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Re: Engine welder generator question

I purchased a generator this due power outage. I Live in California.
I pickup a Predator 4000 it will run my welder.
If you running stick it take a 10,000 watt 240 volt at lest.

I changed my to propane low cost and propane has a better shelf life than gasoline.

Dave

Originally Posted by koenbro

As I am watching the news about the power outages in California, I am interested in setting up a backup generator for my house. We don't have natural gas at the property so propane or gasoline/diesel.

Now the exciting question is to get an engine welder that can be used as a generator in an emergency. The house main panel is 150A so 18kW is the peak usage, but in a pinch we can do probably with ~12kW.

Any suggestions? Would a Trailblazer 325 do? Other recommendations? Thanks.

Re: Engine welder generator question

Originally Posted by koenbro

As I am watching the news about the power outages in California, I am interested in setting up a backup generator for my house. We don't have natural gas at the property so propane or gasoline/diesel.

Now the exciting question is to get an engine welder that can be used as a generator in an emergency. The house main panel is 150A so 18kW is the peak usage, but in a pinch we can do probably with ~12kW.

Any suggestions? Would a Trailblazer 325 do? Other recommendations? Thanks.

hey, if your still wanting a generator option... check out this CL ad from our Tucson CL might be worth ya takin a 150 mile drive

https://tucson.craigslist.org/for/d/...027525876.html

Re: Engine welder generator question

Originally Posted by G-ManBart

Since this thread isn't about liquid-cooled prime power generators, none of the systems discussed in this thread are intended to run continuously.

I have a 20Kw Generac on natural gas and it has to be shut down for an oil level check every 24 hours and an oil/filter change every 200 hours.

I also have a Hobart Champion Elite 11Kw unit (9.5Kw continuous) and they list no limitation on continuous running other than a daily oil level check and 100 hour oil/filter change and the fact that it'll probably only go about 12 hours on a full tank of fuel. If you connected it to a bigger fuel tank you could go 24 hours between oil level checks just like with the standby generator. I keep ethanol-free fuel in the Hobart and it sometimes sits 6 months or more between uses...no problems at all, but that's the only fuel it's ever had in it.

What are you basing the comment that generators don't rely on circuit boards to start? Maybe the kind that you roll around and pull start might not, but a standby generator sure does.

That depends on your definition of "circuit board" Current production Generac use Programmable Logic Controllers, and solid state modules instead of the boards they used to have. You don't diagnose the module, you rule out everything else, then condemn a module.

Re: Engine welder generator question

Originally Posted by G-ManBart

What are you basing the comment that generators don't rely on circuit boards to start? Maybe the kind that you roll around and pull start might not, but a standby generator sure does.

just a reference to the welder he's looking at getting which I have 3 of (Trailblazer) and 2 of em have smoked the circuite boards with very low hours on both.. he's in Phoenix I'm in Tucson (well I have a house and a shop in Tucson I actually live 30 miles west out in the desert, with what libs would consider way too many guns and alota space around me...) I used to be a military surplus importer and firearms manufacturer and class 3 dealer... I still have alota toys from my prior life.. including several military generators one is a 250KW multifuel built in a shipping container 2 50kw units setup for natural gas one at my truck shop the other out here and several lil 10kw units setup to run on propane used at a few permanent hunting camps... non of these have ever had a circuite board failure the occasional packrat incursion yes... as far as "on wheels" ya know it only takes me 30 minutes to put wheels under the 250kw (it loads onto a container transport) so is that what your refferin too? that big ol engine would be fun to watch someone pull start though

BTW with our fuel blends out here in AZ if I don't fire up the trailblazers at least once a week and run em, they tend to get skitish and start missin and bein general PIA... I'm very picky bout fuel quality with my engines as the combination of alota heat its already hard on air cooled engines as it is without adding low grade fuel to the mix... yea that heats another problem for air cooled stuff running continuosly it tends to wreak havoc on em when the air they are pullin past the engines already 114 degrees.. those are the days I drag out the Big 20 insteada onea the trailblazers its hard on air cooled generators too BTW

Re: Engine welder generator question

Originally Posted by monsoon-mech

the difference is that the dedicated generator is designed to run continuously and the welder is not, a propane or natural gas generator will not have any issues caused by fuel going bad from sitting while the welder if not ran regularily will turn into a major PIA as the carb/FI becomes fauled most generators are not dependant upon expensive circuit boards either which if allowed to sit tend to start having issues... while that welder is entirely dependent on them etc... because of this the generator becomes much cheaper to operate in the long run also remember out here in AZ we have a problem with the good ol packrat who loves to eat electrical wire insulation so be sure to setup whatever ya choose accordingly...

