Reply to Thread

Re: Why not use 7014?

The per heat temperature will very thickness and outside temperature.

Dave

Originally Posted by RideKTM350

One thing to also remember here is if you are using 100ksi or greater strength welding filler metal is even if the base metal may not need preheating the high strength welding consumable you may need a preheat. They get the strength of the welding filler metal by alloying it up which then will require preheat even if you were welding A36 base metal or another "low strength" base metal. Not that I am recommending to use 100ksi or greater welding filler metal on A36 but I have seen this issue where someone was using high strength consumables which then cracked, when I asked the question how much preheat did you use the answer was "none the base metal didn't require it".

RideKTM350

Re: Why not use 7014?

It been a few years I look in notes.
If remember it about 350

Dave

Originally Posted by RideKTM350

One thing to also remember here is if you are using 100ksi or greater strength welding filler metal is even if the base metal may not need preheating the high strength welding consumable you may need a preheat. They get the strength of the welding filler metal by alloying it up which then will require preheat even if you were welding A36 base metal or another "low strength" base metal. Not that I am recommending to use 100ksi or greater welding filler metal on A36 but I have seen this issue where someone was using high strength consumables which then cracked, when I asked the question how much preheat did you use the answer was "none the base metal didn't require it".

RideKTM350

Re: Why not use 7014?

Yes 11018 requires more stringent procedures than 7018. AR stands for abrasion resistant. T-1 (A514) is high strength, AR 400 or 500 is abrasion resistant. A good application for T-1 is building something like a heavy duty excavator bucket. Thinner plate could give more strength while also reducing the weight so lifting capacity isn't affected.

Re: Why not use 7014?

Originally Posted by Welder Dave

Not much of a problem with mild steel and a little more advanced to get into. There are applications like bridges where you want them to flex and move so full welds are not used. Some people have used rods like 11018 thinking it will be extra strong but it ends up cracking because it is not the right rod for the steel they are welding. Excessive reinforcement can cause a notch effect at the toes of the weld and wastes filler metal.

One thing to also remember here is if you are using 100ksi or greater strength welding filler metal is even if the base metal may not need preheating the high strength welding consumable you may need a preheat. They get the strength of the welding filler metal by alloying it up which then will require preheat even if you were welding A36 base metal or another "low strength" base metal. Not that I am recommending to use 100ksi or greater welding filler metal on A36 but I have seen this issue where someone was using high strength consumables which then cracked, when I asked the question how much preheat did you use the answer was "none the base metal didn't require it".

RideKTM350

Re: Why not use 7014?

It is T1/A514 is over 100ks
A36 is around 36ks

T1 is A514 sometimes AKA as AR plate.
I said 11018 is a good choice for welding T1

When I was buying steel T1 was call A514 in 6" plate.

Dave

Originally Posted by Welder Dave

You're kind of out in left field. T-1 is not an abrasive resistant steel, it is a high strength steel. The best analogy I've heard is 1/4" T-1 is basically as strong as 1" mild steel hence the need for higher strength filler metal.

Re: Why not use 7014?

You're kind of out in left field. T-1 is not an abrasive resistant steel, it is a high strength steel. The best analogy I've heard is 1/4" T-1 is basically as strong as 1" mild steel hence the need for higher strength filler metal.

Re: Why not use 7014?

Very good choice
It could be a 1060 steel
The 1060 steel in rails for trains welding rod spec out 11018-

T1 is a brand name sometimes call AR plate.
The work I did it is call A514.
If you are machining 1045.

I use for making wheels up to 20" diameter 6" thick Not cheap.

Dave

Originally Posted by Welder Dave

Not sure what the steel is but it isn't T-1 like 11018 is designed for.

Re: Why not use 7014?

Not sure what the steel is but it isn't T-1 like 11018 is designed for.

Re: Why not use 7014?

Are you welding A36 steel

Dave

Originally Posted by Welder Dave

Welding a box section of mild steel with 11018 such as a ripper frame on a dozer. Not stress relieving certain grades of steel could also cause it.

Re: Why not use 7014?

Originally Posted by Kelvin

Interesting, thanks for explaining it. I actually wondered about that.

Anybody know of any cases where the weld is ground flush/smooth but you still get a stress riser if the weld deposit is substantially stronger than the base metal?

This is one of those things that seems to make sense in theory, but I can't think of a practical/actual example of it.

Welding a box section of mild steel with 11018 such as a ripper frame on a dozer. Not stress relieving certain grades of steel could also cause it.

Re: Why not use 7014?

Originally Posted by yellowfin

That being said, if drag races could be won by minivans you'd see NHRA guys driving them instead of forking out ungodly amounts of money that they do.

You made some valid points but they just got disregarded with the worst possible analogy.

