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Re: Tig vs multi-process Mig/Tig/Stick

Originally Posted by Danialtmrc

I am also confusion between TIG vs MIG welding, which is more stronger and efficient. I have read in some other article that TIG is more stronger and more strength. Can you clear my Confusion. Thanks

Many writeups online already.

Search,
https://www.bing.com/search?q=streng...e1417c45f2483f

Examples,
https://weldersmen.com/tig-welding-v...ding-strength/

https://skilledwelder.com/tig-vs-mig-welding-strength/

Re: Tig vs multi-process Mig/Tig/Stick

I am also confusion between TIG vs MIG welding, which is more stronger and efficient. I have read in some other article that TIG is more stronger and more strength. Can you clear my Confusion. Thanks

Re: Tig vs multi-process Mig/Tig/Stick

Originally Posted by FlyFishn

Thanks for the feedback.

Can you give any more detail on how the machine handles tig welding thicker metal? If you have the current cranked up pretty high do you find it hits the duty cycle at all? I'd be curious on your cooler experience also - I assume you weld enough to make the cooler worth-while.

Have you run stick with it at all? What can you say about it on stick if anything?

It handles thicker metals quite nicely. Made some new suspension links for my Jeep out of 2" diameter .25" wall chromoly and had to weld in the bungs for the rod ends. No problem - 190 amps or so. Have welded some 3/8" thick metal tabs onto 1/4" plate for a buddy. No problem - 210 amps, iirc. Welds 1/4" aluminum just fine (6" coupons) - fillet and outside corners - 180 amps. Have never hit the duty cycle. Can't say that I've pushed the machine that hard - I don't do production work with it.

The cooler is a nice thing to have. Welding at 145 amps will get a #9 torch pretty hot real fast. 200 amps will really start to cook an air cooled torch and my fingers quickly.

I've never run stick with it - not my juju.

Re: Tig vs multi-process Mig/Tig/Stick

Originally Posted by INXS2

I bought a Everlast MTS 251 Si about 5 or so years ago and have had zero problems with it, except for the first worthless manual(new online manual is very good). I bought a Everlast MTS 221 STi about a year to a year and half ago because I wanted an AC/DC multi purpose welder (manual was very good!). I would like to see a chart on voltage/wire speed put on these welders but it's a learning curve for me. I'm a retired aircraft mechanic and I needed the welders just to putts around in my garages. The only problem I've had has been getting answers from one tech which I've taken care of. I've had no problems with either machine and being a hobbyist they work great for me. I'd buy them again. If I was a full time 40 hour a week I'd give some consideration to buying something from a local shop just for service (in case it were need).

Thanks for the post. I was warned about the lack of substance manual with the PowerArc 210STL I bought. I had already downloaded the PDF though so it is a non-issue. There isn't much in there I will need to reference, its pretty easy to navigate the controls - not much compared to the EXT's (tig machines, 210, 255, etc).

Re: Tig vs multi-process Mig/Tig/Stick

Originally Posted by robert-r

I have an Everlast 255EXT. Bought it new about a year and 1/2 ago. I have had zero issues with it. Recently added a cooler. I'm a hobby welder of 2 years tig experience and use it about 4 -5 days a week anywhere between 1 to 3 hours per day. I'm still learning/practicing tig welding. Finally getting to where I can make things with it and be happy with the results. For the money, I could not find a better a better machine with similar features. A Dynasty 280DX is the welder of my dreams or maybe a HTP. Just can't justify the price as I have no plan for welding professionally.

I'm aware of what has been written regarding warranty issues with Everlast. I think some of it is unwarranted as it comes from non-owners bashing the product. I've read more than one post where someone has been upset with Miller, too. In my case, I'm not located all that far from Everlast's repair facility and shipping would not kill me. That was a factor in my purchase decision. Would I buy another Everlast machine? Right now, I would say yes. Give me a few more years... and that could change. Time will tell.

Thanks for the feedback.

Can you give any more detail on how the machine handles tig welding thicker metal? If you have the current cranked up pretty high do you find it hits the duty cycle at all? I'd be curious on your cooler experience also - I assume you weld enough to make the cooler worth-while.

Have you run stick with it at all? What can you say about it on stick if anything?

