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Re: Something new coming from Hypertherm

Originally Posted by jimcolt

When you build a dual voltage plasma system it involves a design for dual voltage capability on the main inverter power board, not just additional pigtails to adapt to different voltages. To be able to operate at both voltage levels and still provide the best possible cut quality and consumable life (and reliability) would require higher cost and more weight.....or you could compromise the consumable life / cut quality by using some of the same components (inductors, switching devices, etc) that would have to be compromised when not operated at their optimum voltage inputs. remember that when the torch puts out 30 amps with a 120 volt input it will draw twice as much current (Amps) as compared to running at the same output power on a 240 volt input.

Our Powermax30 XP is a dual voltage design....because there is a strong demand at that power level for the portability and ability to be able to be plugged in almost anywhere. The 30XP has similar thickness ratings as compared to the Miller 40 Amp dual voltage unit. In fact when operated on 120 volts the 30XP produces more power than the Miller on 120 volts.

When we planned for the 45 XP, it was decided that this is a machine that will get a fair amount of industrial use, a machine torch and interface, and that the majority of users would have 240 volt power (or generator power) available. We do "Voice of the Customer" market surveys pretty regularly and feel that we do understand what the majority of users want....those that need a dual voltage can go with the 30 XP or the Miller offering (which has less power on 120 volts than the 30 XP!, slightly more when on 240 volts, a design compromise). The 6500 watts of cutting power produced by the 45 XP is a lot more than the 5600 that the Miller unit can produce....so you will see faster speeds and thicker cutting with the 45 XP, as well as the ability to mark and precision gouge down to 10 amps.

Jim Colt Hypertherm

Awesome explanation as always Jim. The trade-offs in making the 45XP a dual voltage unit seem to suppress its advantages and key features, which I can say with first hand experience that the compromise wouldn't be worth it! It really shines in the DV-compromised areas. It's also good to know that a DV unit requires more than just a software tweak and a pig tail. Plasma considerations definitely seem more involved than those of welding machines when looking at DV.

Re: Something new coming from Hypertherm

Originally Posted by Oldendum

Some equipment is designed to be easily serviced in the field by the end user.

Attachment 1542311

Yes the famous prince of darkness

Re: Something new coming from Hypertherm

Originally Posted by ManoKai

... there is no professional back end {real customer service} when a unit releases smoke...

Some equipment is designed to be easily serviced in the field by the end user.

Attachment 1542311

Re: Something new coming from Hypertherm

Originally Posted by jimcolt

....We do "Voice of the Customer" market surveys pretty regularly and feel that we do understand what the majority of users want....Jim Colt, Hypertherm

100%++. We've submitted surveys and obtained detailed responses from Hypertherm. We've also experienced Hypertherm's outstanding customer service on several occasions.

Always amazes me how some humans chase down the penny to obtain the "cheapest" co$t on the front side {the purchase}, only to find out that there is no professional back end {real customer service} when a unit releases smoke or performs counter to purported expectations. Also interesting how some fabricators fail to see the light of Hypertherm's prowess in product design, engineering innovation, and USA humans in action.

Every rep, tech, sales, engineer, manager that I've have the fortune to meet face-to-face or via cell/email has been mission-focused. Illuminating.

Re: Something new coming from Hypertherm

If they want dual voltage, then China has a answer for them. Along with AC/DC tig, stick, mig,plasma, pulse in all processes, and any waveforms that a scope can come up with. Plus is will have 1000 buttons on the front of the machine with a Facebook interface. (to call ET home)

Re: Something new coming from Hypertherm

When you build a dual voltage plasma system it involves a design for dual voltage capability on the main inverter power board, not just additional pigtails to adapt to different voltages. To be able to operate at both voltage levels and still provide the best possible cut quality and consumable life (and reliability) would require higher cost and more weight.....or you could compromise the consumable life / cut quality by using some of the same components (inductors, switching devices, etc) that would have to be compromised when not operated at their optimum voltage inputs. remember that when the torch puts out 30 amps with a 120 volt input it will draw twice as much current (Amps) as compared to running at the same output power on a 240 volt input.

Our Powermax30 XP is a dual voltage design....because there is a strong demand at that power level for the portability and ability to be able to be plugged in almost anywhere. The 30XP has similar thickness ratings as compared to the Miller 40 Amp dual voltage unit. In fact when operated on 120 volts the 30XP produces more power than the Miller on 120 volts.

