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Re: Welding 5/8" shaft

I vote for weld them however you like then straighten. Rather than use a press I'd use a torch and bring them to red heat to straighten.

I think the sensitivity of your tool is amazing. But I don't understand how to use it. You slide it down the ways and look to see if the plumb bob moves? If so, I might grind the top of your plate flat (with a surface grinder) and then lay out and scribe crossing lines where the plumb bob hits when it's dead plumb. Then scribe circles calibrated to .001" out of plumb. That way you could plop it down on the lathe and read how out of plumb it is in thousandths of an inch directly.

metalmagpie

Re: Welding 5/8" shaft

Originally Posted by Lis2323

Teal. Teal? Really? Who are you and what have you done with ronsii???


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HAha Still the same me

see here I am fixing machine....
Attachment 1717909

Re: Welding 5/8" shaft

Teal. Teal? Really? Who are you and what have you done with ronsii???


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Re: Welding 5/8" shaft

Originally Posted by 12V71

Where's the Blue?

Had a bit of teal in the one...

Re: Welding 5/8" shaft

Where's the Blue?

Re: Welding 5/8" shaft

Originally Posted by Lis2323

I LIKE the B&W[emoji106][emoji106]. Kinda like pics of welding in the 90's. [emoji23]


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I like a splash of color in them myself
Attachment 1717894
Attachment 1717895
Attachment 1717896

Re: Welding 5/8" shaft

Originally Posted by farmersammm

Attachment 1717751

Attachment 1717752

Sorry about the B&W pics, but I was attempting to be artsy fartsy when I did them

I LIKE the B&W[emoji106][emoji106]. Kinda like pics of welding in the 90's. [emoji23]


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Re: Welding 5/8" shaft

Originally Posted by farmersammm

K'kins says my eyes are off by about Two InchesAttachment 1717814

I was trying to be polite, also , I lied, my accuracy is only as good as my beer night. Two more inches would build my confidence tho

Re: Welding 5/8" shaft

Originally Posted by Insaneride

Lmao

That reminds me of something like:

The angle of the dangle is directly proportional to the heat of the meat;
Provided the mass of the *** is constant.


Sammm, I agree the plumb is optical however, your eyeball is Probly only good for about 5 thousands of an inch. I've heard from statistics that a machinist with eyes can get repeatability to 2 thousands of an inch. I can get to about 5 seconds of an arc using an auto reflecting telescope. That's about enuf to launch a man on the Moon.

K'kins says my eyes are off by about Two InchesAttachment 1717814

Re: Welding 5/8" shaft

Originally Posted by shovelon

The bigger the shaft, the smaller the weld passes in relation.

Lmao

That reminds me of something like:

The angle of the dangle is directly proportional to the heat of the meat;
Provided the mass of the *** is constant.


Sammm, I agree the plumb is optical however, your eyeball is Probly only good for about 5 thousands of an inch. I've heard from statistics that a machinist with eyes can get repeatability to 2 thousands of an inch. I can get to about 5 seconds of an arc using an auto reflecting telescope. That's about enuf to launch a man on the Moon.

Re: Welding 5/8" shaft

Originally Posted by shovelon

Well the nice thing is the bigger the shaft, the easier it is to weld it straight. Post weld straightening is another story. I sometimes weld the other side of a warp to straighten.

Absolutely............a back bead, or bead on the other side, is very often the easiest way to bring things back to what they ought to be.

I do a lot of heat straightening, but I'm always a little queazy about heating a weld directly. I'll heat on either side, but always try to stay out of the weld area. Dunno if it's right, but I hate to heat a weld. This makes after weld straightening a bit of a challenge.

Re: Welding 5/8" shaft

Originally Posted by farmersammm

I haven't welded a large shaft in a long while, so I can't really remember if the distortion was less/more.

What I'm wondering is if...........the larger shaft requires more passes, and thereby maintains a higher interpass temperature during the process due to the large number of passes. And maybe this slows cooling, and lets the metal relieve some stress.

I just wish I could remember the difference between large diameter shaft, and small diameter shaft, differences. It's been a while.

Well the nice thing is the bigger the shaft, the easier it is to weld it straight. Post weld straightening is another story. I sometimes weld the other side of a warp to straighten.