I picked up a PowerArc 210STL stick machine and got a bunch of tig stuff for it also just to mess around with. I am not planning on getting gas for a while, so I won't be trying tig with it (DC machine only) for a while. I need a compact/portable stick machine so I figured I'd go with an Everlast to give them a trial run. I've only burned about 4 6010's on it so I know it works, but don't have much experience to speak much about it yet.

Re: Tig vs multi-process Mig/Tig/Stick

I bought a Everlast MTS 251 Si about 5 or so years ago and have had zero problems with it, except for the first worthless manual(new online manual is very good). I bought a Everlast MTS 221 STi about a year to a year and half ago because I wanted an AC/DC multi purpose welder (manual was very good!). I would like to see a chart on voltage/wire speed put on these welders but it's a learning curve for me. I'm a retired aircraft mechanic and I needed the welders just to putts around in my garages. The only problem I've had has been getting answers from one tech which I've taken care of. I've had no problems with either machine and being a hobbyist they work great for me. I'd buy them again. If I was a full time 40 hour a week I'd give some consideration to buying something from a local shop just for service (in case it were need).

Re: Tig vs multi-process Mig/Tig/Stick

I have an Everlast 255EXT. Bought it new about a year and 1/2 ago. I have had zero issues with it. Recently added a cooler. I'm a hobby welder of 2 years tig experience and use it about 4 -5 days a week anywhere between 1 to 3 hours per day. I'm still learning/practicing tig welding. Finally getting to where I can make things with it and be happy with the results. For the money, I could not find a better a better machine with similar features. A Dynasty 280DX is the welder of my dreams or maybe a HTP. Just can't justify the price as I have no plan for welding professionally.

I'm aware of what has been written regarding warranty issues with Everlast. I think some of it is unwarranted as it comes from non-owners bashing the product. I've read more than one post where someone has been upset with Miller, too. In my case, I'm not located all that far from Everlast's repair facility and shipping would not kill me. That was a factor in my purchase decision. Would I buy another Everlast machine? Right now, I would say yes. Give me a few more years... and that could change. Time will tell.

Re: Tig vs multi-process Mig/Tig/Stick

[COLOR=#333333]I Robert Steven would say just buy a welding machine and stick to it for atleast 4 to 5 years, have your hands on it and then go for any other thing, there are kinda alot of things inside a [BLOG-SPAM LINK REMOVED] and in machines of tig welding, there are also much complications in tig welding gases, alot to discover yet. Good Luck mate

Re: Tig vs multi-process Mig/Tig/Stick

Originally Posted by G-ManBart

I think the 210EXT does a really nice job on aluminum and the owner of Everlast told me he used the Dynasty 210 as a model when he worked up the specs....on paper it looks pretty close.

Interesting as well as just a tiny bit fishy.

I bet it does look really close on paper then. Hmmm.

I have to wonder though if actual factual independent testing of those specs would tell the same story. Be nice to know if you really can get similar performance at 1/3 the cost of a blue one.

They are pretty good looking machine I recon.

https://www.everlastgenerators.com/p...owertig-210ext

Re: Tig vs multi-process Mig/Tig/Stick

I agree, multi-process machines do a few processes and can be conveinient, but you sacrifice quality. You may be able to weld tig, stick, mig, fluxcore, etc. with one machine but you wont be able to get all the features that come with single process machines. Save up and buy multiple quality machines, or you'll only wish you had downthe road.

Re: Tig vs multi-process Mig/Tig/Stick

I Robert Steven would say just buy a welding machine and stick to it for atleast 4 to 5 years, have your hands on it and then go for anyother thing, there are alot of things that gets involved in tig welding, there are also much complications in tig welding gases, alot to discover yet. Good Luck mate

Re: Tig vs multi-process Mig/Tig/Stick

Originally Posted by FlyFishn

Was that an Everlast machine? I see in your sig you have a 210EXT - the next size down from the 255.

On the point of the different model welders - is there much you can offer on how that 210 performs on aluminum? It seems to be a very similar machine (lacks sine wave for AC, but has the other waveforms), just lighter on the amps and duty cycle compared to the 255. That's where I think the 255 is the contender over the 210 but I'd be curious on your experiences, if you've done any aluminum to get a decent run with the 210.

