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Re: CNC Plasma table equipment advice needed. HELP choosing torch and compressor

Hi Tom @acourtjester! Where can I find your aforementioned tutorials on Inkscape? I know this post is over a month old, but I'm still acquiring my equipment for the table. Thank you for the help

Originally Posted by acourtjester

Just came across your post today (thank TJS) CNC Plasma setups are great, there is a varied group of people that own them. As stated I have built my own table and sold many. I have used different Plasma units, all have been bought and sold with tables. I am on my 3rd Hypertherm PM65, If I sell this table with the hypertherm, I will buy another. One handy thing is I buy the kit with both hand and machine torches, I leave the machine torch on the table. This allows my to have the hand torch for other uses. My current table is a 4X4 but have built 4X8s too. Since I buy my steel from a supplier the hand torch is used to cut up the 4X8 sheets for ease of handling and storage (I'm 77 not a fast as I was). The main reason for the Hypertherm is ease of finding consumables and the different types of consumables. The fine cut is great for 16 Ga and under for nice looking cuts, some fun stuff I have done. If your doing artsy things be sure to learn to use Inkscape (I can send you some tutorials) it is a great free program and can be used for simple precision work for DXF and SVG files. I posible don't limit your self or table to Plasma only I do CNC routing (sign attached) diamond scribing, sign vinyl cutting with my table. This will open up a expanded project list once you get going, there are countless things you can cut for your own and others when the word gets out you can do things.
Have fun and do get on PlasmaSpider
Tom

Re: CNC Plasma table equipment advice needed. HELP choosing torch and compressor

Ok when setting up to cut with a CNC table you need to establish where the surface of the metal is. This is so the G-code can position the torch at the correct height for the pierce and then the cut height. There are 2 methods to do this one is a floating head switch, which uses a switch and the torch is mounted on a moveable mount for slight movement up and down. A g-code command tell the torch to move down slowly when the torch tip touches the metal it moves up and trips the switch. The G-code then moves the torch up taking the distance for the switches backlash, and sets the pierce height. Method 2 is an ohmic sensor, there is a wire attached to the torch shield and this forms an electrical circuit with the metal and the instant it touches the metal I triggers the complete circuit. This is very fast and almost no downward pressure on the metal, great for thin metal and the G-code finishes the commands to the pierce and cut height as with the other method. But not flexing of the metal as can happen with a floating head switch and thin metal that warps with the heat of the plasma operation. This video shows how this works, but the Hypertherm has a retaining cap the helps attaching the wire to the shield, the second video shows the wire hook up on a Hypertherm torch

Re: CNC Plasma table equipment advice needed. HELP choosing torch and compressor

No sweat, its about 45 minutes taking the 303 to the 17.

Re: CNC Plasma table equipment advice needed. HELP choosing torch and compressor

Originally Posted by walker

I am up off Carefree Hwy and 7th St if you want to come try it out. I have an older TD unit here too for comparison.

That's a great offer, thanks so much. I will certainly take you up on that. I am out in Surprise, we will have to set up some time in the near future

Re: CNC Plasma table equipment advice needed. HELP choosing torch and compressor

Originally Posted by Welder Dave

Had a response all typed out and pop up came up that didn't like the spelling or phrasing or something and the whole reply was erased. Get an industrial compressor like an IR or Quincy with a true HP rating not some ridiculous rating that says a 5HP or even a 3HP will run on 120 volts. Have seem some double capacitor motors that claim 6.5HP off of 120 volts. No friggen way. Also need a good water separator. Look in the archives on here for CEP's plasma table set up and water separator. Water is the absolute worst thing to have in a plasma set up except for a water table. Yes to Hypertherm for the power source. There's a reason they are the best selling machines despite not being the cheapest. Might want to get a Mig welder and take a course on how to use it. If you do BBQ rings or similar you need to weld the ends together after having them rolled. If you cut out 10 or so at a time, I don't thing it would be too expensive to have them rolled.

I hate when that happens, lost all that work you had written up! :-/
Yes, I'm definitely going to have to take some welding classes. I will need to weld pieces eventually, and not just cut. I think I've decided on the Ingersoll Rand SS4L5 5 HP, and either the Hypertherm 45 XP or the 65 if I can afford it

Re: CNC Plasma table equipment advice needed. HELP choosing torch and compressor

Originally Posted by acourtjester

Additional info I hope you have a water table for your setup Plasma dust will get every where it should not and that can kill many electrical tools. the other thing is having a Ohmic sensor on you torch (another plus for Hypertherm very easy to add) this is something needed for thin sheet metal cutting that can be warped and cause problems with cutting.

