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Re: Can I get a 300cf tank filled?

Every gas supplier and location is different as mentioned.

Matheson in Ocala, Fl does not sell anything bigger than a 125 since their inception but they still deal in customer owned tanks in the larger sizes when they have them. When they don't they will still take your customer owned bottle and give you one with their name on it in order to get the sale and as long as you don't change suppliers or need to get gas elsewhere then they don't care and will treat any tanks you have customer owned or with their name on them as customer owned even though they never sold them because they know they do that all the time when they have no customer owned bottles which is most of the time. As long as you have an account and they see that size bottle exchanged before you will probably have no problem to get it exchanged again.

Re: Can I get a 300cf tank filled?

There really is no standard answer to this question...even within the same company, so the replies won't mean much unless you happen to live in the same area.

I bought a machine a while back and the seller included a 330 bottle of trimix that was empty, but in date. The bottle had an Airgas label on it, but the ring was from a company Airgas bought years ago. I stopped by the local Airgas, where they somewhat know me, bought a pack of contact tips as a token and then asked them if they would exchange the bottle for 75/25. Their response was "How do you have an owner 300? We don't sell those at all. In fact, there's no way to do an owner exchange in the computer, it has to be on lease...the computer won't even accept that." I didn't question them and just left.

I then called the next closest Airgas and told them what I had. They said "No problem, we can exchange it, but the manager has to approve it since it's been a while since we sold big bottles." They then told me the price, which was pretty ridiculous so I just gave them the old "okay, I'll try to stop by next week" and thanked them.

Then I stopped by my mom and pop LWS who looked at it and said "It's an X brand bottle, and they're no longer in business so I can get it filled but the date is almost up, so I'd like to get it tested, painted, replace the valve and then have it filled....call it $100". That's why they get almost all of my business!

Short version...it all depends, and the only way to know is to ask around. Around here at least two of the big shops will sell you a 300, but two others won't. I prefer to deal with the mom and pop shop since they're the closest and very helpful and usually have the best prices.

Re: Can I get a 300cf tank filled?

Welding supplies that never sold the size of cylinder to be exchanged/filled will NOT exchange it if it has their name on it or the name of another supplier that does not sell their cylinders. Honor among thieves... or rip off artists. They have also been known to confiscate cylinders that were never offered for sale. That's the reason for grinding the name off. Most suppliers will require proof you bought the cylinder from them or a recognized welding supply. If they did sell the size of cylinder then they will exchange it as long as they know you purchased a cylinder that size.

Re: Can I get a 300cf tank filled?

Originally Posted by gator9329

will they refill it if the ring is ground flat?

It is total F'ing BS that you can't own a tank with a gas companies name on them. That is what they try to give me 95% of the time because they don't have any customer owned in the big sizes to give you. If you want gas today you take the thing. NOW YOU OWN THEIR TANK WITH THEIR NAME ON IT and it doesn't make a damn what they say. They did it. It is yousr when they do that regardless of who's name is on it. Happens every day. People end up with their tanks because they gave them out as customer owned and they damn well know they do it.

Everywhere in Florida treats grind offs as customer owned. Half or more of their "CUSTOMER OWNED" inventory is grind offs. Matheson, Airgas and Praxair all take in and send out grind offs as standard procedure. Very likely you might get a grind offs.

The easiest way is to take letters down flush with a carbide burr. Then use a 1" drum sander in a die grinder. You should see the nasty grind offs that are around these days OMG. I think I could do a better job with a cutting torch. Lol.

Re: Can I get a 300cf tank filled?

I’d just like to say thank you to whoever resurrected this dinosaur, as it’s actually turned into an informative thread.

Re: Can I get a 300cf tank filled?

Neck rings are never welded on. The cylinder would be scrap if they were. Some sleeves are replaceable or the neck ring with threads for the cap is.

https://www.americap-mfg.com/cylinder-components.html

Re: Can I get a 300cf tank filled?

For the OP, about 50 years ago welding gas suppliers figured out that they would have a better revenue stream if they leased bottles to larger commercial customers rather than selling them, so over time they stopped selling the larger bottles. In most locations in the US, the largest bottle that you can buy new today is around 160CF.

If you buy older bottles and have a bill of sale, usually in any given market you can find at least one LWS that will fill them for you, as long as you give the a copy of your Bill of Sale from the bottle purchase. I've done this for 25 years.

One thing that is problematic though is that most of the places that actually fill the bottles are not set up to track owner bottles in the larger sizes. In the past twenty years two of my bottles have been lost by the refillers and had to be replaced. It also usually takes 1 - 2 months to get them back.

My owner bottles do not have a name on the ring, nor was one ground off. I bought my bottles in Chicago back in the mid 1990's, where there were a lot of larger owner bottles available in the 300CF sizes.

