel Pump Thread

We topped off when we got to Bristow, and ran 120 miles to Stillwell (about 5mi from the Ark border), switched to the front tank before the turnaround, then topped off again in Muskogee on the inbound trip. It took gas on the second top off, so it's a success Full flow, pump handle locked on max. It just needed more space for air flow between the inner/outer hose!!!!!!! And maybe the slight improvement on the incline helped to drain the pooled gas that works its way back into the outer hose from the full tank sloshing around. Either way............we're in business!!

"i would have to build a guard to protect the filler assembly from a tire blow out." Absolutely, I've been thinking about it. I hadn't thought about a blowout, but was thinking about rocks being thrown up by the tires.

As far as the dood that was closer.................he either gets off his butt, and finishes out what we paid him for, or he's gonna get a very unfriendly visit. This trip today cost a ton of money.

Re: The Oh Fishall Fuel Pump Thread

Now, assuming your test run proves it works, i would have to build a guard to protect the filler assembly from a tire blow out.

Re: The Oh Fishall Fuel Pump Thread

Well.............I guess it's done. I'm so ashamed of the work that I don't care to show it.

I have welds that trail off into outer space, nowhere near the line. Huge problems with burn through. AND I CHASED LEAKS FOR ABOUT AN HOUR AND A HALF.

I never got the pie shaped filler right, and wound up using the best of the worst that had some gaps. It's murder trying to fill gaps on 16ga pipe Filling the gaps caused huge droops inside the pipe that had to be hogged out with the die grinder (Thank God for the electric DeWalt die grinder).

I have to admit that I can't run MIG for crap. Actually, never really was good at it when doing thicker STRAIGHT stuff. The thin walled exhaust pipe handed me my head on a platter.

I don't know if it had to do with working outside, but I couldn't get the welder to run on low volts with slow wire feed. I had to run fairly hot with fast wire speed........just to get a good arc, and a decent puddle. I was running 35psi gas, so I figure I was getting some shielding. When the welder ran good, it ran good, but otherwise...........it had a lot of problems with the wire stubbing/popping. Polarity was right, so that wasn't an issue.

Anyways.........................here it is in all its ugly glory

Attachment 1729105 Using the hinged piece to allow for really precision adjustment of the fitup was a good idea. I gained a good deal of positive slope that should help drainage in between the outer/inner hose. And, using 2" exhaust pipe made for a ton of air void near the filler neck, where it has had a tendancy to pool. I hope to God that I got it right this time.

If we can get ahold of a guy, and he's around on the 4th.................we intend to make about an 80mi round trip tomorrow. I'll top it off before we leave, run off the tank all the way there, and fill it before we head back. That should tell me if the new filler neck is working. 40 miles, running empty, should burn about 5-6 gallons..........enough to allow for gas sloshing back up into the outer hose, and enough tank space to find out if it'll take gas again after the top-off.

Was a miserable day, and the chest is hurting a bit..............I'm hoping it's just muscular. So...................after it was all put together.............K'kins said I could have a bonus Beer Nite. She's a peach. She has a tiny cough lately........I hope she sees what's happened to me, and starts to think about quitting.

Got lined out for a visit with an ENT dood on Tuesday (for the sinus mass thing), and approvals for a lung dood later this month, with a biopsy scheduled sometime in the same period.

So................................

Re: The Oh Fishall Fuel Pump Thread

sammm, trying not to get personal, but is the vision problem cataracts?...sounds like it.

Re: The Oh Fishall Fuel Pump Thread

I can't see WTF I'm doing!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! GAWD WHAT A MESS Attachment 1729090

Re: The Oh Fishall Fuel Pump Thread

Hard stuff, especially, but not limited to external cuts screams tool post grinder. I know you don't have one but I also know you could build one. Carry on.

Re: The Oh Fishall Fuel Pump Thread

Attachment 1729079 The hose fits nicely, which was the point of the whole exercise I guess

Cut up some pie shaped filler strips for the elbow tomorrow, and weld them up............and hopefully it's a done deal.

Re: The Oh Fishall Fuel Pump Thread

Attachment 1729074 The part of the filler neck that attaches to the underside of the bed has a nipple for the inner hose. This is the part that's hard to compensate for when fitting everything up. If the rest of the elbow is too close to this nipple, the inner hose can't make the turn towards the tank.

Attachment 1729075 I was able to trim the exhaust pipe to fit the clearance for the nipple, and keep it relatively level with the top of the tank inlet.

Attachment 1729076 The Sch 80 pipe doesn't perfectly fit the hose. I blew this off the first time around, and just tightened the crap out of the clamp. I figured that this time, it should be done better...........and made to fit better. Being behind the rear wheels, this area gets a lot of spray when it's raining. Hate to have any water get in the tank.