You may even owe the NHRA a formal apology. [emoji846]

Re: Why not use 7014?

It's absolutely necessary to spend time burning rods to get good at it. It's also indispensable to be able to most accurately see what you're looking at and understand what it is that you need to see. I haven't been at this for 20-30 years like many people here have but didn't just start yesterday either. The difference between what you can do when you see better IS significant True you gain nothing by not putting that into practice. You can't buy or BS your way out of it. That being said, if drag races could be won by minivans you'd see NHRA guys driving them instead of forking out ungodly amounts of money that they do.

Re: Why not use 7014?

Originally Posted by Kelvin

I can't think of an example where a 60ksi filler would be preferred over a 70ksi filler, but I suspect examples exist -- at least in theory, and the OP seems to be interested in theory over practice, so I figured I'd throw this out there for discussion by the more knowledgeable members...

Yeah, look at his thread on patching... handle. 6013 would be ideal. soft arc, lower amps/rod diameter.

Re: Why not use 7014?

Originally Posted by MinnesotaDave

I think maybe you are missing the real cause of the stress riser - the angle the toe enters the base metal.
As the excess reinforcement increases, the angle at the toe gets steeper.

Rail road engineers have studied these types of issues for fatigue.
They found that the largest number of cycles before failure occurred for pieces that were fully welded and ground smooth on both sides.
So the smoother the transition the better.

Interesting, thanks for explaining it. I actually wondered about that.

Anybody know of any cases where the weld is ground flush/smooth but you still get a stress riser if the weld deposit is substantially stronger than the base metal?

This is one of those things that seems to make sense in theory, but I can't think of a practical/actual example of it.

Re: Why not use 7014?

Originally Posted by Kelvin

One other issue I have not seen mentioned in this thread: People go on and on about welding filler strength, and seem to automatically assume that it should always be as strong as possible, but sometimes I suspect that too-strong of a filler is not only not an asset -- it can also be a liability.

In things that are expected to strain (in other words, bend temporarily or otherwise elastically deform) under stress, using a welding filler that is substantially stronger than the rest of the structure will create a "hard spot" or "stress riser" that will concentrate stress and could lead to premature fatigue cracking at or near the weld.

For example, in pipe welding, one defect they talk about is "excessive weld reinforcement." You can have excessive weld reinforcement on the inside of the pipe (which would restrict flow through the pipe), but you can also have excessive weld reinforcement on the outside of the pipe. This will create a stress riser on the pipe, and if that pipe is expected to move in service (due to thermal expansion and lengthening of the pipe -- it's gotta go somewhere, so it bends slightly), the weld being "too strong" (because it's too thick) will create a "hard spot" there, and could lead to cracking...which is one reason it's considered a defect.

I can't think of an example where a 60ksi filler would be preferred over a 70ksi filler, but I suspect examples exist -- at least in theory, and the OP seems to be interested in theory over practice, so I figured I'd throw this out there for discussion by the more knowledgeable members...

I think maybe you are missing the real cause of the stress riser - the angle the toe enters the base metal.
As the excess reinforcement increases, the angle at the toe gets steeper.

Rail road engineers have studied these types of issues for fatigue.
They found that the largest number of cycles before failure occurred for pieces that were fully welded and ground smooth on both sides.
So the smoother the transition the better.

Re: Why not use 7014?

Not much of a problem with mild steel and a little more advanced to get into. There are applications like bridges where you want them to flex and move so full welds are not used. Some people have used rods like 11018 thinking it will be extra strong but it ends up cracking because it is not the right rod for the steel they are welding. Excessive reinforcement can cause a notch effect at the toes of the weld and wastes filler metal.

Re: Why not use 7014?

One other issue I have not seen mentioned in this thread: People go on and on about welding filler strength, and seem to automatically assume that it should always be as strong as possible, but sometimes I suspect that too-strong of a filler is not only not an asset -- it can also be a liability.

In things that are expected to strain (in other words, bend temporarily or otherwise elastically deform) under stress, using a welding filler that is substantially stronger than the rest of the structure will create a "hard spot" or "stress riser" that will concentrate stress and could lead to premature fatigue cracking at or near the weld.

For example, in pipe welding, one defect they talk about is "excessive weld reinforcement." You can have excessive weld reinforcement on the inside of the pipe (which would restrict flow through the pipe), but you can also have excessive weld reinforcement on the outside of the pipe. This will create a stress riser on the pipe, and if that pipe is expected to move in service (due to thermal expansion and lengthening of the pipe -- it's gotta go somewhere, so it bends slightly), the weld being "too strong" (because it's too thick) will create a "hard spot" there, and could lead to cracking...which is one reason it's considered a defect.