Re: Can I get a 300cf tank filled?

Most original neck rings are not just pressed on. See that weld around the neck. That attaches it to the bottle. They do regularly machine them off and reinstall new ones at some reman facilities.

Of course they sell faux covers that go over existing neck ring and make the tank appear to be "customer owned".

I see people laughing and saying a tank is ruined scrap if you grind the name off. That is anything but true. In all of Florida at ANY supplier at least. Grindoffs are everywhere and are totally legit by every one of the suppliers.

A very high percentage of "customer owned" tanks in any given suppliers inventory are not real but rather "grind offs" where the name has been ground off. They are often done horribly and NO ONE cares. They are traded freely as "customer owned" after that. It is actually getting harder to find/get exchanges for your customer owned bottles that are actually customer owned they want to swap you for. It is either take their grind off or no gas. I have even waited weeks for them to special order in customer owned from their main refill facility. Guess what. They were both grind offs.

Re: Can I get a 300cf tank filled?

At one time in my life I was buying over 24,000cf per month and getting great price.
Great contract price each bottle cost under $10.00 of 337cf to fill

Dave

Originally Posted by shovelon

At that quantity you would be on contract pricing.

Re: Can I get a 300cf tank filled?

Originally Posted by smithdoor

Odds are AirGas is look for large users
If buy 1,000cf of gas per month they have a good price.

Dave

At that quantity you would be on contract pricing.

Re: Can I get a 300cf tank filled?

Odds are AirGas is look for large users
If buy 1,000cf of gas per month they have a good price.

Dave

Originally Posted by gnm109

This is true . AirGas is expensive and difficult to deal with. I would always opt for the smaller LWS. I used to be with AirGas and originally bought customer-owned 160 c.f. cylinders for Argon from them. That was a long time ago and they were cheaper then.

I quit using them when they raised the price on a 160 Argon to $75 for an exchange. I went around the corner to a small store and the price was $45. I've been there ever since.

By the way, AFAIK, the only cylinders that AirGas sells are the 160's. They like to lease anything larger.

Re: Can I get a 300cf tank filled?

Airgas is now owned by Air Liquide. They're all about $$$$. They make their money from selling industrial gas. Selling welding supplies is just a convenience for some of their customers. I toured a $150 million Air Liquide cogen plant. They make enough money from selling just the argon that everything else is gravy. 1000 tons of oxygen per day. Any extra power they make is sold to the Alberta power grid. A 25,000 HP turbine powers the GE 80 MW generator. The heat from the exhaust produces steam they sell to Shell. They also capture the CO2 emissions from the Shell plant, that would normally go into the atmosphere, and purify it so sell to other customers. I asked about the difference between medical oxygen and welding oxygen. Exact same thing from the same tank but welders are more fussy about having the highest purity. There are monitors that constantly test the the purity.

Removing a neck ring is considered theft but having a lease cylinder that was never offered for sale isn't? They're trying to do cylinder tracking but it's never going to work. There are millions of cylinders out there that nobody knows the history of. Back when I first leased cylinders in 1981 it $25/cylinder per year which was reasonable. Need an extra cylinder in case you run out, no problem just bring the empty back in a couple days and no extra charge. Now it's just ridiculous what they charge. A guy up here left Air Liquide and started a welding supply and made millions selling and filling all sizes of cylinders. The established gas suppliers weren't happy. Years earlier they were charged with price fixing. A lot of people think diamonds have huge markup. Not even close to the markup on industrial gas. Oxygen can be 600%-800% or more. The initial cost of the air separation apparatus is why there are limited suppliers of industrial gases.

https://www.icis.com/explore/resourc...shell-s-plant/

Re: Can I get a 300cf tank filled?

Originally Posted by Charles Brown

It is a waste of time dealing with AirGas as an individual.

To solve the problem, find a hole in the wall mom and pop local welding supply hovel.

Guess what? This shop more than likely has an account at AirGas who handles their cylinder filling wholesale.

That way, you don't have to deal with the put down attitudes behind the counter at AirGas as a retail customer.

Instead, become the retail customer of the hole in the wall welding shop. If you go in there regularly, you will graduate from being a customer to being a friend.

Once you become a friend, you will never have any cylinder problems again.

This is true . AirGas is expensive and difficult to deal with. I would always opt for the smaller LWS. I used to be with AirGas and originally bought customer-owned 160 c.f. cylinders for Argon from them. That was a long time ago and they were cheaper then.

I quit using them when they raised the price on a 160 Argon to $75 for an exchange. I went around the corner to a small store and the price was $45. I've been there ever since.

By the way, AFAIK, the only cylinders that AirGas sells are the 160's. They like to lease anything larger.

Re: Can I get a 300cf tank filled?