I do have the water table, thankfully. I am not however, familiar with the Ohmic sensor? I will look into that.
I have an electrical setup question: I have decided on the Hypertherm, either the 45 XP, or the 65. I had an electrician come out to quote me on some new breakers. 50 A for the plasma and a 20 A for the air compressor was recommended. I also had him quote me for installation of a line-disconnect switch. Is that necessary/mandatory to have installed, or is it overkill?

Re: CNC Plasma table equipment advice needed. HELP choosing torch and compressor

Originally Posted by acourtjester

Just came across your post today (thank TJS) CNC Plasma setups are great, there is a varied group of people that own them. As stated I have built my own table and sold many. I have used different Plasma units, all have been bought and sold with tables. I am on my 3rd Hypertherm PM65, If I sell this table with the hypertherm, I will buy another. One handy thing is I buy the kit with both hand and machine torches, I leave the machine torch on the table. This allows my to have the hand torch for other uses. My current table is a 4X4 but have built 4X8s too. Since I buy my steel from a supplier the hand torch is used to cut up the 4X8 sheets for ease of handling and storage (I'm 77 not a fast as I was). The main reason for the Hypertherm is ease of finding consumables and the different types of consumables. The fine cut is great for 16 Ga and under for nice looking cuts, some fun stuff I have done. If your doing artsy things be sure to learn to use Inkscape (I can send you some tutorials) it is a great free program and can be used for simple precision work for DXF and SVG files. I posible don't limit your self or table to Plasma only I do CNC routing (sign attached) diamond scribing, sign vinyl cutting with my table. This will open up a expanded project list once you get going, there are countless things you can cut for your own and others when the word gets out you can do things.
Have fun and do get on PlasmaSpider
Tom

Thanks so much acourtjester! I appreciate all the advise and information. That is beautiful work you do, I love the 'Captain Caveman'! That definitely opens up new ideas with adding the router, I'll have to do that after I get comfortable with the torch and all the software first

Re: CNC Plasma table equipment advice needed. HELP choosing torch and compressor

Originally Posted by TJS

I have the Large IR Compressor as well. I have a raised barn shop on a foundation (that acts as a basement). The compressor is down below me so the noise is really not that bothersome. I will state however, dry air is a must. I have been running my table for a little over a year now. I have the blue/purple bead type dryers, copper pipes in a maze on the wall with drains and yada yada. I am at the point right now I am going to buy a refrigerated air dryer. As far as the size of the plasma cutter. Get the biggest one you can afford. There will be a time where you want to do a job but you can't because your machine does not have enough power. Just like a welder. There are constraints with those as well and it may be getting the job or not getting a job. I cut some backhoe bucket ears that were 3/4" thick and I was glad I had my hypertherm 85. One thing I also did was put a pressure gauge right at the inlet of the plasma cutter. A lot of errors kick and can be frustrating in the middle of a complex cut when the pressure drops and motion hold kicks and the machine stops.

This compressor looks like it would suit me pretty well: Ingersoll Rand SS4L5 5 HP

• 135 max. PSI with 60 gal. ASME tank
• 14.1 CFM @ 90 PSI, 16.1 CFM @ 40 PSI
• 100% continuous duty pump with cast iron construction
• 230V single phase motor

I haven't researched much into what type of dryer I'm going to use. I plan on starting with some type of desiccant dryer, then update as necessary. The AZ air is dry, so I'm not sure how extreme I will need to go.

Re: CNC Plasma table equipment advice needed. HELP choosing torch and compressor

I have a JD2 plasma table with hypertherm 65? Plasma and I have had a miller 875 spectrum for 10 years. I wouldn't purchase the miller again because the torch itself. It's a special adapter and it doesnt like to bend. The hypertherm, well its top of the line for a reason.

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Re: CNC Plasma table equipment advice needed. HELP choosing torch and compressor

Originally Posted by Bubba_HoTep

Lol walker! That's a great reply, thank you! I hear what you're saying.. I seem to know the answer, but am hesitant due to price. I just wanted to ensure that I wasn't paying that extra Hypertherm price just for 'bragging rights', or name branding, over pure quality

I am up off Carefree Hwy and 7th St if you want to come try it out. I have an older TD unit here too for comparison.

