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Re: Generator 9000w to power ESAB Rebel EMP 215ic ?

I like this setup for generator
I shows the voltage and Hz without going out to generator in the rain to check .

Dave

Originally Posted by N2 Welding

I don't know the first thing about generators other than they cost way to Fk'n much money :/

Re: Generator 9000w to power ESAB Rebel EMP 215ic ?

I have use lot generators for job site.
You want standard type as will produce a true sign wave.
The lower cost generators have 10% speed variation
The mid range is about 5% speed variation.
The high end like Cat is about 3% speed variation.

Note 10% is good for just everything you would run.

Dave

Originally Posted by N2 Welding

I don't know the first thing about generators other than they cost way to Fk'n much money :/

Re: Generator 9000w to power ESAB Rebel EMP 215ic ?

I don't know the first thing about generators other than they cost way to Fk'n much money :/

Re: Generator 9000w to power ESAB Rebel EMP 215ic ?

What's wrong with the new HF 9000 watt inverter? https://generatorbible.com/generator...or/9500-57080/ or the champion inverter? https://generatorbible.com/generators/champion/_201067/

I have the champion and I love it. Runs everything in my house except the AC. Even runs my extra deep 3HP well pump. I wouldn't run the Champion you linked to as it is not an inverter.

Re: Generator 9000w to power ESAB Rebel EMP 215ic ?

Looking for a generator again and Tractor Supply has this one on sale atm $200 off. Not sure what the THD is as I can not find the information.

Champion Power Equipment 100110 11500/9200-Watt Portable Generator with Electric Start

https://www.tractorsupply.com/tsc/product/champion-power-equipment-9200w-portable-generator-with-electric-start?cm_vc=-10011

Re: Generator 9000w to power ESAB Rebel EMP 215ic ?

Originally Posted by tkevan

Maybe, but an 8k rated usually has a surge of well over 9k. The 215 will never pull 30+ amps or ESAB would not list a 30a circuit. You’re telling him to purchase a genset bigger than a Lincoln Ranger 250 (10k con) or Miller Bobcat 260 (9500w con) to run a 215ic?

No I don't tell people to do as I say with their own hard earned, money. Everything I say is merely a suggestion and/or opinion. That should clear that up from now on.

Re: Generator 9000w to power ESAB Rebel EMP 215ic ?

Originally Posted by Oscar

Yup, its all about headroom and frequency. If he uses one that can only provide that same exact amperage, and the un-loaded voltage/frequency is 60Hz, I guarantee you that when the welder is pulling 30A+ and thus fully maxing out the generator, the frequency will drop down to about 54-55 Hz, and the voltage will drop at least 15V to 20V. While 8kw is "listed" it sure isn't "optimum", at least not for the generator. Perhaps my suggestion could have been worded differently, because I didn't elaborate enough. That's my take on it.

Maybe, but an 8k rated usually has a surge of well over 9k. The 215 will never pull 30+ amps or ESAB would not list a 30a circuit. You’re telling him to purchase a genset bigger than a Lincoln Ranger 250 (10k con) or Miller Bobcat 260 (9500w con) to run a 215ic?

Re: Generator 9000w to power ESAB Rebel EMP 215ic ?

Yup, its all about headroom and frequency. If he uses one that can only provide that same exact amperage, and the un-loaded voltage/frequency is 60Hz, I guarantee you that when the welder is pulling 30A+ and thus fully maxing out the generator, the frequency will drop down to about 54-55 Hz, and the voltage will drop at least 15V to 20V. While 8kw is "listed" it sure isn't "optimum", at least not for the generator. Perhaps my suggestion could have been worded differently, because I didn't elaborate enough. That's my take on it.

Re: Generator 9000w to power ESAB Rebel EMP 215ic ?

Perhaps there is needed headroom for extra power to run additional tools like lights, fans, grinders etc. I can also see that if the gen is overpowered it will likely last longer as it is never struggling to keep up with the load. However when a budget is tight make due with what you can.

Edit: I'm still learning all this stuff so take anything I say with a grain of salt.

Re: Generator 9000w to power ESAB Rebel EMP 215ic ?

Originally Posted by Oscar

Yup, exactly why you need 50A running.

Why would he need 50a running when the max it would ever draw is 30a? The manual calls out an 8kw genset. Why would ESAB call for less than needed to run their system at full power?

Re: Generator 9000w to power ESAB Rebel EMP 215ic ?

Yup, exactly why you need 50A running.

Re: Generator 9000w to power ESAB Rebel EMP 215ic ?

Originally Posted by Oscar

30A of generator capability are only good for about 175A of MIG welding power. Really you need 10kW running to let a 200-class mig operate at full power. Bare minimum. 12kW+ running would be more ideal.

My 252i manual calls out a max inrush of 34.7a
The manual for the 215 calls out max inrush of 30a

Re: Generator 9000w to power ESAB Rebel EMP 215ic ?

30A of generator capability are only good for about 175A of MIG welding power. Really you need 10kW running to let a 200-class mig operate at full power. Bare minimum. 12kW+ running would be more ideal.

Re: Generator 9000w to power ESAB Rebel EMP 215ic ?

Originally Posted by N2 Welding

Yes I have an oxy set up. I'm just not as good at using it to make clean cuts. Yeah seems like a 15k would almost be trailer bound which is not as portable but none the less I'm not lifting a 200 lbs generator either.

