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Re: Welding lead capacity

I kid not about the 4/0, they had big cause they were long. I was involved in a job with engine drives. 200's and wide open topped out and no more and if they were not runninf right wouldnt do it but they started out with 5 or 6 stories and machines on the ground and we moved them to the roof and chopped a couple leads in pieces and gave them some more poop.

Re: Welding lead capacity

Originally Posted by RCWelds

I hurt my right shoulder a few weeks ago……orthopedic surgeon did X-rays, and said I had a bad case of impingement, and had a small piece of bone floating in that joint where it failed to close together after birth when a baby. He said about 5% of the population has that in their shoulder(s). He said it makes one more prone to impingement when you’re one of the 5%. Lucky me, huh? I said all that just to say that I’d hate to think I had to lug a 100’ section of 4/0 wire any distance! I felt my 50’ leads of 1/0 were plenty heavy.

I picked up my MIG-285 machine last week, and boy, my right shoulder told me about it! I thought I was all healed up, but apparently, when one is almost 69 years old, one doesn’t recover like they did when they were 30! Imagine that! I’m still smarting from that move, and it also makes it hard to get sound sleep when one is in pain…..yeah, I’m gonna have to be more careful. At least my wife was nice and didn’t lay a bunch of “I told you so’s on me!”

shoulders are tough to get over, especially when you’re our age you know over 50 crowd. They have worked on my right shoulder 4 times that last one was a blessing, the left one only once

Re: Welding lead capacity

Originally Posted by 52 Ford

So, you're saying you have a chip on your shoulder?

Edit: not sure if you saw the thread where I mentioned this...

BUCKETS!

Stick your welding wire and air hoses in buckets when not in use. Not only does it keep the lines protected and tidy, but they have a convenient handle.

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Thanks for the bucket tips. I'll have to try and locate your thread about the shoulder thing.

Re: Welding lead capacity

Originally Posted by RCWelds

and had a small piece of bone floating in that joint where it failed to close together after birth when a baby.

So, you're saying you have a chip on your shoulder?

Edit: not sure if you saw the thread where I mentioned this...

BUCKETS!

Stick your welding wire and air hoses in buckets when not in use. Not only does it keep the lines protected and tidy, but they have a convenient handle.

Sent from my Lincoln Buzzbox using Tapatalk

Re: Welding lead capacity

Originally Posted by RCWelds

I thought I was all healed up, but apparently, when one is almost 69 yrars old, one doesn’t recover like they did when they were 30! Imagine that! :

LOL. Yeah, imagine that!

sorry didn’t mean to laugh but you know what I mean…[emoji41]

Re: Welding lead capacity

I hurt my right shoulder a few weeks ago……orthopedic surgeon did X-rays, and said I had a bad case of impingement, and had a small piece of bone floating in that joint where it failed to close together after birth when a baby. He said about 5% of the population has that in their shoulder(s). He said it makes one more prone to impingement when you’re one of the 5%. Lucky me, huh? I said all that just to say that I’d hate to think I had to lug a 100’ section of 4/0 wire any distance! I felt my 50’ leads of 1/0 were plenty heavy.

I picked up my MIG-285 machine last week, and boy, my right shoulder told me about it! I thought I was all healed up, but apparently, when one is almost 69 years old, one doesn’t recover like they did when they were 30! Imagine that! I’m still smarting from that move, and it also makes it hard to get sound sleep when one is in pain…..yeah, I’m gonna have to be more careful. At least my wife was nice and didn’t lay a bunch of “I told you so’s on me!”

Re: Welding lead capacity

I have carried some 4/0. Its all a couple of those outfits had. 100 ft pieces.
I can see Pop needing some heavy wire. Really bake on a feeder and it would even lose a little juice. Huge difference as the duty goes up, can really tell thawing pipe. Leads start to heat as they run steady.

Re: Welding lead capacity

Have photos of your new boring machine

Dave

Originally Posted by Freebirdwelds

They are impressive, no doubt.
Those kind of numbers are with robotics. Humans are putting down 20+ pounds an hour. (<<<<Can't believe I just typed that).

At my age I'm not dropping 30K in that system. Way too pretty for the likes of me. Friggin tips are $100. Now I'd drop that coin in a boring machine and would it see payback quicker.

