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Re: Bird Nest

I did upgrade the clamp a year or two ago. I will check the connection at the welder end. My habit is to touch connections after a session of welding see if they get warm. If they do, they need attention.

Re: Bird Nest

Originally Posted by G-ManBart

You actually have a welder manual that uses the term "ground lead"?

I interpreted,, it simply shows a pic of cables with bare wire, and loose connections,,

Re: Bird Nest

Originally Posted by SweetMK

I have not read EVERY post,, but, many of them,,
of the ones I have read,, everything has been discussed pertaining to wire delivery, rollers, gun,, etc,,

Have you considered the ground lead as the issue?
At lower voltage, and amperage, a poorly assembled ground lead can cause issues,, possibly the birdnesting,,

I would completely disassemble the ENTIRE ground lead, and check the wire and ALL connection points.

I was looking at the manual for one of my welders last night,, that ground lead disassembly and check is recommended every 500 hours,,,

You actually have a welder manual that uses the term "ground lead"?

Re: Bird Nest

I have not read EVERY post,, but, many of them,,
of the ones I have read,, everything has been discussed pertaining to wire delivery, rollers, gun,, etc,,

Have you considered the ground lead as the issue?
At lower voltage, and amperage, a poorly assembled ground lead can cause issues,, possibly the birdnesting,,

I would completely disassemble the ENTIRE ground lead, and check the wire and ALL connection points.

I was looking at the manual for one of my welders last night,, that ground lead disassembly and check is recommended every 500 hours,,,

Re: Bird Nest

I had another thread with my frustration with porosity & worm tracks in Dual Shield.

Yesterday I used a fair amount of Dual Shield. Roughly twice as much wire ended up in the trash as on the bucket I was welding. I'd say 12 birdnests in two hours. I believe it happens less when I had a full inch of stick out. I'm convinced the problem is gripping the contact tip. I'm going to get a drill a bit bigger than the hole in the tip.

Otherwise, welding with the dual shield was a success yesterday.

Re: Bird Nest

Stretch the gun out when installing the liner and make sure it's long enough with a curve in the gun. Have seen a few liners installed that were either too short or too long because somebody didn't take the time to check the length before cutting.

Re: Bird Nest

Don't cut the liner to long or to short. a long liner will cause feeding problems.
When you install the diffuser the liner will accordion pleat inside the gun and cause a lot of friction. short liner will leave a large gap between the liner and the tip.
Load liner into gun. use the diffuser to figure out where to cut. place on the end of the liner and see how much goes in side. mark diffuser then lay diffuser next to gun in correct position. pull liner out then push back in. pull back out 1/8 of an inch and cut at mark. Liner will stay in contact with diffuser with out accordion pleating. Cut liner with wire cutters, not cutting wheel.
Cutting wheel leave a sharp edge that will scrape the wire and cause feeding problem sooner and later.

Re: Bird Nest

Originally Posted by ccawgc

one more thing. If you have a miller M25 gun. Make sure the outlet guide; Small piece of liner sticking out the end of the gun is not missing or bent.
Other guns make sure they are pushed all the way in and almost touching the drive roll. Large gap between drive roll and gun end will bird nest if the wire stubs on the plate for any reason.

Outlet guide is there, not bent. I'm working from memory here, but it occurred to me the liner needs to bend for the gun, there is springiness to it, and the guide should be longer to push the liner to match the angle of the contact tip. Now I've got to dismantle it to inspect that. I wonder if a short piece of tubing could be slid into the end of the gun tube to better align the liner to the tip?

Re: Bird Nest

one more thing. If you have a miller M25 gun. Make sure the outlet guide; Small piece of liner sticking out the end of the gun is not missing or bent.
Other guns make sure they are pushed all the way in and almost touching the drive roll. Large gap between drive roll and gun end will bird nest if the wire stubs on the plate for any reason.

Re: Bird Nest

Surprised there isn't an inlet wire guide after the drive rolls like on larger Miller feeders. One of the features Bernard stresses for Centerfire contact tips is they can be rotated so they don't get oval shaped from being in the same position all the time.

Re: Bird Nest

I was thinking more along the lines of where the Dutch boy put his finger.

Re: Bird Nest

bead-boy

Originally Posted by bead-boy

""Diags or dikes (a portmanteau of "diagonal cutters") is jargon used
especially in the US electrical industry, to describe diagonal pliers.""