When we planned for the 45 XP, it was decided that this is a machine that will get a fair amount of industrial use, a machine torch and interface, and that the majority of users would have 240 volt power (or generator power) available. We do "Voice of the Customer" market surveys pretty regularly and feel that we do understand what the majority of users want....those that need a dual voltage can go with the 30 XP or the Miller offering (which has less power on 120 volts than the 30 XP!, slightly more when on 240 volts, a design compromise). The 6500 watts of cutting power produced by the 45 XP is a lot more than the 5600 that the Miller unit can produce....so you will see faster speeds and thicker cutting with the 45 XP, as well as the ability to mark and precision gouge down to 10 amps.

Jim Colt Hypertherm

Originally Posted by DerekV

I'm 100% with you on that one. It's a light and small machine, so having the ability to use 120v for the small/quick cuts anywhere would really compliment the portability of the unit. It's the same rationale as powerful, yet portable dual voltage welders. Obviously performance all around is compromised, but the convenience of being able to bring it pretty much anywhere for quick/little things is great.

Jim - realistically/theoretically, how much more are we talking for the customer? 10% or less? I'm not an electronics engineer, but the only real additional cost I see for the manufacturer (HT) is a little 240-120v pigtail, assuming internally the board wouldn't need any physical additions but rather just software tweaks for voltage detection and operating parameters. Again, I'm just taking wild guesses here. It's not like this machine can't already function efficiently and effectively in the 120v/20amp-friendly output range!

I think the 45XP is incredible - wouldn't trade mine for anything else in its class or price range - but I think a dual voltage variant would be worth the (guessing) small added cost. It'd also open it up to other users who don't have access to 240v yet. Oh well.

Re: Something new coming from Hypertherm

Originally Posted by Meltedmetal

What are you going to use for air service if it was on 120v?

I'd probably get something like this and make sure it's on the other 120v leg if possible:
https://www.makitatools.com/products/details/MAC5200

Believe it or not, it's what Chucke2009 used for years until he got his Plasmacam setup. It's not ideal, but it worked, and worked surprisingly well. It'd be perfect for little portable jobs.

Re: Something new coming from Hypertherm

What are you going to use for air service if it was on 120v?

Re: Something new coming from Hypertherm

Originally Posted by dragoneggs

...but still would like the versatility of dual voltage to give me options.

I'm 100% with you on that one. It's a light and small machine, so having the ability to use 120v for the small/quick cuts anywhere would really compliment the portability of the unit. It's the same rationale as powerful, yet portable dual voltage welders. Obviously performance all around is compromised, but the convenience of being able to bring it pretty much anywhere for quick/little things is great.

Jim - realistically/theoretically, how much more are we talking for the customer? 10% or less? I'm not an electronics engineer, but the only real additional cost I see for the manufacturer (HT) is a little 240-120v pigtail, assuming internally the board wouldn't need any physical additions but rather just software tweaks for voltage detection and operating parameters. Again, I'm just taking wild guesses here. It's not like this machine can't already function efficiently and effectively in the 120v/20amp-friendly output range!

I think the 45XP is incredible - wouldn't trade mine for anything else in its class or price range - but I think a dual voltage variant would be worth the (guessing) small added cost. It'd also open it up to other users who don't have access to 240v yet. Oh well.

Re: Something new coming from Hypertherm

Originally Posted by jimcolt

Adding dual voltage capability would increase the manufacturing cost, and the selling price of the Powermax45 XP. In our "Voice of the Customer" surveys over the last few years it was clear that a product of this capacity did not need dual voltage in order to satisfy the majority of potential customers. To run on a 20 amp 120 volt circuit the capacity would be the same as our Powermax30 XP operating on 120 volts. A household 120 volt 20 amp circuit can only produce 2400 Watts.....which means the practical cutting limit would be about 1/4" to 5/16".....any thicker cutting for more than a few seconds would trip the circuit breaker. Jim Colt Hypertherm

Thanks Jim... answers some of what I asked on another post but still would like the versatility of dual voltage to give me options. Hope to meet you at Fabtech!

Originally Posted by Bonzoo

Exactly. Common sense says the main reason for having a 45 , or larger burner, indicates someone is working with an abundance of 3/8 plus and has the welder to glue back together what he's cutting up( HF90 Coupon Model with 14 add on capacitor).......in which case the 230 access is a given.DV is a waste of effort in this case. With all this there is also a damn good possiblity of a good air source close by.......unless the potential buyer is in mommy's basement

Bonzoo, I'm not in my mommy's basement and I don't want to limit myself in the future. I am sure I could get along with a 30XP for most of my projects but it's not enough for a CNC table and a 240v is not portable in practice.

