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Re: Fab School

I've got a cheap 10 ton tubing bender that uses a long bottle jack and has one. It's so slow I never use it... much faster by hand in my case...

Re: Fab School

Originally Posted by MetalMan23

My railing was 5/8 square, I bent them cold.

I used the harbor freight bender with an air over hydraulic cylinder to make tepeabke bend. Don't send it out IMO, it's easy.

I'll look for a picture of the bending set up

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I am interested in seeing some pics of the air over hydraulic set up on the HF bender.

Re: Fab School

Originally Posted by tapwelder

Folk are crazy busy around here...

My kid lives just outside Nashville (moved there a little over 4 years ago). I have been blown away by the amount of construction & house renovation (as well as inflation of the housing market) that has taken place in the last 8-10 years. Crazy money; and it seems lots of money being spent for the modern, clean line like the cathedral pickets, etc. and no end in sight for the people willing to pay it.

Re: Fab School

If you make them you may be able to use the existing holes. A solid strap would work and ease installation, but could collect dirt and make cleaning difficult.

Re: Fab School

My railing was 5/8 square, I bent them cold.

I used the harbor freight bender with an air over hydraulic cylinder to make tepeabke bend. Don't send it out IMO, it's easy.

I'll look for a picture of the bending set up

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Re: Fab School

It will be interesting to hear about you experience, if you send it out. Folk are crazy busy around here. Probably be 5 month before i could get something like that back. Study it some more. As William pointed out a jig and a gauge will help knock them out. 1/2 is easily bent cold and with minimal mechanical advantage.

Re: Fab School

Originally Posted by wb4rt

Ok guys, new opportunity.

Customer wants a short (8’) level rail with cathedral pickets similar to Phil’s outstanding rail in other thread.

Attachment 1730869

She doesn’t want the knuckles, just straight pickets. I plan to have a local shop bend the pickets since they are set up to produce consistently.

The top rail will be 1 1/2” x 1” tube. The bottom of the pickets will be on a 1 1/2” x 1/2” flat running on the floor (to cover where the current wood pickets are).

So I appreciate any help/suggestions.

You just make a jig and each will be the exact same. That is the fun of making railings that are not just straight. You can make a jig in minutes. This jig in the movie, I made in less than ten minutes.



Sincerely,

William McCormick

Re: Fab School

Ok guys, new opportunity.

Customer wants a short (8’) level rail with cathedral pickets similar to Phil’s outstanding rail in other thread.

Attachment 1730869

She doesn’t want the knuckles, just straight pickets. I plan to have a local shop bend the pickets since they are set up to produce consistently.

The top rail will be 1 1/2” x 1” tube. The bottom of the pickets will be on a 1 1/2” x 1/2” flat running on the floor (to cover where the current wood pickets are).

So I appreciate any help/suggestions.

Re: Fab School

Originally Posted by MetalMan23

Don't need anything but friction to hold the pickets in the holes, if they're square, you'll have to get a hollow chisel mortising bit and use that to make a square hole

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If you make the rail perfect and drill the holes exactly both in diameter and in the placement you can do that. But if you try to wrestle the rail into place it is a mess. I had to put some screws on an angle through a few verticles and into the floor to hold a rail that was done poorly by someone else to hold it down because he tried to make it meet the holes in the floor that the verticles did not line up with. His holes were sloppy and the rail had a bow in it from welding.

If the verticals are going to be welded to the top rail or top channel already then I would do the Forstner bit or square drill bit, and I would put a couple of holes on an angle through the vertical and into the floor to screw some of them down. You can do the newel pole like that as well even if it isn't mortised into the tread, and is a decent diameter or decent-sized square.

They have stuff like this too, https://www.stairsupplies.com/produc...SABEgI49vD_BwE

If you can get to the underside you can just put a bolt up into the newel post. I have a round plate moulding welded to rail and underneath I have a 5/8" bolt threaded into the newel post. It is mad-strong. Comically strong a couple of people wanted to give it a push or pull because they knew it was going to wobble you could see their face when it just does not move. They doubted how hard they had pushed it and did it again. And then asked how it could be so strong.