Re: CNC Plasma table equipment advice needed. HELP choosing torch and compressor

I agree with the above China crafts. Take a walk inside a Christmas Tree Shop (Tm) and this stuff is super cheap so people don't even care if your stuff in CNC plasma cut, super cool powder coating and made in the USA. They are just looking for the cheapest price. You can't even buy the material for what they sell the item for.
I have been cutting out items and parts for local welders for railings and such. Super simple drawings and fast production where you can actually make some serious money in a few hours.

Re: CNC Plasma table equipment advice needed. HELP choosing torch and compressor

Had a response all typed out and pop up came up that didn't like the spelling or phrasing or something and the whole reply was erased. Get an industrial compressor like an IR or Quincy with a true HP rating not some ridiculous rating that says a 5HP or even a 3HP will run on 120 volts. Have seem some double capacitor motors that claim 6.5HP off of 120 volts. No friggen way. Also need a good water separator. Look in the archives on here for CEP's plasma table set up and water separator. Water is the absolute worst thing to have in a plasma set up except for a water table. Yes to Hypertherm for the power source. There's a reason they are the best selling machines despite not being the cheapest. Might want to get a Mig welder and take a course on how to use it. If you do BBQ rings or similar you need to weld the ends together after having them rolled. If you cut out 10 or so at a time, I don't thing it would be too expensive to have them rolled.

Re: CNC Plasma table equipment advice needed. HELP choosing torch and compressor

Another thing you can look into is cutting parts for projects for other to assemble, like a kit. I did this for people who wanted to build their own CNC Plasma table all the custom cut parts with instructions, over 40 kits. Other thing like tool parts and they assemble/weld together. I also did Belt grinder parts, welding table clamps, these were cut from 3/8", 1/4" and 3/16" easy to fit in a small Priority mail box for shipping. Let your mind wonder there are many things you can offer besides a finished product. If you are wanting a powder coating oven look into building your own much cheaper that buying even a used one and easy to do. Metal 2X4 studs sheet metal, heating elements, control circuit and standard insulation.

Re: CNC Plasma table equipment advice needed. HELP choosing torch and compressor

Take him up on the tutorials. Especially when getting into Nodes stuff. It has helped me considerably.
T.J.

Re: CNC Plasma table equipment advice needed. HELP choosing torch and compressor

Originally Posted by Bubba_HoTep

What do you attribute the reason behind this low valued trend? Could it be a larger store/business entity that can produce cheap and easy designs, pushing the home business owner out of the market?

Don’t have a good answer; likely as more and more folks get into the biz, competition gets stiffer and many will try to compete on price. IMHO, the secret is finding a niche market and sell something that very few folks can/desire to produce. My mainstay is aircraft and MC weathervanes. My pieces require machine work, welding, sandblasting and powder coating. I’ve also tried making high quality 14 gauge 3D welded stars with a powdercoat finish and found most people would rather buy a cheap 20 gauge painted star made in China.

Re: CNC Plasma table equipment advice needed. HELP choosing torch and compressor

Additional info I hope you have a water table for your setup Plasma dust will get every where it should not and that can kill many electrical tools. the other thing is having a Ohmic sensor on you torch (another plus for Hypertherm very easy to add) this is something needed for thin sheet metal cutting that can be warped and cause problems with cutting.

Re: CNC Plasma table equipment advice needed. HELP choosing torch and compressor

Just came across your post today (thank TJS) CNC Plasma setups are great, there is a varied group of people that own them. As stated I have built my own table and sold many. I have used different Plasma units, all have been bought and sold with tables. I am on my 3rd Hypertherm PM65, If I sell this table with the hypertherm, I will buy another. One handy thing is I buy the kit with both hand and machine torches, I leave the machine torch on the table. This allows my to have the hand torch for other uses. My current table is a 4X4 but have built 4X8s too. Since I buy my steel from a supplier the hand torch is used to cut up the 4X8 sheets for ease of handling and storage (I'm 77 not a fast as I was). The main reason for the Hypertherm is ease of finding consumables and the different types of consumables. The fine cut is great for 16 Ga and under for nice looking cuts, some fun stuff I have done. If your doing artsy things be sure to learn to use Inkscape (I can send you some tutorials) it is a great free program and can be used for simple precision work for DXF and SVG files. I posible don't limit your self or table to Plasma only I do CNC routing (sign attached) diamond scribing, sign vinyl cutting with my table. This will open up a expanded project list once you get going, there are countless things you can cut for your own and others when the word gets out you can do things.
Have fun and do get on PlasmaSpider
Tom