Etymology has low traction with this crowd - start in
the gutter - and maybe you'll be make friends . . .

hth


Opus

Re: Bird Nest

When I using Tweco I ground the brass so it would just a few thousand's of inch from the rollers.
The Miller at time was also made brass but Switch every welder to Tweco.
This stop the birds nesting with watching the rollers adjustments

Dave

Originally Posted by Willie B

Mine is perhaps closer than in your picture. The liner comes from Miller as I used it. I considered adjusting it, but couldn't move it hardly at all without touching.

Re: Bird Nest

Grind a bevel on the end to move it a little closer to the drive rolls.

Re: Bird Nest

Originally Posted by smithdoor

Here is a view of a wire feeder
You want to keep feed tube very close to feed rollers.
Do not tighten wire feed rollers to tight.
This will stop bird nest in the wire feeder.

Dave
Attachment 1719417

Mine is perhaps closer than in your picture. The liner comes from Miller as I used it. I considered adjusting it, but couldn't move it hardly at all without touching.

Re: Bird Nest

Originally Posted by CAVEMANN

You don't see a lot of guys that know what dikes are!

From : https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Diagon...%20it%20out%22.

""Diags or dikes (a portmanteau of "diagonal cutters") is jargon used especially in the US electrical industry, to describe diagonal pliers.""

Re: Bird Nest

Here is a view of a wire feeder
You want to keep feed tube very close to feed rollers.
Do not tighten wire feed rollers to tight.
This will stop bird nest in the wire feeder.

Dave
Attachment 1719417

Originally Posted by Willie B

Millermatic 252 is now 10 years old. It has always been useless with .023 wire. I have four guns; A short one dedicated to .023, the stock one (M25) for .030 & .035, the big Bernard gun can run .035, but it usually runs Dual Shield .045, and a spool gun.

Lately, it has taken to bird nesting with .035, and .045 also. I tried new tips & new liner, no improvement.

There is a retired, formerly Miller authorized service man in the city. I took it to him. After an hour of fine tuning, it fouls less often. His theory is an invisible layer of rust on the wire.

Anybody got suggections?

Re: Bird Nest

Originally Posted by CAVEMANN

You don't see a lot of guys that know what dikes are!

I have a lot of dikes around here.... some big some little... some with holes between the edges for stripping

Re: Bird Nest

Originally Posted by 12V71

I cut liners with a high leverage diagonal cutter... (dikes) If you work one jaw in carefully through the coil and then cut, usually no touch up required.

That discoloration in the last foot of the liner may just be heat from the gun and lube dust from dual shield wire. I get that on mine.

You don't see a lot of guys that know what dikes are!

Re: Bird Nest

The liner is not supposed to carry welding current -
https://www.bernardwelds.com/mig-gun-liners--p152451

Re: Bird Nest

Originally Posted by Willie B

I cut metal jacketed cable all the time. The inevitable sharp point is kept out of the inner space. Just something I always think about. Usually touch up with a file, or bench grinder.

I cut liners with a high leverage diagonal cutter... (dikes) If you work one jaw in carefully through the coil and then cut, usually no touch up required.

That discoloration in the last foot of the liner may just be heat from the gun and lube dust from dual shield wire. I get that on mine.

Re: Bird Nest

Originally Posted by CAVEMANN

Do you have to cut the new liners to length? If so could the cutting deform the liner enough to cause a problem, like a little burr or flattened a bit.I always clean mine with an appropriate drill bit.

I cut metal jacketed cable all the time. The inevitable sharp point is kept out of the inner space. Just something I always think about. Usually touch up with a file, or bench grinder.

Re: Bird Nest

Do you have to cut the new liners to length? If so could the cutting deform the liner enough to cause a problem, like a little burr or flattened a bit.I always clean mine with an appropriate drill bit.

Re: Bird Nest

Could current be arcing on the liner?

Re: Bird Nest

Originally Posted by Denis G

Dumb question, but were any of the old liners discolored? If so, they were probably carrying welding current.

Wait a minute! aren't they supposed to? Yes, the liner I just removed was discolored for a foot on the gun end. I'd have to study old purchase records, but it is between 1 & 2 years old. Still perplexing, the new liner was bird nesting also.

Thinking it over, the welder service guy was trying it on an old rusty piece of steel without gas. It bird nested repeatedly. At home, I tried a couple days later, It behaved fine. Only two factors I can think of: Ground, or gas. Here, I ground off rust to a clean surface, and I used gas.