Re: Something new coming from Hypertherm

It's funny, can't give them away out here.. Most plasma cutters. Does not matter if it's Esab, Hypertherm,Victor.. The bigger they are the, worse it gets..(PNW) The smaller portable units have a much better market. You will take a beating, but mint new/used stuff for cheap, makes up for any loss..

Something new coming from Hypertherm

Originally Posted by Gamble

What's the used market look like for these now?

It sold in 24 hours if that says anything. Granted it was in really nice condition, came with cover + consumable kit, and still has nearly 2.5 years of warranty left. To be honest, I was a little worried. Asked $1525 and ended up settling on $1500. Didn't end up losing much since I got a deal on it to begin with and at the time the consumable kit came free.

My mentality was that if I didn't get 15, then I'd keep it and forget about the XP altogether. I'm glad it worked out how it did, and I'm sure the other guy is too. We both made out pretty good.

Re: Something new coming from Hypertherm

Originally Posted by DerekV

Sold my 45 yesterday and ordered the 45XP last night - can't wait!

What's the used market look like for these now?

Re: Something new coming from Hypertherm

If someone "has" to have the newer, shinier version I'll take that old,has been,antique off your hands for a reasonable price.
It must be in nice condition.
No redneck savage machines, please
PM me

Re: Something new coming from Hypertherm

Sold my 45 yesterday and ordered the 45XP last night - can't wait!

Something new coming from Hypertherm

Looks like an awesome system.

If anyone's in the market for a barely used, less than a year old PMX45, let me know. There's probably less than 15 minutes of arc time on it. Pretty much immaculate condition. I'll end the pitch there...let me know!

Re: Something new coming from Hypertherm

Originally Posted by jimcolt

Brandx,

Just like with new systems...we cannot elaborate on what may be coming out of our process labs before the product is ready. When we develop new processes (power levels, gouging, marking, cutting, etc.) we develop a set of desired specs then the engineers and technicians go to work. When the specs for the process are achieved, then reliability testing starts. The testing...if everything goes perfectly takes 6 weeks minimum, constantly cutting and benchmarking quality and life. It never goes perfectly, and can take a year or more to achieve the desired results. When new processes and products are done we will announce them. I agree with most of the things you say you want (as well as a few thousand other users), and that is what we use to develop new processes.....just takes time. Best regards, Jim Colt

I am thinking maybe even 25-30 amp nozzles with the ability to run a bit less amps acceptably. That would cover most of what I am looking for.
I have been working my own parameters for the finecuts, and I am getting somewhere too.. I just think there is a place lower amp standard consumables in some ranges where the fine cuts, and 45 amp standards nozzles could be improved.. In fact I know it for sure, by using different systems for a whole long time.. this is my little test piece on 22 ga.(.030) with fine cuts.. I will get more dross, then some of the hypertherm settings, but better overall cut quality.. (IMO) Some people will accept more of that sometimes, is other areas can be improved..

Lost all my settings in Sheetcam, so have to start over on everything anyway.. Crashed, and hit settings back-up.. Not a a good idea...
Not a huge deal , but there are more settings then just parameters lost..

Re: Something new coming from Hypertherm

These new parts just became available on Monday (Sept. 26) of this week.....so you won't see stock anywhere except at Hypertherm! The precision gouging was developed for automotive use...often in restoration and hot rod applications. It allows for low powered metal removal....think of removing just the first layer of a spot weld that holds sheet metal panels together....or to remove a nut off a bolt.....or to remove a rivet head. Takes some technique...but I like what I have used. The maximum control gouging process uses the secondary shield flow to control the gouging arc better, again so you can have better results when attempting to remove welds without impacting the base material. In the past I have said that the 45 to 60 amp plasma's aren't powerful enough for effective, productive gouging....now this new 45 amp unit is effective with the new gouging part design along with higher load voltage.

When the industrial economy slows.....like ours has for the last year....most companies lay off workforce. Hypertherm increases its R&D budget, moves production personnel into engineering labs and introduces new products. Never , ever a layoff. More to come! Jim Colt Hypertherm

Originally Posted by Silicon-based

The parts for what they call "maximum control gouging" (420419 for the nozzle and 420480 for the shield) seem to be what you are asking for. The 45XP manual lists a range of 26 - 45A for them.