Attachment 1729077 Turned a piece of pipe stub so it would jamb into the part, and tacked it to another piece of pipe for padding the part. I didn't do a great job padding. I just slopped the metal on as best as I could. I had one Hell of a time seeing the difference between adjacent beads when welding (shrug). Probably would have done better if the part was in bright sunshine. Anyways.......is what it is. I probably woulda done better using the stick welder, but I was worried that the metal was too thin.

Knocked the high spots down, and put it on the lathe. I will NEVER do another buildup with that stinkin' flux core. It's hard as diamond, and between embedded slag where the wire brush wouldn't reach, and the interrupted cuts, I ruined a good insert on the tool. 7018 turns like butter, next time I'll either use that, or MIG.

Attachment 1729078 The insert wasn't cutting too good after it got chipped, but I figured I'd go ahead and just keep it in the tool. No point in ruing another one. The surface finish suffered, but it's gonna be inside a hose............so it's not the end of the world.

Re: The Oh Fishall Fuel Pump Thread

IT HOLDS AIR!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Walk awayyyy from the welder............................................ .

Re: The Oh Fishall Fuel Pump Thread

Back At It

Between not welding for about a month(?), and the continuous eye deterioration (left eye worst), it felt funny to weld again. I truly can't see too well these days, especially running self shielding flux core. It's pretty glary stuff.

And this crap is round

Attachment 1729062 I just sorta turned the welder up to where I thought it might be in the ballpark. Turns out, it was running a bit hot

Attachment 1729063 I don't have a positioner, and I have to brace the gun with my left hand to keep it steady...........so I weld stuff like this flat if possible. But it requires a few restarts as I move my bodkin around the pipe. I ain't no pipe welder

Attachment 1729064 ok.................

Attachment 1729065 ok................

Attachment 1729067 not so ok...................... I got some porosity when I messed up one of the transitions between welds. Soon as it cools, I'll leak test it, and if it holds air..........................I AIN'T GONNA MESS WITH IT Sonethin' about letting sleeping dogs lie.....

Re: The Oh Fishall Fuel Pump Thread

I bought a flat deck truck like yours. When I went to fill it up at the local gas station the owner put down a 6x6 block and had me drive the back wheel up on it. Must have been a common problem.

Re: The Oh Fishall Fuel Pump Thread

NO WELDING FOR YET ANOTHER DAY.

Attachment 1729024 This is getting ridiculous...........

Having extra time on my hands, I decided to tweak the coupler, and add a chamfer to make feeding the inner hose easier.

Attachment 1729025 I prefer a boring bar over a form tool for this kind of stuff. No chatter.

Attachment 1729026

All of the parts are ready for fitting, and welding.........if the weather ever breaks.

Attachment 1729027 The 2" diameter exhaust pipe is partly cut to create a hinge. This will allow me to fit it pretty precise.........better than I was able to do with the previous design.

I've done the best I can, under the circumstances, to create the largest air space possible. I'm thinking this ought to do the trick.

Attachment 1729028

Re: The Oh Fishall Fuel Pump Thread

Originally Posted by farmshop

From the picture sam it appears the fill end is lower than the top of the tank is this the case or is it an illusion from the picture? I would try to get more slope on the fill pipe if possible. Almost every flat bed I have been around has a refueling issue because the fill pipe was an after thought and ran too flat. We had a Ford like yours that worked good but the fill was through trap doors in the deck so you better fill before loading up

I probably have the same trap door deal. I need to drill out the drain holes in the wells.............if they get plugged, water can run into the filler cap.

Yeah..........both the filler hoses are a bit below the tank inlets. I'm working on the filler neck today. It's dried out a bit here.

Re: The Oh Fishall Fuel Pump Thread

From the picture sam it appears the fill end is lower than the top of the tank is this the case or is it an illusion from the picture? I would try to get more slope on the fill pipe if possible. Almost every flat bed I have been around has a refueling issue because the fill pipe was an after thought and ran too flat. We had a Ford like yours that worked good but the fill was through trap doors in the deck so you better fill before loading up

Re: The Oh Fishall Fuel Pump Thread

Attachment 1728998

First gasoline put in the tank.........Ten gallons after the hose was first hooked up. THIS DID NOT FILL THE TANK

Second time gasoline put in the tank...........The pump was allowed to run until it shut off. THIS COMPLETELY FILLED THE TANK

THE ABSOLUTE NEXT TIME GAS WAS INTRODUCED..........IT WOULD BARELY DRIZZLE INTO THE FILLER NECK......IT WOULD ONLY TAKE GAS AS SLOW AS I COULD RUN THE PUMP I'd probably still be at the damn gas station tonight if I'd taken the time to feed the tank a teaspoon at a time.

So............AIR IS NO LONGER ESCAPING FROM THE TANK AS THE GAS IS INTRODUCED

For the Keyboard Commandos......................it should be apparent to even the dullest blade in the bunch, that the only thing that changed was gasoline becoming trapped in the filler hose somewhere, and blocking the bulk of the air needed to vent the tank.

The new corrugated inner hose is 1.25" diameter. The Sch 80 pipe has an original inside diameter of about 1.375".