Little porn for yuh.
https://www.lincolnelectric.com/en/P...es?sku=K4650-6

Re: Welding lead capacity

Originally Posted by 52 Ford

Wonder if those tandem wire setups can take 7/64 wire. I know that with SAW they can shove like 4 or 5 wires in to the puddle off one nozzle. I'd love to know what type of pound-per-hour they're getting by doing that.

I Googled it. ESAB says 90Kg/hr... so like 200 pounds of weld per hour. I want one.

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They are impressive, no doubt.
Those kind of numbers are with robotics. Humans are putting down 20+ pounds an hour. (<<<<Can't believe I just typed that).

At my age I'm not dropping 30K in that system. Way too pretty for the likes of me. Friggin tips are $100. Now I'd drop that coin in a boring machine and would it see payback quicker.

Little porn for yuh.
https://www.lincolnelectric.com/en/P...es?sku=K4650-6

Re: Welding lead capacity

Originally Posted by Freebirdwelds

I am strictly by the hour. Yuh a hyper fill would be nice but I do just fine with the 25X running 1/16 and 7/64.
I'm burning mostly 1/2" - 4" AR400-500 plate where rod is king. In a shop setting I could do things different, but in the field. I do 35 weeks a year at one place with some repair/rebuilds taking a couple months.

Wonder if those tandem wire setups can take 7/64 wire. I know that with SAW they can shove like 4 or 5 wires in to the puddle off one nozzle. I'd love to know what type of pound-per-hour they're getting by doing that.

I Googled it. ESAB says 90Kg/hr... so like 200 pounds of weld per hour. I want one.

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Re: Welding lead capacity

Originally Posted by 52 Ford

Do you charge by the hour or job?

Get chu a dual wire MIG, run 1/16" wire, and I bet you could save some time.

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I am strictly by the hour. Yuh a hyper fill would be nice but I do just fine with the 25X running 1/16 and 7/64.
I'm burning mostly 1/2" - 4" AR400-500 plate where rod is king. In a shop setting I could do things different, but in the field. I do 35 weeks a year at one place with some repair/rebuilds taking a couple months.

Re: Welding lead capacity

Regarding weld lead sizes. Ive used 120 feet of 2/0 cable (60 ft on each leg) and burned it up 3 times...I mean literally burned it up 4 feet of it at a whack...this stuff was only a month old...3 times...each time was with new lead in 4 or 5 weeks its burning up 4 or 5 feet at a time. So I got some 4/0 cable and it works fine, ground clamp dont get warm to the touch the lugs on the welder are nice and cool and the connections are cool too... I been usin it about 2 years now... it dont roll up too bad either...its that flexoprene stuff mentioned earlier.

I will admit I push it pretty hard with that wire feeder, its usually at 360 amps. I do bunch of jet arcin too. Stick welding i dont do too much of anymore but when i do i push it hard there too 3/16 and 1/4 7018s...sometimes i weld the oddball light thing like 3/8 plate with 1/8 or 5/32 and once in a long while I will burn some 3/32.

As far the reels go, I know some fellas that have used em out here in the strippins and they usually have to take em apart and clean em out evry 2 weeks or so, they arent thrilled with them at all. Coal fines turn into a pudding like substance when it gets wet and makes a mess of evrything...i wouldn't spend the money on them for this work I do

Re: Welding lead capacity

Originally Posted by Freebirdwelds

Kudo's if your charging by the hour. I supply consumables and would gladly run 3/32 all day but they would send me packing for the amount of time it would take to lay it. Hey if they don't care the amount of hours it takes to melt 50lbs of rod more power to you.

Do you charge by the hour or job?

Get chu a dual wire MIG, run 1/16" wire, and I bet you could save some time.

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Re: Welding lead capacity

Originally Posted by nickel_city_fab

Yeah, but ther shop is buying the rod, not me. They *do* have some 5/32 sitting around... on open boxes from 15 yrs ago. Nope, not gonna run that. So, I do go through several cases of 1/8... and then some more.... mostly crane and semi truck work. Idiot operators don't grease the business end of the crane, I get to weld up the pin holes or make a whole new hanger. Can whip one out in a day or two now. For welding in a pin hole to re-bush it, or putting a safety chain back on a truck, 1/8 with #2 does just fine.