AirGas is getting pretty crappy and even worse they don't care who knows it. they go up every year and last year tried to charge me nearly 150 bucks to swap out a 330 o2 cylinder. I didn't raise any fuss in the store but as soon as I left I called the outside sales guy that I deal with and he pulled it up and found they had tried to charge me the same rate they would charge some poor sucker off the street. I cant remember exactly what I paid but I believe it was around 65 bucks. we have a new mom and pop shop here and when my lease comes up I intend to turn it in and lease from the new guy. The down side is I have a 330 argon and a 330 C25 that belong to me that I haven't had any trouble swapping out at airgas and since the new guy has already sold one store to airgas I am reluctant to give up my airgas stamped tanks that belong to me. I also have a 80 C25, an 80 argon, and a O2 and acetylene 150 and 125 I think, all with airgas neck stamps so I don't have to worry about hydros they just swap them out. the tanks at work don't worry me but my personal tanks are another story.

Re: Can I get a 300cf tank filled?

I was paying under $10.00 per bottle 337cf for oxygen in 2003

Dave

Originally Posted by Kelvin

Much cheaper per cubic foot of gas to swap them out, compared to smaller bottles.

Re: Can I get a 300cf tank filled?

Originally Posted by Welder Dave

A lot of neck rings are just pressed on and can be popped off.

Yes, but technically that would be considered theft.

Re: Can I get a 300cf tank filled?

A lot of neck rings are just pressed on and can be popped off.

Re: Can I get a 300cf tank filled?

Originally Posted by smithdoor

I can not why most would use a 300 cf tank

Much cheaper per cubic foot of gas to swap them out, compared to smaller bottles.

Re: Can I get a 300cf tank filled?

I can not why most would use a 300 cf tank
They are big and heavy .
They hold 60 pounds of CO2 and tank is almost 200 pounds.
It size you use if going through a lot bottle's a week.
That what was responding too.

FYI: At time my I would go through over 20 bottles 337cf of oxygen a week and that is not fun.

Dave

Originally Posted by Oscar

Dave look at the original post date (and also read the replies).

Re: Can I get a 300cf tank filled?

300 cf cylinders are lease only here too, doesnt matter if it has a name on it or not. I have seen plenty of name rings ground off here, not even that good of a job either. Paint color doesn’t mean a thing here, paint it pink for all they care. They usually repaint them after a hydro test.
Im with everyone else, find a local LWS that is not Airgas, develop a relationship, and your bottle problems disappear. Hopefully you can make a nice gong out of your current culinder and recoup your money.

Re: Can I get a 300cf tank filled?

Originally Posted by Kelvin

...along with evil monsters like Airgas!

If they were the only place to buy gas, I'd quit welding.

LOL!!!!! you wouldn't believe how many guys I've talked to at the metal shops that say the same thing

Re: Can I get a 300cf tank filled?

Originally Posted by Oscar

It's Thanksgiving, not Halloween. Stop conjuring up the dead.

...along with evil monsters like Airgas!

If they were the only place to buy gas, I'd quit welding.

Re: Can I get a 300cf tank filled?

Originally Posted by smithdoor

Yes your out of money
The gas company is in business to make money.
Best way is to purchase the tank.
Most like 80 cf to 120 cf tank size I think that is about 30 pounds of CO2

Dave

Dave look at the original post date (and also read the replies).

Re: Can I get a 300cf tank filled?

Yes your out of money
The gas company is in business to make money.
Best way is to purchase the tank.
Most like 80 cf to 120 cf tank size I think that is about 30 pounds of CO2

Dave

Originally Posted by 700R

I haven't been around much lately, but I've ran into a problem and figured this is the best place to get an answer.
Early this past spring, I bought a 300cf O2 cylinder from a large seller on Ebay for a good price. He had about 40-50 of them available. I bought one and had it shipped to me. Upon receiving it, I noticed it had Airgas stamped into the collar. I thought, No problem right? I deal with Airgas for my smaller cylinders anyways. I call them to get a price quote on having it filled, and they said they couldn't fill it as I cannot "own" a cylinder that large. It must be leased from them. For them to fill it, I would have to sign at least a 1-year lease.

Most of you guys on here knew this already, but for me...I'm just a home hobbiest and knew nothing about it.
So what do I have here? A 100lb paperweight? What happens if I sign a 1-year lease to have it filled, then never renew it? Will they attempt a repo of sorts on my cylinder? Freeze my account with them voiding any future cylinder fills on my smaller ones too?
Is there any way they would "trade" me for a smaller cylinder? (On that point, whats the largest tank that I can OWN and have filled just like my current 80cf cylinder?)

I just feel like I got shafted out of $250 that I can never get back...

Re: Can I get a 300cf tank filled?

It's Thanksgiving, not Halloween. Stop conjuring up the dead.