The "precision gouging" parts (420415 for the nozzle and 420414 for the shield) are made for 10 - 25A but like Jim says would be only usable at the top of their range on the larger power supplies.

I have not found anyone stocking the new consumables but I plan to order some to try on my PMX85 when I find them.

John

Re: Something new coming from Hypertherm

Brandx,

Just like with new systems...we cannot elaborate on what may be coming out of our process labs before the product is ready. When we develop new processes (power levels, gouging, marking, cutting, etc.) we develop a set of desired specs then the engineers and technicians go to work. When the specs for the process are achieved, then reliability testing starts. The testing...if everything goes perfectly takes 6 weeks minimum, constantly cutting and benchmarking quality and life. It never goes perfectly, and can take a year or more to achieve the desired results. When new processes and products are done we will announce them. I agree with most of the things you say you want (as well as a few thousand other users), and that is what we use to develop new processes.....just takes time. Best regards, Jim Colt

Originally Posted by Brand X

So are these low amp standard type consumables going to have one amps size to cover the larger machines? I would like to see something that would at least get it down to around the 20 amp range.. I am not even sure if you need to shield them when you get down to the bottom. For cnc work.. Just does not kick enough metal up on thin ga to worry messing the nozzle up. I would think some of the issues with the new consumables would be making a new shield to go with the new low amp nozzles.. Just thinking out loud..

Re: Something new coming from Hypertherm

I am not asking about marking or gouging. Just low amp non- fine cut nozzles.. Something along the lines what Esab had for there PT-37 torch..20-30 amp nozzles.. That machine has a low-end of 15 amps.. was sweet for marking punch point, without getting into all sorts of fancy programing.. I can get cuts with my Victor machine that is outstanding because of the Lower amp nozzles.. Not finicky at all either.. I am going to run more fine cuts,and see where that will lead me to. (for now) I have not really explored what all they can offer.. A lot I don't know about them... I was still learning my Victor after 15 year with the one torch..

Re: Something new coming from Hypertherm

The parts for what they call "maximum control gouging" (420419 for the nozzle and 420480 for the shield) seem to be what you are asking for. The 45XP manual lists a range of 26 - 45A for them.

The "precision gouging" parts (420415 for the nozzle and 420414 for the shield) are made for 10 - 25A but like Jim says would be only usable at the top of their range on the larger power supplies.

I have not found anyone stocking the new consumables but I plan to order some to try on my PMX85 when I find them.

John

Re: Something new coming from Hypertherm

So are these low amp standard type consumables going to have one amps size to cover the larger machines? I would like to see something that would at least get it down to around the 20 amp range.. I am not even sure if you need to shield them when you get down to the bottom. For cnc work.. Just does not kick enough metal up on thin ga to worry messing the nozzle up. I would think some of the issues with the new consumables would be making a new shield to go with the new low amp nozzles.. Just thinking out loud..

Re: Something new coming from Hypertherm

Yes, The same gouging parts will work with any system with the Duramax torch. Problem is that the minimum amperage on the other Powermax units is either 20 or 25 amps. The precision gouging is designed for things like removing sheet metal spot welds without blowing through the second layer....requires very low amperage. Jim Colt Hypertherm

Originally Posted by Silicon-based

I see that there are gouging consumables for lower amp ranges ( 10 - 25 A and 26 - 45 A). I assume these will work with the Powermax 65/85 if they are set to the appropriate amperage?

Re: Something new coming from Hypertherm

I see that there are gouging consumables for lower amp ranges ( 10 - 25 A and 26 - 45 A). I assume these will work with the Powermax 65/85 if they are set to the appropriate amperage?

Re: Something new coming from Hypertherm

There will be some low amp consumables.....just won't be released until we are satisfied with them. This unit goes down to 10 amps.... Jim Colt

Originally Posted by mechanic416

I think Hypertherm was smart to call it the 45XP not bring it out as a hole new model to replace the 45.

The extra cutting power is what will sell this unit.

Putting the switch on the front will make a good selling point to some. I could care less were the switch was (as long as it wasn't on the bottom)

Removable torch and ground cables was a very good thing as it will make it easy to transport and store, without having to fight with them all the time.

The upgrade to the same torch as the rest of the powermax line was smart also.

"I" think Hypertherm should have also added some low amp consumables to this new package other then the fine cut's. If you have a plasma cutter that has ajustable amps you should have consumables to work at those amps not one size fits all.

my 2 cents