Kudo's if your charging by the hour. I supply consumables and would gladly run 3/32 all day but they would send me packing for the amount of time it would take to lay it. Hey if they don't care the amount of hours it takes to melt 50lbs of rod more power to you.

Re: Welding lead capacity

Would be 100 ft of 12 cord to the Esab and a 25 number 4 extension for the stinger if I had to monkey around. Might simply use another 120V cord where I could which doubles for tools. Used to be we simply threw lead at it, now dont always have to and the route around it can be self financing in some sense and more convenient in the end. Be different if the machine cost 4 grand but 680$ maybe? For the misc/maintenance/utility user and stealer of power so I dont gotta run engine this looks worth of some thought. I use some old school cause I got it and already own it. Unless I was absolutely in the biz where there was no good way around it wouldnt hedge on it now. I got some, wouldnt replace it today if I had to start over. I most likely will never buy a machine that isnt factory cord and plug 50 end, most capable of 30 service now with minor exceptions. Electric I never bought new above 50 in, only bigger machine I own is a 300 I paid 100 for and tip my best bud tv repair man another C to fix a board.
That is not saying there isnt a place for all that or that they are the greatest machines, maybe they are and even some places this type of equipment cost is rather insignificant, race team etc can afford the snapon etc but one of the real revolutions in technolgy is to drive the cost of generic tools so low, they went down along with the computing cost as evidenced by a 180 mig now sold at box store for the same dollars it was at a dealer 30 years ago and the now long life of the 1$ China forged wrench which is amazing. Now poor can afford good usable tools. So many so foolish not to buy a few things where they lack, be different if they had to chase a tool truck down with 100's taped to their foreheads but Walmart of HF god something for dam near anything a human can do to something or to themselves.

Re: Welding lead capacity

At the time I was a card carry guy so all I need to see is they were looking for some men then the name of the steward and the name of the super and I got a story as to how they want me there in a hurry. It was easy because it wasnt unusual, bridge had guys show up from out of town all the time. One I just missed was epcot at disney. Anyway, 600A machines turned up to 400 or so most of the time, 6 and 8 packs wired to electric service and leads all over. We open up a semi box and had leads and feeders, another for air hose and rigging and another shipping box with wire. Stuff piled on top of planks and monster ratchet binders, the planks we called bridge planks. Surprisingly not everyone on the gang was built like apes but there was some mutual respect for just being in some of those insane places, the diagonal steel is tuff and I really not strong enough to be on a real bolt or rigging/plumb gang. Its not so bad when I am bossing it as I can compensate.
I would be more responsible and foreward thinking if I had a chance to do that again today and info is even easier. Brush up on innershield and modern fluxcore wire for sure and a guy could go anywhere right now. Good rig welders prolly the same way.
I understand the specialty trade of heavy work but I trying to see how much of it I can do with a Maxstar,,,, ha
I assume Miller has a machine now similar to the Esab Rouge is it? I believe they rave about the modern start features and 6010 which might be appealing if a guy was to graduate for regular field work? Seems I could actually about sell my like new Max and buy new yellow without much real juice in it.
If I was doing light handrail all that kind of thing where fussy control was an issue as well as handling and using line power would consider a cord and a machine for remote control, use number 12 lead,,, ha makes the new machuine free when compared to lead.

