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Re: Education - College vs Private vs Self Taught

Originally Posted by Sberry

I met someone while back and got around to welding, he is telling me he learn from Jim Lincoln,,,, ha, sort of but he knows all about it. I ask what rod,,, he is not sure but thinks they are brown, I ask, AC or DC buzzer and he is not sure but he is some kind of fabricator for sure. So, me and a Bud are driving by and we stop in, him and another bud are tring to weld something and my Bud says,,,, wtf, where you learn this while they are jizzing about the welder must not be right and all that. So one makes a smart about well,,, if you think you can do better. John says gimme and changes the dial from 70 to 140 for a 5/32 they trying to run. They shut up a bit after he burns a rod. One even brought me a job later and notice,,, oh, ok difference between their welding and ours.
I have met some decent 6013 self learners and sometimes really surprised. I met one the other day starts telling all he know and all the rods, about 1/2 right at best and I figure oh shat but I look at bumper he installed and a couple overheads and wouldnt have a problem paying him. I work with another guy knew just enough to ask when we got to something fussy but he made a career with 1/8 7014 and while he can run the others he grabs what he is used to. Working on equipment no one cares what it was welded with as long as it doesnt break or leak.
Going in to business is a whole different animal and some got the talent the day they start, some need to learn but the good ones have a gift. I been teaching my secretary/helper contracting and she will be better than I ever was or will be, just built for it in the same way many athletes or artists are. Although self-education can be an effective route to learning, it does not always guarantee the same level of knowledge and understanding that can be obtained at university or college. Taking a course and starting work straight away may seem attractive in terms of saving time and money, but it can lead to limitations in knowledge and skills. But at the university there was a lot of everything I didn’t need, I remember I looked for sources, research, and found help here for myself. Then I didn’t do anything at all. In general, I am against the university. While getting a job immediately after completing a course will be a faster way to jumpstart your career, investing time and effort into a university or college education can bring longer-term and sustainable results in your professional life. I have seen all types, some care some dont, some are content to be hand to mouth and some wanna get rich. I made mistakes of not getting help, want to do it all, thinking I understand when I dont etc, the list is endless.
nIf I was going to do it again would keep a keen eye out for someone looking to help someone and take advantage, they call that riding a horse to a show when the others are walking. I was smart azz no one wanted to teach. Makes it hard, end up with lots of "experience" .

This is a story, I'm tired of reading it.

Re: Education - College vs Private vs Self Taught

....AND PUT THAT FUUCCKKING PHONE AWAY!

Ain't that the truth. I was not in management when I was on the floor, just a worker bee and it irked me to no end seeing people on their phone at all hours. I'd be no good owning a shop, first time I saw someone on their phone I'd drop a hammer on it...then smash the phone.
I'd go up on the floor lunchtimes when I moved to the office just to have a wander around and see what was up and not bolted down :-). You'd look in the lunchroom, maybe dozen or more people there, every farking one of them on their phone and not a word being spoken. I remember going to the lunchroom to have lunch you could barely hear for the yakking going on, 'ya know actual face to face conversation, times change and I'm old and grumpy I guess.

Re: Education - College vs Private vs Self Taught

Why would go to college for a exposure to diverse subjects, and social interaction That would be wast of money a student will pay for with a back breaking loan.

I am college educated but work my way in college buy iron work and welding and I start in high school.

The college experience is A LOAD OF CRAP and promoted by college just to money off students

Dave

Originally Posted by RicardoHoff

College education offers structured learning, exposure to diverse subjects, and social interaction. Private education may provide tailored approaches and personalized attention. On the other hand, self-taught learning empowers individuals to curate their educational journey at their own pace and convenience. The spectrum of educational choices parallels the range of controversial speech topics explored at https://paperial.com/blog/controversial-speech-topics оust as education paths differ, controversial topics spark debate, encouraging critical thinking and dialogue. Both conversations exemplify the essence of choice and diversity in education and discourse. The comparison prompts us to value individual learning preferences while embracing the breadth of opinions that drive intellectual growth and societal evolution.

Re: Education - College vs Private vs Self Taught

Of course, it is good to study independently, but still, specialized educational institutions will provide the more necessary knowledge.

Re: Education - College vs Private vs Self Taught

Originally Posted by Freebirdwelds

Well this is another one of those questions...........