Re: Welding 5/8" shaft

Originally Posted by shovelon

The bigger the shaft, the smaller the weld passes in relation.

I haven't welded a large shaft in a long while, so I can't really remember if the distortion was less/more.

What I'm wondering is if...........the larger shaft requires more passes, and thereby maintains a higher interpass temperature during the process due to the large number of passes. And maybe this slows cooling, and lets the metal relieve some stress.

I just wish I could remember the difference between large diameter shaft, and small diameter shaft, differences. It's been a while.

Re: Welding 5/8" shaft

Originally Posted by Kelvin

Interesting. I would have expected a larger shaft to be more prone to distortion...because of all the weld metal...

The bigger the shaft, the smaller the weld passes in relation.

Re: Welding 5/8" shaft

I was too harsh in response to thegary. I'm still trying to get over that tendency.

Any tool we use to analyze the twist in machine ways is usually an optical device. A level is an optical device, dependent on, and pay close attention to this..........calibration.

A plumb bob, on a long string, is also an optical device..................but, here's the huge difference............it's not dependent on calibration. Think about this, it's very important.

The plumb bob is always true (forgetting the effect of the Earth's rotation). It points to the center of the Earth.

Now for a concept that relies on some abstract thinking..........THE BASE OF MY TOOL IS A PENDULUM. Yeah, I said pendulum.

Think about it. The plumb bob is a constant. It always points to the center of the Earth. Today, tomorrow, and a year from now. It's immovable.

The base of the tool is "free" to move side to side in relation to the plumb bob. This is the heart of the principle.

I suppose I ought to apologize to the OP for taking the thread astray, but he ain't been back since his first post.

Any position of the base, within reason, is an indexable point. Simply draw a line, or do a line in some other manner, in any position the base is in.........and you have a starting point. No calibration involved.

If the base "pivots" in any position different than the indexing point, it will show the difference in relation to the indexing point. It's showing error if you will.

If you move the base from the original position.....................let's say on the opposite end of the lathe bed..............the plumb bob should line up on the same line if the bed is "level", or planar..........in other words.....no twist. If the plumb bob doesn't line up on the original line, it's telling you that the bed is twisted.

Depending on the ceiling height in your shop, you can make the plumb bob line as long as you wish. The accuracy increases with every increase in the length of the string.

So, you can see why this is a VERY accurate instrument (I've now uplifted the tool to an "instrument"..........which it actually is).

The Egyptians built the pyramids before spirit level transits, and way way before laser optics. You simply can't discount what appears to be a primitive tool.

Another thing to consider...................Ways wear.

You can perfectly "level' a lathe, but if the ways are worn, you'll turn a taper. It's a lifetime job to make a lathe run perfect.

My imported piece of crap can turn 24" with a taper of .00075ish. It starts to stray when the front of the carriage hits the joint where the gap bed insert meets the main ways. Cheap lathes have ground ways, not scraped ways.........hence the problem. But just how much are you willing to spend to achieve perfection. It's a game of diminishing returns.

My opinion,, and it's just my opinion.........you can reduce error more with the choice of cutting tools than you can with machine adjustments. A sharper tool, that runs with less pressure, will give better results than going nuts over adjustments. Tool push off will cause more pain than a tool that actually cuts something approaching what you set the knob at. Carbide is notorious for failing to perform when it comes to light finish cuts.

Re: Welding 5/8" shaft

Sammm, I still use a plum bob, I even have a Mercury filled one but I mostly use them to verify lasers are plumb.

In my opinion, the best method to set up a lathe or any critical surface (launch pad for space shuttle) is an optical telescope. Brunson makes retro reflecting scopes for precision alignment with an optical flat. Starret makes them also. You could use a theodolite but I think a transit would also work. Your plumb is only as good as the square you compare it to. And then there's beer night.

Re: Welding 5/8" shaft

Originally Posted by shovelon

Anything bigger in diameter will hold straightness better

Interesting. I would have expected a larger shaft to be more prone to distortion...because of all the weld metal...