Re: Welding lead capacity

I have been around a bit. Early in my career did some heavy work but if I count all the rods over a career used 10 1/8 for every 5/32 and maybe as many 3/32. 90% of my stick weld is single pass simple bracket and vertical or overhead and a lot of material has gotten lighter over the years.
I used some 5/32 the other day, cut it with bolt cutters in little pieces for a build. Often 1/8 11 (cause I got a free box) as stripper/root/gap close/heat sink and another pass as shape and fill. I can clean. touch, smooth and feather with a common wheel on a 4 1/2 and a lot so as not to really notice I feathered a weld a little and really like to remove spatter, any sharp burs or edges etc but the skill is doing it so as not to make it look like it was attacked with a grinder. Part of that is being able to weld without undercut which if a guy really does this long enuf till its a reflex makes the job simple.
Zinging a root with a grinder to clean leaves it a bit smooth for the fill as well as removing slag.
Been on big jobs we really didnt use grinders, simple pecker and brush in the bolt bag. Big ole feeder, big fat lead, high buildings mostly and some bridge. They had 4/0 copper, 100 ft was all a guy could carry. The safety police were just getting started back then. I remember showing up really hung over on a structural job at a little powerhouse, wasnt unusual, rest of the outfit cept for 1 or 2 were about the same speed but rickety connector bolts stories high, no stairways, bolt staging nada but for 6 stories of tied off ladders. Was a bit un nerving at first and the cold azz weather didnt help but I change a couple jobs and move up the chain a little and get used to it.
Nothing like going to a new city, finding out where I gonna crash, looking around at the buildings then going to the hall and seeing if there was a spot for me.
Lots of good local hands didnt have much incentive to leave some steady spot to hook on with some outfit with ben hur or bridge in the name so it was pretty easy to listen to a few yarns by the bench warmers for a couple mornings till I get a grip and sign in, even had someone from home local spot that etc but at 9 oclock on some insane place 48 stories up on a plank hanging underneath a bridge stringing up 4/0 and a feeder along with air hose and gouger.

Re: Welding lead capacity

Originally Posted by Freebirdwelds

Yuh, no chit. I run 5/32 - 7/64 on heavy equipment. Even then I use 2500lbs+ a year.

Yeah, but ther shop is buying the rod, not me. They *do* have some 5/32 sitting around... on open boxes from 15 yrs ago. Nope, not gonna run that. So, I do go through several cases of 1/8... and then some more.... mostly crane and semi truck work. Idiot operators don't grease the business end of the crane, I get to weld up the pin holes or make a whole new hanger. Can whip one out in a day or two now. For welding in a pin hole to re-bush it, or putting a safety chain back on a truck, 1/8 with #2 does just fine.

Re: Welding lead capacity

Originally Posted by Oldendum

Put the stinger down your pants in the back crack and pull it out your fly up front. If it gets uncomfortably hot, you need bigger leads.

My son got a length of 2/0 leads from his trade school class when they refurbished the shop. Holy cow, those things are so heavy I can barely lift them.

Try this at about 400 amps with an an air arc torch. Might work better than Viagra.

Re: Welding lead capacity

Originally Posted by Welder Dave

I think you need to get into 5/32" and even 3/16" if you're going to be working on heavy equipment. #2 seems pretty small to me for a portable rig.

Yuh, no chit. I run 5/32 - 7/64 on heavy equipment. Even then I use 2500lbs+ a year.

Re: Welding lead capacity

Put the stinger down your pants in the back crack and pull it out your fly up front. If it gets uncomfortably hot, you need bigger leads.

My son got a length of 2/0 leads from his trade school class when they refurbished the shop. Holy cow, those things are so heavy I can barely lift them.

Re: Welding lead capacity

I think you need to get into 5/32" and even 3/16" if you're going to be working on heavy equipment. #2 seems pretty small to me for a portable rig.

Re: Welding lead capacity

Originally Posted by Sberry

Hence,,, the lead charts and actual load. The actual is a guy with 1/8 who simply mention the speculative possibility of air arc so we assume he is gonna change machines and trucks to make this a serious endevor? So,,,, this is adive,,, which is opinion of course. If I was doing this, would get me come nice chunks of 1, nothing ever prevents them from being cut and adding connects but in the event I needed to start conttinious air air arc,,, and maybe even keep open to sale if I didnt need it now,,, but would face it with shorter if I could and heavier pieces where needed and a couple other ways to improve it for near free if I had to.

Yep, if I was gonna do any amount of air-arc then I would have to get different leads, probably 2/0. My machine itself will do 1/4" carbons with no problem. But like I said, I don't see the need to air-arc very often. Most of what I need can be done with a grinder or the oxy-acetylene.

99% of what I do is 1/8" lo-hy 7018 on heavy equipment, with some occasional hard facing. Did the 7018 all day today in fact, I would be just fine with either #2 or #1 leads for that. That's what the company machine had on it, so that's what I used and it does OK. My own machine can go up to around 350A just like the company machine, but I doubt I'll ever see it go that high. Since I'm on a budget, I decided that the #2 was adequate for anything under 120 feet total length in the circuit (2 leads of 60 ft ea), so that's what I got. In 30-foot sections, so my shortest distance to the machine is 30 feet, longest is 60 feet.