I live in the middle of nothing with ancient power lines bringing that thar electric stuff to the teepee. I purchased a standby generator big enough to operate the teepee. My wife developed copd and now needs a controlled environment. I now have a 22kw generac auto generator big enough to operate the whole teepee and the barn for me. I also have the portable large standby unit. I'm waiting for the "neighbors" to appear when the power goes out for the winter.
When I was a flyboy, I learned two things for sure....the runway behind me aint squat and redundancy is a good thing.

Re: Engine welder generator question

Originally Posted by monsoon-mech

the difference is that the dedicated generator is designed to run continuously and the welder is not, a propane or natural gas generator will not have any issues caused by fuel going bad from sitting while the welder if not ran regularily will turn into a major PIA as the carb/FI becomes fauled most generators are not dependant upon expensive circuit boards either which if allowed to sit tend to start having issues... while that welder is entirely dependent on them etc... because of this the generator becomes much cheaper to operate in the long run also remember out here in AZ we have a problem with the good ol packrat who loves to eat electrical wire insulation so be sure to setup whatever ya choose accordingly...

Since this thread isn't about liquid-cooled prime power generators, none of the systems discussed in this thread are intended to run continuously.

I have a 20Kw Generac on natural gas and it has to be shut down for an oil level check every 24 hours and an oil/filter change every 200 hours.

I also have a Hobart Champion Elite 11Kw unit (9.5Kw continuous) and they list no limitation on continuous running other than a daily oil level check and 100 hour oil/filter change and the fact that it'll probably only go about 12 hours on a full tank of fuel. If you connected it to a bigger fuel tank you could go 24 hours between oil level checks just like with the standby generator. I keep ethanol-free fuel in the Hobart and it sometimes sits 6 months or more between uses...no problems at all, but that's the only fuel it's ever had in it.

What are you basing the comment that generators don't rely on circuit boards to start? Maybe the kind that you roll around and pull start might not, but a standby generator sure does.

Re: Engine welder generator question

Originally Posted by koenbro

No i am considering my options for a 10kW unit. Interestingly up your generator without any welding function is not substantially cheaper than one of the Miller units.


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the difference is that the dedicated generator is designed to run continuously and the welder is not, a propane or natural gas generator will not have any issues caused by fuel going bad from sitting while the welder if not ran regularily will turn into a major PIA as the carb/FI becomes fauled most generators are not dependant upon expensive circuit boards either which if allowed to sit tend to start having issues... while that welder is entirely dependent on them etc... because of this the generator becomes much cheaper to operate in the long run also remember out here in AZ we have a problem with the good ol packrat who loves to eat electrical wire insulation so be sure to setup whatever ya choose accordingly...

Re: Engine welder generator question

Generac also makes a quiet series. They are not cheap.

I was working on a new 9 Killowatt Generac earlier this week. I had to step 20 feet into a walk out basement through a sliding door to turn off utility power to test it. I didn't think it started until I went back out.

Most all of the newest standby units are pretty quiet from inside the house.

Re: Engine welder generator question

Originally Posted by acoresair

What is a quiet brand in a generator?


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MQ Power has a division called “Movie Quiet” or something like that. I stood next to a 100KW unit (close enough to put my hands on it) and other than seeing the heat waves coming out of the exhaust, I could not tell that it was running.

Koehler and Onan both make very effective enclosures for some of their generators. It all depends upon the size of the generator and how quiet you want it to be.

In general, the lower the operating RPM, the quieter the unit.

Re: Engine welder generator question

What is a quiet brand in a generator?


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Re: Engine welder generator question

https://www.amazon.com/A-iPower-SUA1.../dp/B01E54MPKE

Best value in a portable clean-power gasoline generator.

Re: Engine welder generator question

Originally Posted by koenbro

No i am considering my options for a 10kW unit. Interestingly up your generator without any welding function is not substantially cheaper than one of the Miller units.