It was an Everlast....meant to say that. It was a stick welder that worked fine, but the display developed a gremlin where the numbers would change drastically, but the welding performance stayed the same. They sent me two different boards to change and the issue didn't go away. Set it at 120A, run a bead and it would display 80, run another bead and it would display 140....stuff like that...all while having the exact same bead characteristics, so same output. At that point they offered a replacement unit or full purchase price credit towards another machine.

I think the 210EXT does a really nice job on aluminum and the owner of Everlast told me he used the Dynasty 210 as a model when he worked up the specs....on paper it looks pretty close. To be fair, anything in the 200A range is probably best limited to 1/4" aluminum or thinner as a general rule. Yes, you can push a bit farther...might have to add some pre-heat or even some helium, but most of us probably don't want to mess with that regularly. For a long time I only had the Everlast set up air-cooled, and that kept me from using it a bunch on aluminum because I had the Miller set up water-cooled....much nicer to run on higher amps.

I'm sure it's me, but I get slightly better results on aluminum with my Syncrowave 250DX or even an older Syncrowave 250 than I get with any of the inverter machines....and I've used several other brands. I've spent time with two machines hooked up next to one another trying to get identical results and haven't been able to quite get there. It's really a minor difference, but I can see it. It's been a while since I tried that, but I have a suspicion that I need to dial back the amperage on the inverter machines a bit more...they tend to run a bit hotter. I was getting identical bead profiles but couldn't quite get the mirror finish shine I can with the transformer machines and that means the bead isn't freezing as fast, so probably just a bit too hot. I recently added a cooler to the Everlast so I plan to play around with settings on aluminum more and see if I can't get that last little bit. I tend to set up and run, run, run when i do stuff like that so it just wasn't going to happen with the air-cooled torch setup...now I don't have an excuse!

Re: Tig vs multi-process Mig/Tig/Stick

If you want an aluminum welder, I'd look for a used transformer machine ala Syncrowave 250 -- or even a straight sine-wave 330A/BP -- long before I'd spend as much (or far more, if it's a 330A/BP) on a crap-shoot Chinese inerter...but that's just me. Your need to stack them in like cordwood to replace them like toilet paper would probably be next to nil.

Re: Tig vs multi-process Mig/Tig/Stick

Originally Posted by G-ManBart

I think I had to pay shipping when I returned a defective welder that was 6 months old, but they gave me full purchase price credit towards another welder and took off about $100 from the list price as well as upgraded to the better torch sets...so it seemed like a fair deal.

Was that an Everlast machine? I see in your sig you have a 210EXT - the next size down from the 255.

On the point of the different model welders - is there much you can offer on how that 210 performs on aluminum? It seems to be a very similar machine (lacks sine wave for AC, but has the other waveforms), just lighter on the amps and duty cycle compared to the 255. That's where I think the 255 is the contender over the 210 but I'd be curious on your experiences, if you've done any aluminum to get a decent run with the 210.

Re: Tig vs multi-process Mig/Tig/Stick

Originally Posted by G-ManBart

Holy spelling horror field batman...

Edit to add: I think I had to pay shipping when I returned a defective welder that was 6 months old, but they gave me full purchase price credit towards another welder and took off about $100 from the list price as well as upgraded to the better torch sets...so it seemed like a fair deal.

Holy english lesson batman, you want perfect spelling dont go looking at us idiot welders, we to stupid to finish school and know what we do.

If you're gonna be a dick at least do it properly and and correct every single spelling and grammar mistake I made.

Re: Tig vs multi-process Mig/Tig/Stick

Originally Posted by ttoks

Here an interesting thought, Everlast's Canadian warranty terms and conditions (I'm using the canadian ones because good luck finding the T&C's for they're U.S sales online, I've tried) state that 30 day's after purchase the purchaser is responsible for all shipping, handling and insurance costs to and from the repair facility to have the machine repaired under warranty, if they deem that your packaging isn't to they're standard they will charge you to repackage it for return.

Where as HTP's warranty includes all shipping to and from the repair facility, and often with the bigger companies (lincoln, Miller, ESAB ect) repair's can be done at the dealer for them.

How confident are you in a machine when the manufacture isn't confident enough to cover shipping to have it repaired under warranty?