Some people have the right aptitude and mechanical ability to be self taught. Some people don't, and you can't teach that.

Some people can go to a welding school and actually learn something. They can train the right minds to have a good clue but unless you can combine it with real world training/experience. From wrenching, torch skills (real torch skills), 80% out of position welding, weight lifting, Isometrics, mechanical aptitude, math skills, climbing skills. etc. But you will be ready to sit or stand all day welding cogs together as they go by.........
Hell I could go on but pffft...

So far in my experience most "welding school hires" get a big shock when they realize the amount of work it takes to fab and weld. What! you didn't know that your clothes are a consumable, yeah you'll get burned. AND PUT THAT FUUCCKKING PHONE AWAY!

College? Kind of an Oxy Moron for this business. I guess it's OK if your planning on wearing L.L. Bean all day.

And last but not least, a lot of the younger generation are a complete waste on life. They have no manual labor ability/aptitude for a lot of this kind of work. A lot of them just want to "pose" or be posers. They just want to hang out all day with stinger in hand, waiting for 2 pieces of steel to touch and "there up". Dam I wish I learned the Spanish in skool, cause some of them boys get it......

Now I'm only speaking in my 45+ year break/fix/non-union iron working/heavy industrial construction world, your mileage may vary.

I can't say too much about cellphones. Mine comes out a lot. I have the weld spatter burned into it to prove it, too! LOL.

Combination flashlight/camera/calculator.

It IS infuriating when someone is on Facebook or TikTok on the job.

Sent from my Lincoln Buzzbox using Tapatalk

Re: Education - College vs Private vs Self Taught

I agree 👍 with your statement Some people have the right aptitude and mechanical ability to be self taught

Never have regrets Sberry you made to retirement

Dave

Originally Posted by Freebirdwelds

Well this is another one of those questions...........

Some people have the right aptitude and mechanical ability to be self taught. Some people don't, and you can't teach that.

Some people can go to a welding school and actually learn something. They can train the right minds to have a good clue but unless you can combine it with real world training/experience. From wrenching, torch skills (real torch skills), 80% out of position welding, weight lifting, Isometrics, mechanical aptitude, math skills, climbing skills. etc. But you will be ready to sit or stand all day welding cogs together as they go by.........
Hell I could go on but pffft...

So far in my experience most "welding school hires" get a big shock when they realize the amount of work it takes to fab and weld. What! you didn't know that your clothes are a consumable, yeah you'll get burned. AND PUT THAT FUUCCKKING PHONE AWAY!

College? Kind of an Oxy Moron for this business. I guess it's OK if your planning on wearing L.L. Bean all day.

And last but not least, a lot of the younger generation are a complete waste on life. They have no manual labor ability/aptitude for a lot of this kind of work. A lot of them just want to "pose" or be posers. They just want to hang out all day with stinger in hand, waiting for 2 pieces of steel to touch and "there up". Dam I wish I learned the Spanish in skool, cause some of them boys get it......

Now I'm only speaking in my 45+ year break/fix/non-union iron working/heavy industrial construction world, your mileage may vary.

Originally Posted by Sberry

As I look back at retirement age I really am starting to regret not getting some real book learnin and real college vs hanging out with malcontent and ornery old farts on top of buildings. I am a mechanic and a pusher,,,, notice didnt say leader, there is a difference and some time in college gives a chance to learn something about people vs men and machines. I did so much wrong due to not having the real mentors and trying a lot before I was ready.

Re: Education - College vs Private vs Self Taught

Well this is another one of those questions...........

Some people have the right aptitude and mechanical ability to be self taught. Some people don't, and you can't teach that.

Some people can go to a welding school and actually learn something. They can train the right minds to have a good clue but unless you can combine it with real world training/experience. From wrenching, torch skills (real torch skills), 80% out of position welding, weight lifting, Isometrics, mechanical aptitude, math skills, climbing skills. etc. But you will be ready to sit or stand all day welding cogs together as they go by.........
Hell I could go on but pffft...

So far in my experience most "welding school hires" get a big shock when they realize the amount of work it takes to fab and weld. What! you didn't know that your clothes are a consumable, yeah you'll get burned. AND PUT THAT FUUCCKKING PHONE AWAY!