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That's why, to me, the welder/generator makes more sense, as it is a dual purpose unit and is likely to be used more often than a stand alone generator. I can power the house with it or take it to a remote location and weld with it or power up something there. Not something you can do with a Generac or other installed generator only rigs. I mounted my BC on small trailer I fixed up and can easily tow it with my riding mower or my Tacoma P/U if I need to take it on the road.

Re: Engine welder generator question

No i am considering my options for a 10kW unit. Interestingly up your generator without any welding function is not substantially cheaper than one of the Miller units.


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Re: Engine welder generator question

Originally Posted by koenbro

As I am watching the news about the power outages in California, I am interested in setting up a backup generator for my house. We don't have natural gas at the property so propane or gasoline/diesel.

Now the exciting question is to get an engine welder that can be used as a generator in an emergency. The house main panel is 150A so 18kW is the peak usage, but in a pinch we can do probably with ~12kW.

Any suggestions? Would a Trailblazer 325 do? Other recommendations? Thanks.

Did you ever follow through and get an engine drive welder??

Re: Engine welder generator question

Originally Posted by Bistineau

But it's a nice peace of mind knowing when the power DOES go out for whatever reason, you are prepared and set up to deal with it properly, IN ADVANCE. Having the other half's approval keeps thing smoother at home, too.

Oh no doubt... I was a boyscout before I spent almost 2 decades with Uncle Sam (heavily armed boy scout with a parachute) , I'm a firm believer in bein prepared for any situation, I used to import and sell military surplus arms and vehicles... theres a 50KW container mounted multi fuel generator sitting behind my truck shop just in case... its been there awhile gets fired up twice a month and runs through its cycle but has only actually been needed once when a flooded Santa Cruz river took out 3 power transformers.... power was out for 6 hours while they switched everything to the secondary transformers...

Re: Engine welder generator question

Originally Posted by monsoon-mech

If we do have outages here its usually during monsoon season and then only if ya are like me and live out in the country where some power lines are above ground and prone to poles falling or getting hit by a drunk etc... so realistically the TB will probably never get used as a generator... however its a good excuse to use with the other half to justify buying it!

But it's a nice peace of mind knowing when the power DOES go out for whatever reason, you are prepared and set up to deal with it properly, IN ADVANCE. Having the other half's approval keeps thing smoother at home, too.

Re: Engine welder generator question

Originally Posted by koenbro

As I am watching the news about the power outages in California, I am interested in setting up a backup generator for my house. We don't have natural gas at the property so propane or gasoline/diesel.

Now the exciting question is to get an engine welder that can be used as a generator in an emergency. The house main panel is 150A so 18kW is the peak usage, but in a pinch we can do probably with ~12kW.

Any suggestions? Would a Trailblazer 325 do? Other recommendations? Thanks.

Arizona is NOT California.. yet (let a few more relocate cause they can't handle the stupid high taxes and enviro insanity and yet they keep voting for demecrates and we might be california) here in AZ an particularly in Phoenix area we don't see the power outages like they have there... most of californias outages are the result of liberal policies taking priority over common sense...
If we do have outages here its usually during monsoon season and then only if ya are like me and live out in the country where some power lines are above ground and prone to poles falling or getting hit by a drunk etc... so realistically the TB will probably never get used as a generator... however its a good excuse to use with the other half to justify buying it!

Re: Engine welder generator question

Originally Posted by koenbro

As I am watching the news about the power outages in California, I am interested in setting up a backup generator for my house. We don't have natural gas at the property so propane or gasoline/diesel.

Now the exciting question is to get an engine welder that can be used as a generator in an emergency. The house main panel is 150A so 18kW is the peak usage, but in a pinch we can do probably with ~12kW.

Any suggestions? Would a Trailblazer 325 do? Other recommendations? Thanks.

In my hurricane and ice storm area, for years I have used my Trailblazer Pro 350D as backup power for my house. It has worked great. 12KW of power, and I have it sitting on top of a 66 gallon auxiliary tank on my welding trailer for 71 gallons of total fuel capacity. Typically I am powering the house on generator 3-5 times a year, every year. Sometimes for just a few hours, other times for a few days. I live on a farm in a rural area, so there are lots of times that a store will bring a tree down on the lines somewhere.

