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Re: Unofficial break test - comments wanted

It's breaking in the HAZ.

Re: Unofficial break test - comments wanted

Originally Posted by Mark_D

I can confirm this is mild steel.

Originally Posted by 12V71

Just how? I've been welding heavy equipment back together for 40+ years and have never seen mild break like that.

Get a new piece of it, get it red hot, quench it in water.

Hold in a vise and try to break it off with a hammer.

If it breaks in the water quench or with the hammer, it's probably not mild steel.


Bed frames look like thin angle iron, but they are often hardened steel so they can use thinner material.

Re: Unofficial break test - comments wanted

In order to do a proper break test, you have make sure the weld is the proper size to match the plate. You can't just do a random weld and break it. The example I showed of CEP's break test is how it is done. His 6013 test was just slightly under size (1/32") but still broke in the weld. It's still a crude way of testing weld strength but he broke all his tests with the same hammer where he could better judge how strong each weld was. In a press you don't have much way of knowing how much stronger or weaker each weld/rod is. All of CEP's break tests broke primarily in the weld.

Re: Unofficial break test - comments wanted

Aw Hell...........so many pics, I'm not sure which set I responded to

Re: Unofficial break test - comments wanted

A-36 will yield before the weld yields. If it yields outside of the weld zone, your weld was fine. In this case, it yielded above the upper weld toe, so it's simply a matter of the steel yielding. 36Ksi steel vs. 70Ksi weld.

Re: Unofficial break test - comments wanted

Originally Posted by ttoks

I more so mean variety of wires available, i couldn't find a reliable supply of .035 dual shield, and couldn't find -8 self shield at all in 10 lb spools, I'd imagine going down more to 1-2lb spools would make that problem worse.

For what your using this for it makes perfect sense, if I could buy HF machines here is have one for the price they're asking for the convenience of a tiny mig without gas.

lincoln got t-8 in 12.5 lb spools, and the .035 dual shield

Re: Unofficial break test - comments wanted

Originally Posted by ttoks

i couldn't find a reliable supply of .035 dual shield

Email Amy @ Blue Demon. 035 dual shield is roughly $60 per 33lb 12" spool (when I inquired about cost late last year), but you have to pay shipping, so you'd need to order a few spools to make it worth your while (so it can go out by freight as opposed to UPS/FedEx ground type of shipment). That reminds me; I really should finalize that order, she went above and beyond to source a few 040-diameter wire spools for me.

Re: Unofficial break test - comments wanted

Originally Posted by Mark_D

I originally thought this would be a bad thing. However, this is not a machine that I'm going to use for large scale fabrication. Using the small spools will force me to keep fresh wire in the machine and avoid the problems of humidity-soaked wire.


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I more so mean variety of wires available, i couldn't find a reliable supply of .035 dual shield, and couldn't find -8 self shield at all in 10 lb spools, I'd imagine going down more to 1-2lb spools would make that problem worse.

For what your using this for it makes perfect sense, if I could buy HF machines here is have one for the price they're asking for the convenience of a tiny mig without gas.

Re: Unofficial break test - comments wanted

Originally Posted by ttoks

it seems crazy to me to be looking at a machine that wont accept 10lb spools, I just went from one machine to another partially because I was limited in what wires I could get in a 10 LB spool, I needed to be able to use 33 lb spools.

I originally thought this would be a bad thing. However, this is not a machine that I'm going to use for large scale fabrication. Using the small spools will force me to keep fresh wire in the machine and avoid the problems of humidity-soaked wire.


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Re: Unofficial break test - comments wanted

Originally Posted by Mark_D

On another note, the Hobart 21b seems to be a bit more forceful and maybe not quite as smooth as the Lincoln NR211 on this machine. However both are very smooth with almost zero spatter. The Hobart seems to like to run at a little bit lower voltage. Going forward I will probably buy the Hobart since it comes in 2lb spools vs the Lincoln's 1lb spools (this machine does not accept 10lb spools). I'm thoroughly impressed with this 110v inverter flux machine and going forth it is going to get a lot of use. I have a feeling it may be the most used repair machine in the shop.

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it seems crazy to me to be looking at a machine that wont accept 10lb spools, I just went from one machine to another partially because I was limited in what wires I could get in a 10 LB spool, I needed to be able to use 33 lb spools.

Re: Unofficial break test - comments wanted

After a bit of thought, I've decided I'm going to continue this break test with some 7014 and 6011. Results to follow soon.

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Re: Unofficial break test - comments wanted

On another note, the Hobart 21b seems to be a bit more forceful and maybe not quite as smooth as the Lincoln NR211 on this machine. However both are very smooth with almost zero spatter. The Hobart seems to like to run at a little bit lower voltage. Going forward I will probably buy the Hobart since it comes in 2lb spools vs the Lincoln's 1lb spools (this machine does not accept 10lb spools). I'm thoroughly impressed with this 110v inverter flux machine and going forth it is going to get a lot of use. I have a feeling it may be the most used repair machine in the shop.