I can't think of an example where a 60ksi filler would be preferred over a 70ksi filler, but I suspect examples exist -- at least in theory, and the OP seems to be interested in theory over practice, so I figured I'd throw this out there for discussion by the more knowledgeable members...

Re: Why not use 7014?

Originally Posted by Welder Dave

Visibility with a welding helmet takes time to get used to. Another reason to burn lots of rod. It appears to me that you're trying to find every possible excuse to not be burning rods. You haven't had time to get the machine out but had all kinds of time to type ad nauseum on the forum. If you truly want to learn how to weld it's time to s*it or get off the pot.

Welder Dave...
I believe you hit the nail on the head right through the board with a 10 pound hammer.

Flyfisher
Dont go too low on that hood setting, if you do ever manage to find a minute to burn more than 3 rods you might have some sore eyepeekers...I use a number 9 all day long. The fellas I work with tell me im nuts and need a number 11 or 12 for all the jetarcin and Innershield weldin I do, but it works for me. But do burn lots and lots rod its the only way you are gonna learn this thing...watch the puddle and what it does, see what works for you and get some muscle memory to the point where its second nature

Re: Why not use 7014?

Just think you need choose which to give mouth to mouth to the female model or the old guy.
I think the old guy is in same boat as the horse.

Dave

Originally Posted by Kelvin

...like that old "snakebite victim" joke -- "I've got good news, and I've got bad news..."

Re: Why not use 7014?

Visibility with a welding helmet takes time to get used to. Another reason to burn lots of rod. It appears to me that you're trying to find every possible excuse to not be burning rods. You haven't had time to get the machine out but had all kinds of time to type ad nauseum on the forum. If you truly want to learn how to weld it's time to s*it or get off the pot.

Re: Why not use 7014?

Originally Posted by tapwelder

Do you wear glasses? Do you need them to weld? Sometimes under the hood if glasses and helmet lens don't line up, I find myself looking above the glasses. It you have bifocal the again alignment could be an issue also. It also narrows your view if you look above your glasses.

Be aware of items the may reflect the arc light if welding inside. Outside reposition your body or drape something over the helmet to keep sun out.

Don't wear glasses, so thats not a problem. Thank you for the added info and thought.

I have been thinking about a rear cover for the hood of some kind to try. I haven't had a chance to get the machine out since I questioned the shade/visibility but I am curious if I knock the shade down to the lowest if that will change much. I recall spending time adjusting that last year because the visibility wasn't great and I settled where it is. Ive just left it alone since. I have never used the other 2 modes (grinding, cutting). I have not (yet) worn the hood with O/A - just shaded goggles.

Re: Why not use 7014?

Disregard

Re: Why not use 7014?

Do you wear glasses? Do you need them to weld? Sometimes under the hood if glasses and helmet lens don't line up, I find myself looking above the glasses. It you have bifocal the again alignment could be an issue also. It also narrows your view if you look above your glasses.

Be aware of items the may reflect the arc light if welding inside. Outside reposition your body or drape something over the helmet to keep sun out.

Re: Why not use 7014?

Originally Posted by Welder Dave

Burning more rod is the only way to learn welding. There is nothing that changes that fact. You can figure out all the theory and memorize the complete AWS and ASME code books but it doesn't amount to a hill of beans if you can't do a proper weld. Interesting that someone suggesting a pancake hood is also new to welding. Pancake hoods are primarily used by pipeliners because they fit that specific purpose. I'd guess 98% of the members on this forum don't use a pancake hood.

YUp...you aint gonna learn any craft or trade from a book, you got to get into whatever it is and get dirty, this fella is too damn worried about codes and regs and such and still has no clue how to read the puddle. He has another post about heating the lo-hy types of rod...Ive used all ogf them at one tiome or another out in the mines. Trust me that right there is the ultimate welding test, when the boss wants that overburden moved it gets moved one way or another and stuff will wear out and break. There is no code that Ive ever seen for this stuff but there is welding procedures involved and i havent seen any of them that say anything about heated rods, but they do talk about preheat innerpass temps and post heat on just about all of it.

What Owen told me was its all about joint design, preheat and keep the weld clean. That came from a fella that was doin this stuff when Jesus was playin in his daddys sawdust and wood chips.

I know what Ive done with rods that werent heated and I am quite content using those 7018 and other lo-hy rods that are in my box and not in an oven when I am not runnin Innershield

Re: Why not use 7014?

Burning more rod is the only way to learn welding. There is nothing that changes that fact. You can figure out all the theory and memorize the complete AWS and ASME code books but it doesn't amount to a hill of beans if you can't do a proper weld. Interesting that someone suggesting a pancake hood is also new to welding. Pancake hoods are primarily used by pipeliners because they fit that specific purpose. I'd guess 98% of the members on this forum don't use a pancake hood.