Re: CNC Plasma table equipment advice needed. HELP choosing torch and compressor

I have the Large IR Compressor as well. I have a raised barn shop on a foundation (that acts as a basement). The compressor is down below me so the noise is really not that bothersome. I will state however, dry air is a must. I have been running my table for a little over a year now. I have the blue/purple bead type dryers, copper pipes in a maze on the wall with drains and yada yada. I am at the point right now I am going to buy a refrigerated air dryer. As far as the size of the plasma cutter. Get the biggest one you can afford. There will be a time where you want to do a job but you can't because your machine does not have enough power. Just like a welder. There are constraints with those as well and it may be getting the job or not getting a job. I cut some backhoe bucket ears that were 3/4" thick and I was glad I had my hypertherm 85. One thing I also did was put a pressure gauge right at the inlet of the plasma cutter. A lot of errors kick and can be frustrating in the middle of a complex cut when the pressure drops and motion hold kicks and the machine stops.

Re: CNC Plasma table equipment advice needed. HELP choosing torch and compressor

I was budgeting about $1500 for the compressor, as of now I'm working out of a 3 car attached garage, with 2 open bays for my shop area, about a 20' x 20' footprint.
I do have the space for separate plasma and compressor breakers.
An electrician is coming out today to quote me on installing two 50 A breakers and a line-disconnect switch for the plasma. I've requested two new 50A breakers, NEMA 6-50R receptacles 250V 8AWG wiring
I'll look up Brooklynbravest and acourtjester for more resources
Your info and advise is greatly appreciated @psacustomcreations, thanks again

Originally Posted by psacustomcreations

What is your budget? How much room do you have? Do you have space in your panel for a separate breaker for the plasma and then anothe space for the compressor?

Ingersoll Rand are a great company for compressors.
In regards to room or space, it is nice if you can have the compressor in another area so you do not have to listen to noise.
Since you are out there, you won't have to worry about freezing, but may have to worry about overheating.
Since you have a smaller plasma table, you will not be doing extended cuts. You might be able to get by with a 30 gallon tank.
At thay size, nearly any of the compressors ahould meet you needs.
I have a 60 gallon from Ingersoll that puts out about 18 cfm at 90 psi and was told by Arclight that it should be sufficient for my needs.
Make sure you invest in a good filtration system.

Look on here for a member named "Brooklynbravest".
He started with a 2x2 table and upgraded it on his own to a 2x4. He is turning put some nice products with that.
Then look for member named, "acourtjester". As mentioned, he makes his own tables and sells them. He is very knowledgeable about plasma tables and can be a good resource.

Sent from my SM-G930V using Tapatalk

Re: CNC Plasma table equipment advice needed. HELP choosing torch and compressor

What is your budget? How much room do you have? Do you have space in your panel for a separate breaker for the plasma and then anothe space for the compressor?

Ingersoll Rand are a great company for compressors.
In regards to room or space, it is nice if you can have the compressor in another area so you do not have to listen to noise.
Since you are out there, you won't have to worry about freezing, but may have to worry about overheating.
Since you have a smaller plasma table, you will not be doing extended cuts. You might be able to get by with a 30 gallon tank.
At thay size, nearly any of the compressors ahould meet you needs.
I have a 60 gallon from Ingersoll that puts out about 18 cfm at 90 psi and was told by Arclight that it should be sufficient for my needs.
Make sure you invest in a good filtration system.

Look on here for a member named "Brooklynbravest".
He started with a 2x2 table and upgraded it on his own to a 2x4. He is turning put some nice products with that.
Then look for member named, "acourtjester". As mentioned, he makes his own tables and sells them. He is very knowledgeable about plasma tables and can be a good resource.