That is ignoring the avalanche of horror stories of user's that have actually tried to get they're everlast machines repaired under warranty, with some of them taking 6 months or more, and other where an obviously defective unit (things like board damage, missing and loose electrical connections, missing reinforcement around capacitors on board's causing them to break off ect) has been deemed as damaged by the end user and warranty refused, after having it sit at everlast's repair facility for months.

Looking at the spec sheet alone they look like a great value until you realise where they actually cut the corner's, one is obviously the build quality but another is the service side, they're banking on warranty and service being such a pain that people pay they're 2 grand or more for a machine and simply dont follow through with it when it breaks.

Holy spelling horror field batman...

Edit to add: I think I had to pay shipping when I returned a defective welder that was 6 months old, but they gave me full purchase price credit towards another welder and took off about $100 from the list price as well as upgraded to the better torch sets...so it seemed like a fair deal.

Re: Tig vs multi-process Mig/Tig/Stick

Originally Posted by FlyFishn

So the selling point really comes down to the frustration of support "when" TSHTF. If I buy 2 255EXT's and one goes down, I can send it off and run the 2nd one while the 1st is being repaired - and still be $ ahead of Lincoln or Miller. If I bought 2 HTP's for the same reason - I'd be $ down because they cost more up front, yet I'm still in the same boat of sending off for repair. So unless I have a backup machine I'd be down the same way I'd be with an Everlast. Not that I'd buy 2 machines right off the bat - but down the road it might be the way to go. Or, by that point down the road if there is something else that hits the market and if my current machine at that point has no problems it could be the back up for the new one.

Here an interesting thought, Everlast's Canadian warranty terms and conditions (I'm using the canadian ones because good luck finding the T&C's for they're U.S sales online, I've tried) state that 30 day's after purchase the purchaser is responsible for all shipping, handling and insurance costs to and from the repair facility to have the machine repaired under warranty, if they deem that your packaging isn't to they're standard they will charge you to repackage it for return.

Where as HTP's warranty includes all shipping to and from the repair facility, and often with the bigger companies (lincoln, Miller, ESAB ect) repair's can be done at the dealer for them.

How confident are you in a machine when the manufacture isn't confident enough to cover shipping to have it repaired under warranty?

That is ignoring the avalanche of horror stories of user's that have actually tried to get they're everlast machines repaired under warranty, with some of them taking 6 months or more, and other where an obviously defective unit (things like board damage, missing and loose electrical connections, missing reinforcement around capacitors on board's causing them to break off ect) has been deemed as damaged by the end user and warranty refused, after having it sit at everlast's repair facility for months.

Looking at the spec sheet alone they look like a great value until you realise where they actually cut the corner's, one is obviously the build quality but another is the service side, they're banking on warranty and service being such a pain that people pay they're 2 grand or more for a machine and simply dont follow through with it when it breaks.

Re: Tig vs multi-process Mig/Tig/Stick

You're right on the specs, if taken at face value.

Unlike the everlasts, HTPs are very reliable. In speaking with an HTP rep on the phone some time back, the few times they work on them has to do mostly with customers not taking care of them, like finding insect nests and mud-dobbers living inside of them, never cleaning out the inside of the machine when it has been exposed to a very dusty/dirty environment. I'm sure there were some duds here and there just like anything else; nothing is exempt from failure. But even now it's tough to find any instances of them breaking down; I think I read one somewhere recently, can't remember where if it was on a forum or social media. I remember one time I thought mine was acting up, but it turned out one of the wires in the 6-50 plug was loose because the screw was loose on one of the hot-blades and was arc'ing. Scared the crap out of me, because it would "overtemp" almost instantly, but once I found the issue, never had any problems since.

Re: Tig vs multi-process Mig/Tig/Stick

Just another thought, also - I'm content with dropping MIG for better TIG performance. If I need to lay metal down I can stick it. If cleanliness of the weld (steel) is desired then I could TIG it. Maybe further down the road I could look at MIG, but for now I think the TIG performance and balance of Sitck and Tig that I would have out-weighs anything I would gain with MIG.

Re: Tig vs multi-process Mig/Tig/Stick

I know most people on the forums rave about HTP. I'll pick on them (the brand) for a minute.