Re: Welding 5/8" shaft

Something like that I bevel, clamp into an angle like mentioned earlier and weld. Done many like that for customers in 30 minutes or less. Then I rough weld with a grinder 80% to surface and then finish off with a file. Takes another 30 minuets. When flush and jitterbugged I roll on a flat surface to check for straightness and if need be place on 2 wood blocks and whack with dead blow mallet until rolls flat for another max of 30 minutes. Anything bigger in diameter will hold straightness better and may take a press to straighten.

Re: Welding 5/8" shaft

Originally Posted by thegary

Here is the ultimate tool for leveling any machine tool. https://www.ebay.com/itm/Starrett-No...UAAOSwDsZetGwL

Assuming incorrectly that a machine tool has to be level, for anything other than oil flow.........................yeah it's a wonderful tool. Lotta money for something that gets ya in the ballpark. Ultimately, a test bar is the gold standard for a lathe.

As a matter of fact, my mill leans to the left, and I'm happy with it. Makes the coolant flow to the down end better.

If the lathe didn't have an oil bath, splash lubricated, headstock.......I wouldn't mind if it leaned either. Problem is, the thing has oil galleries that feed the spindle bearings which require a level setup in order for the lube to flow properly.

"Level" is a term of art actually. It really means planar. No twist on the ways. A lathe could be mounted on the wall at a 45* angle, and still turn a perfect cylinder....................as long as the ways aren't twisted.

So................let's see just how accurate a plumb bob is.

Tool sitting on ways with no shims. The tape is put on the tool where the plumb bob falls.

Attachment 1717785

Now, let's put a shim under one side of the tool.

Attachment 1717786

Now, let's see how thick the shim had to be in order for the tool to show a substantial error.

Attachment 1717787

I'd say that the tool is pretty damn accurate for somethin' made outta scrap..............and I still got that $300 in MY wallet

Machinists are prima donna's And...........they seem to have bottomless wallets for all sorts of "cool" goodies

Kinda like golfers

Attachment 1717789

Re: Welding 5/8" shaft

Originally Posted by thegary

Here is the ultimate tool for leveling any machine tool. https://www.ebay.com/itm/Starrett-No...UAAOSwDsZetGwL

That's a nice Athol.

I was going to mention the sleeve. I see BD1 said it first.

I had a 1973 Ford 4 wd that didn't have power steering. They only had a week power assist back then. I found a kit that used the better 2wd power steering box. It had a 2 piece sleeve that got welded over the tie rod. I went down the 405 freeway several times in that truck plus 4 wheeling.

The sleeve was a piece of pipe about 6 inch long slit down the length so that it was two C like pieces. They were then welded to the outside of tie rod that was shortened.

Re: Welding 5/8" shaft

Can a sleeve be used over the shafts ??


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Re: Welding 5/8" shaft

I have something similar to FarmerSamm's, it gets used all the time. I put an extra piece of angle on one of the legs for the ground clamp it was just extra work if I was doing multiple parts(moving the ground clamp all the time). I have two sizes for the jobs I do frequently.

Smaller fixture - 1"x1"x1/8" angle (aluminum)


Attachment 1717782


Attachment 1717783


Larger version - 2"x 2"x 3/16"? angle (aluminum)

Attachment 1717784

They are also usefull when welding round things that just want to roll all over, or even square of rectangular bars, or tubes. They are cheap and easy to make , so if you spatter them up from mig or stick, you can just make a new one.

Post up a pic when you get it finished.

Hope this was Useful.

Re: Welding 5/8" shaft

Originally Posted by farmersammm

Was making the ultimate tool for leveling a lathe. Sweet, simple, absolutely accurate.

Attachment 1717754

Attachment 1717755

The round stock is very close to what you're asking about. Probably 3/4 cold roll. Total passes to weld is 2 on each side. One pass each side...........repeat.

Here is the ultimate tool for leveling any machine tool. https://www.ebay.com/itm/Starrett-No...UAAOSwDsZetGwL

Re: Welding 5/8" shaft

I suspect it'll be tough to weld 5/8" shaft and have it come out absolutely straight. Might need to peen the concave side after welding...

Re: Welding 5/8" shaft

If it's really a steering shaft for a highway vehicle you'll want to make it out of one piece. Welding of critical vehicle control components is generally not recommended and, I think, will fail some state inspections if the inspector happens to see it.