I have no idea how the inner hose orients itself inside the Sch 80...........it might rest on the bottom, or it might be jammed against the top of the pipe somewhere along its length. If the assembly is dry, as it was the first 2 times gas was put in the tank...........The 1/8" clearance between the inner hose, and the Sch 80, would pass sufficient air. It wouldn't take a lot of gas to partially block an air void of 1/8" if the inner hose is against the top of the Sch 80.

So...........the elbow has to be made out of 2" OD thin wall exhaust pipe, and the straight run to the existing outer hose has to have the largest inside diameter possible.

The bored out Sch 80 now has an inside diameter of approximately 1.50". This is only .250" shy of the original outer hose diameter. And, because the inner diameter of the Sch 80 now has a larger radius, the inner hose can be jammed against the top of the pipe, and still have a large air void around its diameter.

Re: The Oh Fishall Fuel Pump Thread

Meh.... the only cows I ever liked were on my barbeque anyway...

Re: The Oh Fishall Fuel Pump Thread

Originally Posted by Oxford1

So your working hypothesis is that the entire vent space is completely obstructed by liquid gasoline, such that the entire fill tube must have some point in its length that is below the level of the lowest point of the attachment of the fill hose to the tank, and said low spot is creating a trap that prevents the tank from filling- BUT the low spot only works part of the time, so the first two times you filled it up the low spot didn't matter.

Also, it isn't a pressure fill. If you are going out an open spout, that gasoline is by definition not under pressure. The only pressure in that system anywhere is the pressure that you would measure at the bottom of a full column of liquid in the fill neck- and there isn't one of those.

I get that you specialize in reinventing the wheel and making it square, then feeding off the pats on the head you get for how hard you have to work because you have square wheels. I can't imagine that anyone with a lick of sense looks at this and says "I'm going to have to remember this, that guy really knows what he's doing." There's been several experienced guys who aren't me give you very good advice on how to put an end to this foolishness and you have dismissed them all, out of hand. None of this would bother me, except you keep making the point that you can't keep your animals fed because you're always broken down. What I think it really is, is that you'd rather be broken down than feed your livestock, because nobody pats you on the head for feeding your livestock. The only creatures in the whole story that deserve any sympathy are your cows.

👏👏👏👏, nailed it.

Re: The Oh Fishall Fuel Pump Thread

Originally Posted by farmersammm

When I completed the original repair, I put 10gal in the tank, and it took it fine. Then we ran a long trip the next day, and I completely filled the tank that day on the way home. So, at this point it was topped off (and leaked if you remember)

Fast forward to this week............I ran another fairly long trip, and burned what was left in the tank before switching to the front tank. On the way home, I stopped to refill the back tank, and it wouldn't take gas. It was/is probably down to maybe 1/4, or less at this point. This is what made me start a redo of the original repair. I don't have enough air space to handle any pooled gas in the filler hose. It stands to reason, that after a full fill, the gas worked its way up the filler hose, and is sitting there. I'd imagine it does it on the front tank too..........but the front filler hose is original, and has adequate space to handle any pooling gas.

Like most of the stuff I do, this is yet another one-off. I really didn't understand the workings of the filler system when I started, and have learned how it works since I've had to rebuild it. Ford had their sht together, but I didn't actually understand how it worked. Interesting thing.......they abandoned this design about 2yrs after this truck was built. They now have a completely separate vent line.

So your working hypothesis is that the entire vent space is completely obstructed by liquid gasoline, such that the entire fill tube must have some point in its length that is below the level of the lowest point of the attachment of the fill hose to the tank, and said low spot is creating a trap that prevents the tank from filling- BUT the low spot only works part of the time, so the first two times you filled it up the low spot didn't matter.

Also, it isn't a pressure fill. If you are going out an open spout, that gasoline is by definition not under pressure. The only pressure in that system anywhere is the pressure that you would measure at the bottom of a full column of liquid in the fill neck- and there isn't one of those.

I get that you specialize in reinventing the wheel and making it square, then feeding off the pats on the head you get for how hard you have to work because you have square wheels. I can't imagine that anyone with a lick of sense looks at this and says "I'm going to have to remember this, that guy really knows what he's doing." There's been several experienced guys who aren't me give you very good advice on how to put an end to this foolishness and you have dismissed them all, out of hand. None of this would bother me, except you keep making the point that you can't keep your animals fed because you're always broken down. What I think it really is, is that you'd rather be broken down than feed your livestock, because nobody pats you on the head for feeding your livestock. The only creatures in the whole story that deserve any sympathy are your cows.

Re: The Oh Fishall Fuel Pump Thread

Engineering had a newer, better idea, Marketing eventually told engineering "You are wrong."

Re: The Oh Fishall Fuel Pump Thread

"They now have a completely separate vent line."

They had it for decades before the design that is on your truck.

Re: The Oh Fishall Fuel Pump Thread

And now, we have another heavy downpour. The rain is killing the work flow