I keep a 17.5/22.5 in the back of my work truck for running the plasma and compressor... it should be a bit bigger.. but it is what it is if you grabbed on of those gas powered compressors you'd save a bunch of power for the plasma.. I think my rolair compressor uses 13.5 amps running and will almost supply enoug air to run the plasma continuous... you can cut for about 3-4 minutes and then give it a 20-30 sec catchup period but my big plasma can draw 120 amps and the genny can only give me 50 at the welder plug(I can draw more but it will trip sooner or later) this leaves plenty for the compressor and other things I have going at the same time.

I used to handload a 10k genny all the time in the back of my lifted(6") pickup.. but that gets old

Re: Generator 9000w to power ESAB Rebel EMP 215ic ?

Yes I have an oxy set up. I'm just not as good at using it to make clean cuts. Yeah seems like a 15k would almost be trailer bound which is not as portable but none the less I'm not lifting a 200 lbs generator either.

Re: Generator 9000w to power ESAB Rebel EMP 215ic ?

Hi, I would think a 15kw generator would be getting too big and heavy to load up and move around
kinda defeats the purpose of some thing handy for mobile jobs. I find one of my most useful pieces of
equipment is my smaller Oxy Acc cutting set up the cylinders are not the smallest. about 2' tall and I always keep two spare full cylinders I have a full size Oxy propane set in the shop But the same problem. Too big and heavy to load
and handle. I think I remember from a previous post. You already have an Oxy Acc. cutting set

Re: Generator 9000w to power ESAB Rebel EMP 215ic ?

Using a plasma cutter and portable air compressor might be a little bit too pricey for a hobbiest considering I’d need 15kW of generator just for the plasma power supply with out even considering the power demand of a portable air compressor.

Attachment 1715740

Re: Generator 9000w to power ESAB Rebel EMP 215ic ?

Originally Posted by N2 Welding

Thank you tkevan. I’m not seeing similarly specked generators at same price point. 669 - 999 = a difference of $330.00 if I’m looking at the same unit you have in mind and that’s not even the dual fuel unit which is $100.00 more. Is there a coupon I’m not aware of that will make these priced about the same?

https://www.northerntool.com/shop/to...6833_200686833

Edit the very first picture in my first post is from the 215 manual and it recommends the use of an 8kW generator. After thinking it over a bit more, I’m thinking I need to do some more research. I’m wanting a a portable air compressor as well so to used with a TD 60i plasma cutter. I think Brand X was using a smaller 120v portable air compressor with one of his plasmas just not sure if on the 60i. Perhaps he was using the 60i with the smaller 40 amp torch.

Yeah, the 9000 surge Powerhorse is $919 right now, but that’s in the ballpark for cheap gensets with <5%thd. Next jump puts you at about $1800 for a north star and $3000+ for a namebrand. ( General/Honda)

Re: Generator 9000w to power ESAB Rebel EMP 215ic ?

Thank you tkevan. I’m not seeing similarly specked generators at same price point. 669 - 999 = a difference of $330.00 if I’m looking at the same unit you have in mind and that’s not even the dual fuel unit which is $100.00 more. Is there a coupon I’m not aware of that will make these priced about the same?

https://www.northerntool.com/shop/to...6833_200686833

Edit the very first picture in my first post is from the 215 manual and it recommends the use of an 8kW generator. After thinking it over a bit more, I’m thinking I need to do some more research. I’m wanting a a portable air compressor as well so to used with a TD 60i plasma cutter. I think Brand X was using a smaller 120v portable air compressor with one of his plasmas just not sure if on the 60i. Perhaps he was using the 60i with the smaller 40 amp torch.

Re: Generator 9000w to power ESAB Rebel EMP 215ic ?

^^ What he said. The HF Predators run something in the range of 23%THD. Look at the PowerHorse units from Northern Tools. They run <5%THD, and are about the same price. Your manual will have a KVA requirement for the 215. I doubt its 9000w, since the requirement for my 252i is 8000w.

Re: Generator 9000w to power ESAB Rebel EMP 215ic ?

When sizing a generator for welding, it's best to know the maximum wattage needed by the welder.

Look for the welder's "Imax" amp rating. Multiply this by the voltage listed by the manufacturer to get your max startup watts.

To run an inverter welder, look for clean power generators with 5% or less THD.

Generator 9000w to power ESAB Rebel EMP 215ic ?

I’m looking at the HF Preditor 9k genset to power the Rebel. I don’t understand how to figure out if the generator will have enough amps to power the Rebel at max output. Seems as though mig requires the most amps.

So if the generator puts out 9000 watts of 240v power would I divide the 9000 by 240 to give me the max output amps of the generator.

Example : max start up output 9000 / 240 = 37.5A ? Then normal running watts of 7250 / 240 = 30.20A

Would that be how the amperage is determined when only the output wattage is given for a generator?

Here is a couple of screen shots one of the Rebel Amp input requirements and one of the Generator I’m considering getting to use with the Rebel. Not sure if this 9k Preditor is a good enough genset to use with the Rebel. The price seems fair but not if it’ll cause problems with the Rebel.

Edit: It looks like this genset might not be a good candidate based on the verbiage in the third image stating it does not come with an appropriate line conditioner and surge suppressor.

Attachment 1715502Attachment 1715503 Attachment 1715512


Here is a couple more images of the generator. It tells how to determine watts used by multiplying the voltage by the amps but not the other way around.

Attachment 1715510 Attachment 1715511