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Re: Lincoln SP175T DOA????

Hey man, which transformer did you end up using and is she still holding up? I am exactly in the same boat as you were. Sucks Lincoln doesn’t offer any solution to this problem. I already got the 110 fan. Let me know thanks

Re: Lincoln SP175T DOA????

Originally Posted by rexcormack

For milliamps yes.
10s of millions of home appliances, industrial equipment and even welders were wired this way before the code changed to require a 4 wire cord.
Is it the best way to do it, no but in this one instance it would be fine.
Besides Pipeliner has already ordered an isolation xformer which is the best way to repair it.

That's how I added a 120v outlet to my Tig cart to run the Tig Button..

Re: Lincoln SP175T DOA????

Thanks to all who contributed..........it turns and burns once again.

Re: Lincoln SP175T DOA????

Originally Posted by Oldendum

Are you recommending using the case ground as a current carrying conductor (neutral)?

For milliamps yes.
10s of millions of home appliances, industrial equipment and even welders were wired this way before the code changed to require a 4 wire cord.
Is it the best way to do it, no but in this one instance it would be fine.
Besides Pipeliner has already ordered an isolation xformer which is the best way to repair it.

Re: Lincoln SP175T DOA????

Originally Posted by rexcormack

Just wire one side of the 115 fan motor to LS1 or H2 (doesn't matter) and the other side to case ground.

Are you recommending using the case ground as a current carrying conductor (neutral)?

Re: Lincoln SP175T DOA????

Originally Posted by Pipeliner

Is this for real or are y’all yanking my chain? I haven’t let any magic smoke out yet and I’d like to keep the genie in the bottle.

Yes I'm serious. Many household appliances use this approach like the timer in you electric dryer or the clock in the electric oven in your kitchen.
Here in North America 240vac is just 2 115vac lines that are 180 degrees out of phase from one another so either side of the 240 is 115 with respect to ground.

Re: Lincoln SP175T DOA????

Originally Posted by Dan

You might consider looking in to whether or not there is enough room to fit a fan for a Hobart Handler 190 inside the machine. It would give you the 230 volt input fan and 24 volt AC output too.

Those do look very similar in size. I wish I could compare them side by side.

Oh well, I've ordered the 220/120 transformer and 115v fan. Hopefully by this weekend I can put it back together.

Re: Lincoln SP175T DOA????

Originally Posted by Pipeliner

Is this for real or are y’all yanking my chain? I haven’t let any magic smoke out yet and I’d like to keep the genie in the bottle.

240v is made from (2) 120v lines..... with respect to neutral... or ground depending on how you look at it so instead of hooking the fan up to the 2 - 240v lines you only hook to 1 of them and get 120v... but you are now returning to ground instead of neutral....

Attachment 1722566

ps. Ignore the L1 , L2 stuff... this is just an internet pic for illustration purposes

Re: Lincoln SP175T DOA????

Originally Posted by rexcormack

Just wire one side of the 115 fan motor to LS1 or H2 (doesn't matter) and the other side to case ground.

Originally Posted by ronsii

I can't believe I didn't think of that

Is this for real or are y’all yanking my chain? I haven’t let any magic smoke out yet and I’d like to keep the genie in the bottle.

Re: Lincoln SP175T DOA????

Originally Posted by rexcormack

Just wire one side of the 115 fan motor to LS1 or H2 (doesn't matter) and the other side to case ground.

I can't believe I didn't think of that

Re: Lincoln SP175T DOA????

Snatched the guilty party from the little beast. Holy cow some disassembly required!Attachment 1722556

Attachment 1722557

Re: Lincoln SP175T DOA????

You might consider looking in to whether or not there is enough room to fit a fan for a Hobart Handler 190 inside the machine. It would give you the 230 volt input fan and 24 volt AC output too.

Re: Lincoln SP175T DOA????

Just wire one side of the 115 fan motor to LS1 or H2 (doesn't matter) and the other side to case ground.

Re: Lincoln SP175T DOA????

Ok, that was quick - order cancelled. Figured - back on with plan A.

Re: Lincoln SP175T DOA????

Before I go to the workaround, Lincoln says the original 9SM15787-2 FAN MOTOR superseded to 9SM15787-4.