Attachment 1730620

Sincerely,

William McCormick

Re: Fab School

Don't need anything but friction to hold the pickets in the holes, if they're square, you'll have to get a hollow chisel mortising bit and use that to make a square hole

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Re: Fab School

Too complicated, are your pickets round or square?

The one I did was square, I did about 45 linear feet of it.

Weld the railing like normal to the top rail, you'll need three pickets per tread,

If they're round, just drill a hole in the treads, chamfer the bottom of the 1/2" solid round so it'll go in the hole easier, the post at the bottom needs a baseplate, just put crews into the bottom tread to secure it

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Re: Fab School

Thanks to William and Tapwelder.

To clarify my project, the top is to be steel cap rail not wood. So I think I will have to weld verticals to 1” x 1/2” channel that goes under the 1 3/4” molded cap. Maybe that is unworkable (?).

The upper end will dead into a wall so a plate with lag bolts would hold that.

So I’m still trying to figure out securing the verticals in the holes and anchoring the lower end post to the stair tread.

I suppose I could use hanger bolts with tapped vertical, weld small flange at angle on top of verticals, then run screws through flanges into underside of channel. Lots of work! What do you think?

Re: Fab School

Originally Posted by tapwelder

Mounting into the top of wood i sometimes tie onto the riser. That is a short run, i presume tied into a wall at the top?

Good luck

Mounting the newell

Re: Fab School

Originally Posted by tapwelder

A forstner bit, and vacuum. no epoxy. Otherwise the step portion is small enough to be creative and not be a time sink. Could be a weldless install. Note: There is not much room to drill or screw the underside on the channel with balusters installed.

Mounting into the top of wood i sometimes tie onto the riser. That is a short run, i presume tied into a wall at the top?

Clear the area while working, especially if installing balusters on site. Round bars roll....

Good luck

You do not have to use the Forstner bit for strength at all, it is just a way to do it if you are stuck to one kind of install. You can even have a few of the flanges not seating all the way and it will be a solid rail. The rail cannot really bend because each step tries to pivot at a different pivot point which makes the rail solid as long as you are holding it down very well.

If I was making that rail tomorrow I would probably mount all my verticals to the step and then lay the rail on them level them and screw them in. And if I was going to do that I would change my plan a bit. I would drill through the flanges on an angle perpendicular to the earth's surface so as I tightened them I would not pull the verticles over on an angle. Just some food for thought.

Some guys drill the metal verticles on an angle and then use a finish drywall type screw to mount them to the floor. I have done that when I had no other solution. It really does not look bad because you can sink the head to a point it does not stick out by just countersinking the hole a little bit.

Sincerely,

William McCormick

Re: Fab School

A tread over ten inches will not allow you to have two verticals per tread you need three that can change the price a bit.

But this is what I would create with a deep dado.

Attachment 1730576

Attachment 1730577

Sincerely,

William McCormick

Re: Fab School

A forstner bit, and vacuum. no epoxy. Otherwise the step portion is small enough to be creative and not be a time sink. Could be a weldless install. Note: There is not much room to drill or screw the underside on the channel with balusters installed.

Mounting into the top of wood i sometimes tie onto the riser. That is a short run, i presume tied into a wall at the top?

Clear the area while working, especially if installing balusters on site. Round bars roll....

Good luck

Re: Fab School

Originally Posted by wb4rt

Hi Phil.

There are two parts to be made. One is only 6 open steps and the other is a balcony rail. I think if I make a template of the steps I will be able to get the pitch and picket lengths. The flat run should be pretty straightforward. She wants round pickets and molded cap.

My main questions before I take on this job is how to anchor the posts and the pickets in the wood tread?
Do you oversized the holes for the pickets or tight fit?
Do you use adhesive/epoxy for pickets?
Do posts use mounting plates?
What size post would be required (1 1/2 x 1 1/2)?

Any help based on your experience is very much appreciated?