Invertig 221 (I don't see a non-special edition listed) 40th anneversary
$2595
3 year warranty
4-220a welding current
Duty cycles (Tig on 240v) are as follows:
20% @ 220a
60% @ 165a
100% @ 145a
Waveforms are as follows:
Square

Additional features:
Independent amperage adjustment on AC (positive and negative independently adjustable so as to tune the heat between the electrode and work)
AC balance 20-90% (would be curious how this and independent amperage adjustment above vary in results/application)
AC freq range 20-200hz
DC Pulse up to 999pps
64 memories for easy recall
Foot pedal control while in Stick mode
Spot time .1-10sec
Tig start - HF,

Manual states, on p11 for DC stick welding: "The only parameter that is adjustable is amperage. Hot start and arc force are not adjustable".


Everlast PowerTIG 255EXT
$2174
5 year warranty
5-250a (AC, 3-250a DC)
Duty cycles (Tig on 240v) are as follows:
60% @ 250a
100% @ 200a
Waveforms are as follows:
Advanced Square
Triangle
Sine
Soft Square

Additional features:
Tig start - HF or Remote Lift

.1-10Hz advanced pulse for thick material
DC pulse .1-500Hz (or, for direct comparison to HTP 1Hz = 1pps so 10sec/pulse-500pps, not sure why you'd have 10 seconds between pulses, though, or if that is even selectable - 1pps = 1hz so maybe they misplaced the decimal?)
AC pulse .1-250Hz (same conversion - 10sec/pulse - 250pps, same question on decimal placement)
Spot time 0-10sec
AC balance - 5-90%
Adjustable Arc Force
Adjustable Hot Start Time (0-2sec)
Adjustable Hot Start Intensity (0-100% amperage, I assume that is of full output capacity being 100%=250a. If it was not based on full amps then any percentage under 100% would be under the weld current - that makes no sense. Hot start = higher amperage than weld current then dropping to weld current, unless that is an inverted percentage - as in, say, 50% with a weld current of 90a would be 45a more = 135a? When you get up to the upper range - say 230-250a that inverted percentage doesn't work - you can't do even 10% at 240a as that would be 264a = 14a higher than max output).

Esab ET301i
Out of the price class, looks like it is somewhere above $6000
3 year warranty
Duty cycles (Tig on 240v, single phase) are as follows:
60% @ 200a (max on single phase)
100% @ 170a

Looks like it is limited to square wave. I won't dig too far in to the other specs/features - its out of the realm of possibilities on pricing but interesting to compare.

Same goes on pricing for the current Miller (MaxStar 280 equivalent = $5k^) and Lincoln (Apect 375 AC/DC, $6k^) variants. They are out of the price range for a reasonable comparison.

With the comparison between the HTP Invertig 221 and Everlast PowerTIG 255EXT - the specs are better on the 255EXT and it has 2 more years warranty for about $300 less. That isn't to say the owners of the HTP's are at much of a disadvantage, but looking at the specs it would appear one gets more "welder" for the money with the Everlast. In that last sentance it is based on the specs, not the company, ethics of the owners/management, ethics of salesmen, post-sale support, turn around time for repairs, what have you. Just specs.

Other options like the analog machines (Primeweld Tig225x, AHP AlphaTig's for example) I don't think are in the same comparison - there are a lot of features they don't have and don't hold a candle to the output and duty cycle.

If welding structural aluminum (angle, tubing - round, square, rectangle, C channel, etc) at respectable thicknesses (3/16"-1/4", upper end of what I could see myself welding down the road) requires 200a or more it doesn't make sense to get a lighter duty machine that will run thinner sheet aluminum or thinner structural stuff (1/8" wall/thickness tops) well, but struggles above it. If the amperage and duty cycle are there to go higher and will weld that thicker 3/16"-1/4" metal without hitting the duty cycle that makes sense. In better name brand machines that means a LOT of $.

For what a comparable Miller or Lincoln machine is (where I could get local LWS support) I could buy 3 of the Everlast PowerTig 255EXT's. If Esab or HTP - I still don't have local LWS support.

So the selling point really comes down to the frustration of support "when" TSHTF. If I buy 2 255EXT's and one goes down, I can send it off and run the 2nd one while the 1st is being repaired - and still be $ ahead of Lincoln or Miller. If I bought 2 HTP's for the same reason - I'd be $ down because they cost more up front, yet I'm still in the same boat of sending off for repair. So unless I have a backup machine I'd be down the same way I'd be with an Everlast. Not that I'd buy 2 machines right off the bat - but down the road it might be the way to go. Or, by that point down the road if there is something else that hits the market and if my current machine at that point has no problems it could be the back up for the new one.