Welding Mart show to have it in stock. I placed an order and am holding my breath....

Re: Lincoln SP175T DOA????

What if I get the 115vac fan for the sp135 you mentioned and mount a 230vac to 115vac transformer in the wire spool compartment. I could run 230vac from the power switch to the transformer then 115vac to the new fan and hook the 24vac out of the new fan back up to #211 & #214 like it should be?

If the sp135 fan fits the same mounting as the original 230v fan this would be a cleaner looking work around for $20 more. What VA size would I need?

Attachment 1722505

Re: Lincoln SP175T DOA????

simple ohm test on both the 230v primary or the 24v secondary will tell you which failed. Lincoln is discontinuing most of the parts for the SP line of welders.
As they run out of parts. The 115 volt fan I listed the part number for is from the sp135 and with 115 on its primary the secondary will have 24 volts.
Another option that just came to mind is mount a 230 to 24 transformer where the fan lives and mount a 230 muffin fan on the out side of the case blowing in.

Re: Lincoln SP175T DOA????

When it comes to AC and stepping down voltages... my first thought is always transformers... as I don't know how just basically putting a resistor in series with a reactive load would do??? but... they do make 'travel transformers' for knocking 240 to 120... I know... it's another 'kludge' but depending on how much power the fan uses it would probably work easy

Attachment 1722494
https://www.ebay.com/itm/TRAVEL-VOLT...Cclp%3A2334524

Re: Lincoln SP175T DOA????

Well good news - it’s alive! Just not as intended, but it still welds. I found an old doorbell transformer that puts out 18vac or 28vac. So I hooked it up the 18vac side to #211 & #214 to power up the board and it worked. So now for a permanent fix since it won’t be going in the dumpster.

If I get the 115v Lincoln fan with the 24vac transformer, what kind of “device” as ccawg referred to above would be required in series to drop the 230vac to half? Will a light bulb work or is there a minimum amount of amp draw needed on the second device to reduce the voltage?

Still can’t believe Lincoln would give up on this critical part.

Re: Lincoln SP175T DOA????

Originally Posted by leightrepairs

Not knowing how the fan and transformer are wired together and seeing that from what you have checked makes me think that there is a broken wire since both the fan and transformer appear to have failed at the same time.

I have considered doing everything like you've mentioned. There are no broken / loose wires to the fan. I have found an old thread or two on here saying this is a know problem and either the fan fails and takes out the xformer or vice versa.

Re: Lincoln SP175T DOA????

If I understand correctly you have 230 V measured between LS1 and H2 and the fan does not run and you do not have 24 VAC between 211 and 214? If this is true I would start by checking the wiring from LS1 and H2 to the fan/transformer. If the wiring is good all the way to the fan/transformer, I would disconnect 211 and 214 from the transformer and use an external power supply 24 VAC to to 211 and 214 and see if every thing then functions. If everything then works I would find a fan and separate transformer to replace the existing fan/transformer. If this temporary set up does allow everything to operate do not use the welder in this configuration as you will not have any cooling to the unit. Not knowing how the fan and transformer are wired together and seeing that from what you have checked makes me think that there is a broken wire since both the fan and transformer appear to have failed at the same time.

Re: Lincoln SP175T DOA????

Originally Posted by ronsii

How about rewinding the fan motor? what design are the windings on it??

I don’t know anything about that. It has a 24vdc transformer attached to it like this.

Attachment 1722469

Re: Lincoln SP175T DOA????

Originally Posted by ccawgc

The 115 volt fan motor is still available. If you can figure out a way to power it.
you could use it. may be another 115 volt device in series with it. that will drop half the 230 volts. 9SM15787-1 about $67.

Does the 115v fan have the 24v transformer needed?

Re: Lincoln SP175T DOA????

How about rewinding the fan motor? what design are the windings on it??

Re: Lincoln SP175T DOA????

That part number is listed as obsolete whit no cross. which leaves us with a problem.
we need to find a 230v fan motor that is the same size and also a small 208/230 transformer with a 24 volt secondary to make the welder work.
The 115 volt fan motor is still available. If you can figure out a way to power it.
you could use it. may be another 115 volt device in series with it. that will drop half the 230 volts. 9SM15787-1 about $67.