College? Kind of an Oxy Moron for this business. I guess it's OK if your planning on wearing L.L. Bean all day.

And last but not least, a lot of the younger generation are a complete waste on life. They have no manual labor ability/aptitude for a lot of this kind of work. A lot of them just want to "pose" or be posers. They just want to hang out all day with stinger in hand, waiting for 2 pieces of steel to touch and "there up". Dam I wish I learned the Spanish in skool, cause some of them boys get it......

Now I'm only speaking in my 45+ year break/fix/non-union iron working/heavy industrial construction world, your mileage may vary.

Re: Education - College vs Private vs Self Taught

I met someone while back and got around to welding, he is telling me he learn from Jim Lincoln,,,, ha, sort of but he knows all about it. I ask what rod,,, he is not sure but thinks they are brown, I ask, AC or DC buzzer and he is not sure but he is some kind of fabricator for sure. So, me and a Bud are driving by and we stop in, him and another bud are tring to weld something and my Bud says,,,, wtf, where you learn this while they are jizzing about the welder must not be right and all that. So one makes a smart about well,,, if you think you can do better. John says gimme and changes the dial from 70 to 140 for a 5/32 they trying to run. They shut up a bit after he burns a rod. One even brought me a job later and notice,,, oh, ok difference between their welding and ours.
I have met some decent 6013 self learners and sometimes really surprised. I met one the other day starts telling all he know and all the rods, about 1/2 right at best and I figure oh shat but I look at bumper he installed and a couple overheads and wouldnt have a problem paying him. I work with another guy knew just enough to ask when we got to something fussy but he made a career with 1/8 7014 and while he can run the others he grabs what he is used to. Working on equipment no one cares what it was welded with as long as it doesnt break or leak.
Going in to business is a whole different animal and some got the talent the day they start, some need to learn but the good ones have a gift. I been teaching my secretary/helper contracting and she will be better than I ever was or will be, just built for it in the same way many athletes or artists are. I have seen all types, some care some dont, some are content to be hand to mouth and some wanna get rich. I made mistakes of not getting help, want to do it all, thinking I understand when I dont etc, the list is endless.
nIf I was going to do it again would keep a keen eye out for someone looking to help someone and take advantage, they call that riding a horse to a show when the others are walking. I was smart azz no one wanted to teach. Makes it hard, end up with lots of "experience" .

Re: Education - College vs Private vs Self Taught

As I look back at retirement age I really am starting to regret not getting some real book learnin and real college vs hanging out with malcontent and ornery old farts on top of buildings. I am a mechanic and a pusher,,,, notice didnt say leader, there is a difference and some time in college gives a chance to learn something about people vs men and machines. I did so much wrong due to not having the real mentors and trying a lot before I was ready.

Re: Education - College vs Private vs Self Taught

Today or children are over stress for drive just for college 🎓 loan for jobs that did not need a degree 60 years ago. This only to make a big payday for the education system.
This why a lot children turn to drugs trying to cut there stress. Later in life they so stress they choose not have any babies

When will this end.

When at the doctor's office a RN ask about welding for her child.

So in November I choose not to fund the educational nuts 🤪

Dave

FYI I did goto college and did Iron work for college 🎓 most life was in welding and machine work for less stress.

Re: Education - College vs Private vs Self Taught

I agree on motivation

The real part of education from drafting college was engineering my father did help in both. High school was one year of electronics. Plumbing and electrical by helping was licensed contractors friends of family.
Welding , machine work and on job iron work I learned before high school .

If dropout I would almost have same education. If dropout my draf number would have been 304 and college it was 608.

Originally Posted by 52 Ford

That's slang for smoking weed, right?

I'm a high school drop out. I taught myself trig and whatever else I've needed. Every structure I've framed, I did all of the engineering on. In this day and age, with the amount of access to knowledge and knowledgeable people, there's really no reason you CAN'T learn something, as long as you have the motivation.

Re: Education - College vs Private vs Self Taught

Originally Posted by AmySchultz

During my studies I was also engaged in self-education.

That's slang for smoking weed, right?

I'm a high school drop out. I taught myself trig and whatever else I've needed. Every structure I've framed, I did all of the engineering on. In this day and age, with the amount of access to knowledge and knowledgeable people, there's really no reason you CAN'T learn something, as long as you have the motivation.