Re: Tig vs multi-process Mig/Tig/Stick

Originally Posted by FlyFishn

Though, I would be curious on something really thin like .....

if you really are curious to see for yourself how that plays out, then you need one that is capable of such ability. Multi-process TIGs generally aren't from what I've seen.

Re: Tig vs multi-process Mig/Tig/Stick

Originally Posted by Oscar

It's actually AHP that is the "sister" company of Everlast. Esab is on a whole 'other level than AHP/Everlast

Yep that was it - AHP. I knew it was a yellow welder but got the brands mixed up.

Originally Posted by Oscar

There is no general answer to that question. You have to pick a machine and "dissect it" and continue the conversation with respect to that machine itself, or another specific machine. That being said, most will agree that top-tier TIGs do not have such a trade off. I can sustain a 4amp TIG arc with my 400A TIG using a 5/32" tungsten if I use the correct grind profile. Just food for thought.

On the 4 amps - thats awesome.

Originally Posted by Oscar

LOL. It's not so much using it as an welding current to weld something tiny, but more so of the secondary benefits such as when you taper down to control fish-eye crater cracks. Take two TIGS and two tiny "aerospace" parts being welded at 30A. One TIG is already at its lower limit so one cannot feather the pedal lower any further. The other goes down to low single-digits. I suspect the latter would be preferred as it gives more control to be able to taper down. Obviously I'm just making up that scenario about the aerospace part; I dont know if it even applies to that sector, just seemed like it might.

I can see the example you laid out pretty well. I watched one of Kevin Caron's videos yesterday where he was demonstrating a low amp arc - I think he was trying to run 5 amps. He was attempting a butt joint of 2 pieces of sheet metal. What metal he did melt didn't penetrate at all and 1/16" filler didn't flow. That gave a nice perspective of just how low that amperage is. Though, I would be curious on something really thin like razor blade edges, pop cans (not the top/bottom rings but the side walls), or aluminum foil how that affect of low amperage might be different. Yeah, one can argue those are impractical scenarios, its just a thought with an example to describe.

Re: Tig vs multi-process Mig/Tig/Stick

Originally Posted by Kelvin

Just out of curiosity, where would you ever use such low current? I can't think of an example. At 30V arc voltage, that's 120W. I'm not sure I have a soldering iron that goes that low.

LOL. It's not so much using it as an welding current to weld something tiny, but more so of the secondary benefits such as when you taper down to control fish-eye crater cracks. Take two TIGS and two tiny "aerospace" parts being welded at 30A. One TIG is already at its lower limit so one cannot feather the pedal lower any further. The other goes down to low single-digits. I suspect the latter would be preferred as it gives more control to be able to taper down. Obviously I'm just making up that scenario about the aerospace part; I dont know if it even applies to that sector, just seemed like it might.

Re: Tig vs multi-process Mig/Tig/Stick

Originally Posted by Oscar

I can sustain a 4amp TIG arc with my 400A TIG using a 5/32" tungsten if I use the correct grind profile. Just food for thought.

Just out of curiosity, where would you ever use such low current? I can't think of an example. At 30V arc voltage, that's 120W. I'm not sure I have a soldering iron that goes that low.

Re: Tig vs multi-process Mig/Tig/Stick

Originally Posted by FlyFishn

I think it was ESAB maybe that is a "sister company" to Everlast, the home office addresses are 2 different units in the same building.

It's actually AHP that is the "sister" company of Everlast. Esab is on a whole 'other level than AHP/Everlast

Originally Posted by FlyFishn

On the subject of aluminum - I think the 200 amp mark is about minimum for a decent aluminum Tig. If that is the running amperage that might mean a machine in the upper 200's to 300 amps to get a better duty cycle down around 200 amps. Then the question is at that amperage do I loose anything on the low end for light gauge sheet metal work?.

There is no general answer to that question. You have to pick a machine and "dissect it" and continue the conversation with respect to that machine itself, or another specific machine. That being said, most will agree that top-tier TIGs do not have such a trade off. I can sustain a 4amp TIG arc with my 400A TIG using a 5/32" tungsten if I use the correct grind profile. Just food for thought.