My home has a gas (propane) stove, water heater and furnace. Main electrical consumption is the 3 ton air conditioner, followed by the electric dryer.

The trailblazer has pulled the well pump (3/4HP 200' submersible), the air conditioner and ceiling fans, etc and we've been quite comfortable during outages. With its Kubota diesel, it has been quite reliable and it has powered the house through outages lasting 2-3 days on more than one occasion. At the same time it is pulling two refrigerators and a chest freezer

Personally, from a budgetary standpoint I like the idea of having one piece of equipment that serves multiple uses, as opposed to having to spend money on multiple pieces of equipment that don't get used every day. Mine is set up on a trailer so it's doesn't take much time to pull it over and plug it in.

Last year I picked up a good deal on a low hour used 17KW propane generator, and last month we finished installing a 200A automatic transfer switch on the power feed to the house. Hopefully in a few months I'll finish running propane lines and add a second tank so that if I'm gone and the power goes out the system will fire up and transfer over automatically, saving my wife the hassle of hooking up a manual generator.

Personally I think that you're on the right track. If you are operating a welding business, you have the added benefit of depreciating the welder / generator; whereas with a dedicated house generator there is no write off.

Re: Engine welder generator question

Originally Posted by Louie1961

This is why I would go with a dedicated diesel generator. Fuel economy matters when you are out for a week or more. Noise also begins to be a factor after a few days (speaking from experience after Sandy)

HUHH??

I find it very hard to believe a Diesel generator is less noise than a propane or gas job.

although it would be nice to run it off my home heating oil tank.

also, Diesel generators are NOT cheap$$

Re: Engine welder generator question

Just as an aside note; in this area up here one zone was out for 56 hours, another 60 hours and one 88 hours.

This is why I would go with a dedicated diesel generator. Fuel economy matters when you are out for a week or more. Noise also begins to be a factor after a few days (speaking from experience after Sandy)

Re: Engine welder generator question

Aren't some inerters also kinda finicky about the AC input they get, too? Seems like I heard that somewhere (don't own any inerters so take it FWIW)...

Re: Engine welder generator question

Originally Posted by koenbro

Am moving away from a trailblazer due to cost, and favoring a Bobcat 250 EFI. Can always use it in the field if ever needed as a welding source -- to power the Invertig as a stick welder.

That just doesn't make any sense to me. Why not just stick weld with the BC and leave the Invertig at home? The BC can also be set up to TIG weld if you need to do that, too, and it can wire weld with a spool gun attached to it.

Re: Engine welder generator question

Harbor Freight has their 9000 watt generators on sale for about $650 that have, I think, a 13 hour run time on a full tank of gas. I use one on my boat dock to raise and lower the boat. Then I have the Bobcat 225g as power backup for the house. Have never had to use it, but I have been wondering if the 8000 watt Bobcat would run the 4 ton Lennox AC system since it is one of the newer soft start compressor/blower units, that slowly build up to speed.

Re: Engine welder generator question

We have 3 ACs, two for the house (35A each) and a 24K BTU Mitsu minisplit for the garage. Obviously if the power were down in the AZ summer, I would not run the garage minisplit (nor would I weld) or the pool pump, just focus on keeping the house comfortable. Fridge, freezer, range are another 30A tops, but cooking would be only intermitent. So bare minimum is about 80A, and 100A tops is what I am thinking.

Very useful advice above guys, thank you all. Am moving away from a trailblazer due to cost, and favoring a Bobcat 250 EFI. Can always use it in the field if ever needed as a welding source -- to power the Invertig as a stick welder.

Checked he Honda generators but they don't offer 10KW -- the one they do is for standalone industrial applications and needs special ways to connect to the house. Seeing how sought-after are the old Lincoln engines, I am hoping that the Bobcat would keep its value.

Re: Engine welder generator question

I agree with you Willie, most home stand by generator dealers want to sell the most high $$ generator they can for your home. So they total up the entire electrical load of the entire house and spec the generator to power EVERYTHING at 100% power all the time, when you rarely NEED 100% power in most cases, on a continuous basis. When running on backup power you should pick and choose what is the priority things to power at the time.