Re: Education - College vs Private vs Self Taught

Self history here. Trade school for tooling (Jig and Fixture is my 1st bread and butta, machinist 2nd bread and butta, tool and die, plaster pattern, injection modling, then welding) BS in Business Management. There has to be a balance of "book learning" and actual learning. What I learned in school is where to look things up, vs how to solve the problem. I will NEVER use my college in the manner it was designed because I will not only loose money, but be fired within weeks.

What I did learn I learned from watching others fail. I can do the tooling/machinist/production supervisor roll if I have too, but accounting I hire out. I am not even self employed. I have a side gig and pay an accountant (see specialized bean counter) to take care of those books. I make a profit because I can estimate costs + time + overhead (accountant is overhead). OP being self-employeed for years that helps. Dramaticly. But as others said watching others make mistakes or make the right decision adds wisdom for yourself. Welding is the easy part, marketing, sales, accounting etc. those are hard to balance.

Hope this helps

Re: Education - College vs Private vs Self Taught

I do agree A good school would help..

Re: Education - College vs Private vs Self Taught

I’ve read one book on welding [Welding For Dummies] by a cerified welding instructor named Farnesworth, and purchased another book entitled [Farm and Workshop Welding] by Andrew Pearce. Although I have learned a lot from that book, and many welding Videos on Youtube, like IC Welds, Tim Welds, Welding Web, and numerous others, I still decided to sign up for a welding course at the Technical College begining Aug. 10th, and believe that there are some things one can learn best from hands on instruction. Even at 68 years old, and welding already for 10 months on my own, I think the investment in a welding course will give me a foundation on the correct way to do things, and an understanding of metals and processes, that it would take me years to get on my own. I’m serious about wanting to do things that are structurally sound, and would pass any inspector’s scrutiny. Plus, certifications are available if I want to pursue them! Money well spent in my opinion!

Re: Education - College vs Private vs Self Taught

im sorry to hear that. sometimes the boss has favorites, and fires the good one, to give there favorite the position - not fair. did she report it to HR ?

Re: Education - College vs Private vs Self Taught

I hope here home is paid off and car is too or she will on feet again and back to GREEN living in Great out doors.
She made a decision and to late unless it is a credit card.

Dave

Originally Posted by SandraGroat

It's right, the coworker of my mother took a big loan for her child to study at a prestigious university and now she is fired from work, she just doesn't know what to do

Re: Education - College vs Private vs Self Taught

I 👍 agree

Dave

Originally Posted by 123weld

instead, i think they can just get one of those loans, that u dont have to pay back (free)

Re: Education - College vs Private vs Self Taught

That is good save money 💰 on something that most people depend on a good weld like Bridges and Buildings.
No money or scholarship just a back braking loan for lifetime.

I went college by being a iron worker.
No loads to drag me down for life no scholarship.

Dave

Originally Posted by SandraGroat

What loans?

Re: Education - College vs Private vs Self Taught

instead, i think they can just get one of those loans, that u dont have to pay back (free)

Re: Education - College vs Private vs Self Taught

I do agree.
Most do not read books and a classroom works the best for most.
Even most classroom do not teach any type drafting witch very helpful in laying out large jobs.
But schools are interested in just welding.

Dave

Originally Posted by Sberry

I spose its true, you learn other stuff at college like etiquette,,, different than learning on Ironwork job.

Re: Education - College vs Private vs Self Taught

I spose its true, you learn other stuff at college like etiquette,,, different than learning on Ironwork job.

Re: Education - College vs Private vs Self Taught

The main thing is to know what to learn if you're bad at studying better in college. But if you're confident in its powers it's best to take independent courses (any field), because you'll only get the information you really need and nothing extra. When I was doing welding courses I turned to the internet several times and I liked this service the most:***spam link removed***, where I found a guide for students on how to write a dialectical essay and I was developing independently. If I needed help I used to turn to them and I had all the information I needed, that's how I ended up with a book on welding where you can learn everything from A to Z.

Re: Education - College vs Private vs Self Taught

I can just see Bill Gates going to a college to learn how to use Windows .

O he is a college drop out too.

Dave

Originally Posted by Lucaskook

I am the man who learned everything independently.

Re: Education - College vs Private vs Self Taught

I am the man who learned everything independently.