Sent from my SM-G930V using Tapatalk

Re: CNC Plasma table equipment advice needed. HELP choosing torch and compressor

I thank everyone's advise and information on choosing the torch. I'm still debating on the size, either the powermax 45 XP or the powermax 65.
Now for the compressor. All I have, or ever have had is a small 5 gallon air compressor for auto work and pneumatic hand tools.
Is their a general 'go-to' brand for compressors? Is it safe to double the needed cfm that the torch is calling for? Example for a powermax 45 XP (6 cubic feet per minute (cfm) at 90 psi)
What about HP?, gallons?, Max CFM?

Re: CNC Plasma table equipment advice needed. HELP choosing torch and compressor

I did purchase the THC with the table. I will go and check out PlasmaSpider, I've read some out there but haven't registered as a user yet. Any and all help is appreciated to get me up and running. The Holiday ornaments are a great idea!! I do not know how Premier manufactures their tables or table plans. I believe the owner told me, and may have even said something about not using sheetcam, but I honestly do not know, and did not know enough back then to understand. When comparing other tables in the $3000-$4000 comfort range, this seemed to be the sturdiest. The CrossFire/Langmuir type setups seemed much less sturdy.

Originally Posted by TJS

So I built my table 4 x 8 using a PPLC railkit (old style) and I use CandCNC 640oz motors and control using Linux CommandCNC. Be sure to get a torch height control otherwise you will be not happy. I know @acourtjester has built several tables as well. He uses Mach. I don't use Mach, I use CommandCNC cause CandCNC states Mach will not be supported soon. Not sure I get that because a lot of people on plasmaspider use Mach. I also use Inkscape and SheetCam. Take a look at PlasmaSpider. Tons of help and support there. You can also sign up for the file sharing part of it. It is 20 bux a year and well worth it. I made some cool Holiday ornaments I downloaded from there and sold many. I glanced at Premier Plasma site real quick. What do they use to make their "plan" or post process. Most use sheetcam.

Re: CNC Plasma table equipment advice needed. HELP choosing torch and compressor

Originally Posted by psacustomcreations

This is definitely the case in my area as well. The number of new table owners and hobbyists has grown tremendously.
They all make the typical ragged flag or designs from Plasmaspider.
For the OP, where and how will you market your items? Will you sell online or at craft shows, gun shows, etc? Have you looked into how to ship your items?
Metal costs have increased greatly over the last 3 to 4 months. Shipping costs have also gone up a lot as well.


Sent from my SM-G930V using Tapatalk

Well that's not great news for a 'new kid on the block'. I see basic quality products out here in AZ, and have noticed that prices have been on the lower side lately even for those. My hope is my designs and finished product will justify a higher selling price.
I've seen tons of the ragged flags, and don't personally plan on fabricating those, as that designs seems 'over done' and flooded the market.
Where and how will I market my items? My initial thought was to start with the local and semi-local craft fairs and outdoor farmer markets; those go on around here almost 365. I also plan on marketing on Etsy, on Ebay, and eventually build a personal website to direct people to from any of my social media accounts. I have thought about the shipping logistics and pricing in my head, buy have not done any type of actual research yet on costs. I fully admit I have no clue on material costs at this point.

Re: CNC Plasma table equipment advice needed. HELP choosing torch and compressor

Originally Posted by BluCllrPlt

In my location it seems there is a race to the bottom for craft type items. Was contacted by an outlet mall type store about making some simple cutouts as their primary supplier is leaving the business. Got turned down because my price was too high, they found someone else “much cheaper”. Visited the store afterward expecting to see poor quality but the cutouts seem really nice.

What do you attribute the reason behind this low valued trend? Could it be a larger store/business entity that can produce cheap and easy designs, pushing the home business owner out of the market?

Re: CNC Plasma table equipment advice needed. HELP choosing torch and compressor

Originally Posted by TJS

I hope your 2 x 4 table will be large enough for some sign requirements. I have done quite a few Gym signs for the same Gym group and I used every bit of the table to produce these. Crafts are good but the market is flooded with all that and these people sell them very cheap. The Family Established scrolling signs are very popular.

I hope the 2 X 4 is large enough as well. The 2 X 2 would be too small and the 4 x 4 or 4 x 8 seemed to be too risky of investment until I test the waters out here and see how the market is.
As an example for my reference, what is the price range the Family Established scrolling signs are going for? Without any real-world knowledge, or proof out of my own shop, I would price an item like that from $40 - $60... I was thinking