Re: Welding lead capacity

I know the machines are rated 104 ambient which is pretty toasty and I have burned hard on a couple on some warm days but my shop is cool by those standards even when its hot and cool the rest of the time. I wonder if the scrap yards are more full of 225 than we see here which is really rare, most of them that were ever made are sitting in garages with the leads intact. What ruins lead is outdoor, damage and hung on rods.
Seems to me they are about like cords, overheat a 16 too long and while the rest of the cord is warm the connector to the end fails. Same with weld connectors and stingers that get hot fast, even heavy quality connection commonly fails with the fine welding wire,,, ALL the time. A volt loss is common, not sure how much it all matters but its free to fix,,, a couple of them and its like jumping up a sixe without the weight.
All this is easy to measure, I test leads all the time. Walk them right over to the battery center, hook to heavy car battery and any for that matter, use the load tester and draw 200 on it.
We can lay them in the snow, wish I would have had a couple modern test tools back in the day but with number 1 put it on a thaw job and lay it in the snow, at 150-175 its losing enough heat to melt it in pretty short order. Put it on a guy with 1/8 lo hy and doesnt even get warm. All the parts are rated at output and while its only 20% its at 225. While the machine has 1000 hours on it max of 115 on the dial and used AC on this one about 5 minutes, never at 225, have never set one at that and rarely run 5/32 on them. I have used 7014 at 145 all afternoon flat out, no way any amateur or diy ever could.
As for changing it all, the factory leads on the little red are very well installed and I dont wanna fool with it so simply cut off and connect removing 90% of the original lead and installing bigger. I wish I would have testes some to see what is really the difference, I suspect it could be part of the reason the machine outputs more than the dial?????? I am not by nature an electrical, I am an estimator with the math and try to see how close that comes to actual,,,, and how close it comes to speculation,,, which is always my point when it comes to opinion,,, is it the way I feel about it, is it accurate or collective wisdom or even become collective misinformation.
I got a lot of respect for code and inspections and licences in general. I ran in to an old bud a while backsome kind of electrician and while he is expert in his field still calls it 110 and 220 at home and while he knows more about electric than I ever will,,,, it goes for some guys here too,,,, there are a couple places where its obvious they are not familiar with the code. LOTS,,,, of maint and industrial guys like that. They are smart, they know their plant, assume cause they know more than others they know it all and or miss parts B and C.
Hence,,, the lead charts and actual load. The actual is a guy with 1/8 who simply mention the speculative possibility of air arc so we assume he is gonna change machines and trucks to make this a serious endevor? So,,,, this is adive,,, which is opinion of course. If I was doing this, would get me come nice chunks of 1, nothing ever prevents them from being cut and adding connects but in the event I needed to start conttinious air air arc,,, and maybe even keep open to sale if I didnt need it now,,, but would face it with shorter if I could and heavier pieces where needed and a couple other ways to improve it for near free if I had to.

Re: Welding lead capacity

Originally Posted by Freebirdwelds

Thanks, Back in 96 when I bought it I put a Crane Cam and ported the intake / air charger. As a pickup I was getting 0 - 18 MPG ( It has a 5 speed). Truck weight at the time was 6800lbs. Running from SC - NY averaging 85mph it did 15 mpg w/air conditioning on half way both ways. 2150rpm's = 85mph.

Now believe it or not I get 12.8 mpg and now it scales 10720lbs. That's running highway 70 - 75mph.

You asked. lol

Originally Posted by Freebirdwelds

Thanks, Back in 96 when I bought it I put a Crane Cam and ported the intake / air charger. As a pickup I was getting 0 - 18 MPG ( It has a 5 speed). Truck weight at the time was 6800lbs. Running from SC - NY averaging 85mph it did 15 mpg w/air conditioning on half way both ways. 2150rpm's = 85mph.

Now believe it or not I get 12.8 mpg and now it scales 10720lbs. That's running highway 70 - 75mph.

You asked. lol

Not bad at all! I'm not a Dodge guy (Ford... obviously), but one of the best sounding engines I've ever heard was a suped up V10 Dodge in a dead pull. No clue what sort of exhaust they had on it, but it sounded awesome.

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