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Re: Unofficial break test - comments wanted

Ok I tested some .030 Hobart 21b tonight. I didn't get any pictures, but it broke as easily if not a bit sooner than the NR211 did. Solid wire MIG easily wins this competition over flux core and 7018. I was a bit surprised at the results.

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Re: Unofficial break test - comments wanted

The last weld has some strength but would fail a break test. The way a single sided fillet weld is fit creates a natural crack on the opposite side in the middle of the weld/plates. The break should be for the most part in the middle of the weld. It looks like there is slight undercut along the top edge that is likely where the crack originated. Another factor in doing a break test is the weld needs to be the same size as the 2 plates that are welded, IE/ 1/4" plate requires a 1/4" fillet or 3/16" plate requires a 3/16" fillet. Here is one of CEP's break tests which I asked if he could do. It is slightly undersize but shows how it should break. It also clearly demonstrates why we are not fans of 6013. When I have more time I'll try to find his other break tests. 7018 took 18 blows out of the package to break and 22 I think out of a rod oven. It also had to be beat back the other way to break off.

https://www.yesterdaystractors.com/c...oolt&th=293747

Re: Unofficial break test - comments wanted

Here is the test for the 7018. 3/32" rod straight out of the oven at 80 Amps. It broke as easily as the NR-211 did. Surprised me. MIG wins so far. In the next day or two I will do one testing Hobart 21b wire.Attachment 1729646Attachment 1729647

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Re: Unofficial break test - comments wanted

Here is a test for the .035 mig wire with 75/25 gas. I know the weld looks cold. It was at 21v and 350 ipm. It bent all the way over without breaking.Attachment 1729642Attachment 1729643Attachment 1729644Attachment 1729645

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Re: Unofficial break test - comments wanted

That looks more like it should. Work on the craters as that is where the break is starting.

Re: Unofficial break test - comments wanted

That's how it should break, in the middle of the weld, but that isn't the best weld with porosity and the huge crater. The problem with using a press is it can be hard tell how much stronger or weaker different filler metals are. 7018 and Mig will often fold over and have to hit or twisted back the other way.

I don't think the 1st break was a HAZ break. I think the piece was too hot and not mild steel.

Re: Unofficial break test - comments wanted

Originally Posted by Mark_D

Ok I did another test on the 3/16. Welded on one side and bent towards the weld in the press. It was folded almost flat before it finally let go. What do you experienced guys make of this bend?Attachment 1729617Attachment 1729618Attachment 1729619Attachment 1729620

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Originally Posted by Mark_D

Tomorrow I'm going to follow up with a hardwire MIG test as well as a 7018 test on the same material. I will post the results. I may also do a test with some .030 Hobart 21B Fabshield. I'm not overly impressed with the way the NR211 broke in the bend test.

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That looks more like what it should, similar to a MIG or 7018 break, that looks good to me.

I wouldn't be upset if I had that weld on one of my jobs.

Re: Unofficial break test - comments wanted

Tomorrow I'm going to follow up with a hardwire MIG test as well as a 7018 test on the same material. I will post the results. I may also do a test with some .030 Hobart 21B Fabshield. I'm not overly impressed with the way the NR211 broke in the bend test.

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Re: Unofficial break test - comments wanted

Ok I did another test on the 3/16. Welded on one side and bent towards the weld in the press. It was folded almost flat before it finally let go. What do you experienced guys make of this bend?Attachment 1729617Attachment 1729618Attachment 1729619Attachment 1729620

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Re: Unofficial break test - comments wanted

Just braze it,lol. That break look like a shear. With the Hf bender if you use their 90 degree bend attachment on 1/8 material, It will leave it brittle and a shot with a hammer while install brackets in under ground ventilation ductwork will cause a break like that.

Perhap, that is another reason to bend it the other way.

Cut it apart, let us see the root.

Re: Unofficial break test - comments wanted

Try heating the next plate to dull red and let cool slowly, after cool to the touch weld and let cool to the touch and bend toward the weld. Breakage is happening in the heat affected zone. Research heat affected zone weld failures.

Re: Unofficial break test - comments wanted

Originally Posted by shovelon

Nothing wrong with that weld. Get real steel and bend towards the weld. That way is should break through the weld and you can examine the penetration. If it bends all the way you have an excellent weld. That is how AWS certified weld inspectors do a bend/break test.

I'm satisfied with the weld. I'm just perplexed at why the base metal is so damn brittle.

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Re: Unofficial break test - comments wanted

It should also be noted I had a failure of some leaf spring shackle mounts on a trailer several years ago. Same story, the weld held but the shackle mount ripped out just like this. Could this be something the flux core wire is doing to the steel?

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