I am sharing some ways I have done them, a lot of the reasons I did them in different ways was the tools I had to work with. And what was important or whether or not I had woodworking equipment.

If you are set up for it you can use a hanger bolt with a machine thread head into the stairs for a blind install. Then tap each vertical on one end to accept the machine thread. Unless you can get access underneath the treads then you can just drill a clearing hole and bolt them in. That is best. If you are going to tap the verticles and you do not have a lathe, you should make a jig to drill them.

Dado the bottom of the wooden rail to whatever the width and thickness of the flange you make for the top of the verticles, it can be a 1"x 3" x 1/8" flange. Offset the flange so that the side of the flange that is higher is overhung just enough to get the screw into the flange without hitting the vertical on the obtuse angle side. Then the difficult side that is blocked by the verticle because of the acute angle can be easily worked on. Just small #10 or #12 wood screws, 3/4" to 1" long to fasten the flanges to the handrail, pre-drill especially in hardwood. If you create a deep dado you do not even have to have each flange bottom out in the dado, if one or two on each steep do not reach the rail it will not matter.

Another way to do it, you can also take a Forstner bit the exact size of the verticle and drill each vertical into the step just 3/16" deep, to give you some adjustment in case, when you set the rail with the verticles already mounted to the rail, you find a step or two are on an odd angle. The Forstner bit will leave a center indent that you can drill a pilot hole for the hanger bolt.

You can also just grind down the verticle because the thread will be deeper than the steel hanger bolt so it will not bottom out if you feel you want to get them all to hit the inside of the dado in the handrail or if there is no Dado and you cannot create one.

If you can get under the steps just drill and bolt them in.

Sincerely,

William McCormick

Re: Fab School

Hi Phil.

There are two parts to be made. One is only 6 open steps and the other is a balcony rail. I think if I make a template of the steps I will be able to get the pitch and picket lengths. The flat run should be pretty straightforward. She wants round pickets and molded cap.

My main questions before I take on this job is how to anchor the posts and the pickets in the wood tread?
Do you oversized the holes for the pickets or tight fit?
Do you use adhesive/epoxy for pickets?
Do posts use mounting plates?
What size post would be required (1 1/2 x 1 1/2)?

Any help based on your experience is very much appreciated?

Re: Fab School

Originally Posted by wb4rt

Now I have a question on a potential new project.

Anybody done an inside rail like this? Any hints or tips on how to do it?

Attachment 1730534

The designer wants a steel cap instead of wood.

I've done that with square pickets

It's challenging lemme see if i can find a picture

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Re: Fab School

Now I have a question on a potential new project.

Anybody done an inside rail like this? Any hints or tips on how to do it?

Attachment 1730534

The designer wants a steel cap instead of wood.

Re: Fab School

Originally Posted by geezer

Hey Burt, how did your gate project wind up? Kinda like this last design.

Pretty good for me. Customer really likes it. Took a lot of planning and measuring to get it right.

Attachment 1730532

Attachment 1730533

Re: Fab School

Hey Burt, how did your gate project wind up? Kinda like this last design.

Re: Fab School

Well, customer had another idea. Here is more of what he wants.

Attachment 1726961

(I can never get the pictures to post right, no matter how I orient the camera.)

Re: Fab School

I sent Phil a PM, but maybe someone else can advise me about using cast iron spears on a gate project. How do I weld them? Just regular MIG or is a special wire required or ? Any advise is appreciated. I will be using 1/2” square pickets.

Also any design suggestions to match/coordinate with my rails in this other thread — starting post #59 — https://weldingweb.com/vbb/threads/7...-choices/page2

Here is my initial design:
(Sorry about the orientation)

Attachment 1726941

Re: Fab School

Originally Posted by geezer

Well Burt you are on a roll. I bet the customer liked the lambs tongue, makes a job look complete with nice lines. I assume you welded the landing cap to the stair cap?? Looks like a fer piece past 8ft.

Actually the cap is one piece - about 11’ total. Saved trying to blend the cap which takes time and I never do well enough to not show.