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Re: Repairing wallowed out holes with a holesaw

I'm going to bolt on some square tubing to widen the base of the drill press and weld some nuts on so I can have leveling feet. This way I can get the drill press aligned very close with the machine. When I get everything lined up I'm thinking of cutting a board (2x4 or 4x4) to size to fit between the DP and the machine frame and then using a ratchet strap to hold everything together so it's as rigid as possible and can't move. I don't think the DP would move but better to make it so it can't move. 1st I have to clean the bore and weld it up. Hoping to start this weekend.

Re: Repairing wallowed out holes with a holesaw

I've read 2 to 3 though for 3" shrink fit. Press fit is less and Loctite could also be used if it's a little oversize. If I go with a spring tension bushing they allow 3.00" plus .006" so I have some options if I can't get it perfect.

Re: Repairing wallowed out holes with a holesaw

It is not hard did all time to less than 0.001" .
But this earthmoving equipment it need clearest or the bearing will lockup from the dust at Less 0.005".

Dave

Originally Posted by Willie B

Both bores have to be cylindrical, and in line. If OE bushings are to be used, they'll have to be within .001" of correct diameter.
You'll find it ALMOST impossible to install new bushings in a perfect bore. I've calculated the shrink using liquid from canned air upside down, dry ice, & liquid nitrogen. I can't remember the results. I feel it was only .0015 diameter shrinkage in a 3" OD bushing could be accomplished with dry ice. Nitrogen is your best bet, but very complicated to buy. It's about half as warm as dry ice. Dry ice is more readily available & you can carry it around an hour in a cooler before using.

Re: Repairing wallowed out holes with a holesaw

Originally Posted by Welder Dave

The hard part is lining up the drill press and will take some time and ingenuity to do. To say it won't work is a little premature. As long as I can get a fairly round hole a little undersize I can clean it up with a flap disc if necessary. If I'm with .006" (oversize) I can also use a spring tension bushing. If the backhoe frame was taken off and clamped in a boring mill would certainly work. I don't need that much precision. If I'm within about 1/16" fore and aft or side to side I should be OK but want to be closer than than that. The pin in the bushing has .005-.006" clearance. I'm thinking about tacking some DOM tubing on to help line up the drill press and the boring bar. If it takes a day or more to do is fine.
I couldn't find HSS boring bars for a boring head. I priced an import boring head at a machine shop supply and it was on sale for $107.00 which wasn't too bad but the arbor was over $100.00. I ended up getting the boring head and arbor at KMS because it's only on sale till the end of the month. They didn't have individual boring bars so I just got the set. $140 for everything and if wobbles horribly or something just spinning in the drill press I'll return it. The machine is very solid so I need to make the drill press equally solid and lined up. It's nice that the bushing needing boring is mounted on a flat 1" steel plate I can put a digital level on and then put the drill press on the same plane. Having some threaded rod(s) to make slight adjustments would definitely make things easier and more rigid. I've had really low energy as of late that I think is do to a low white blood cell count. They are monitoring it and I go for blood tests on Friday. They might be altering the trial drug I'm on. Today I got a Holter monitor attached to check if I might have had a mini stroke a few weeks ago. They don't think so but want to check anyway. I have to return it tomorrow. It sucks that I'm so weak and need help for simple things. My back aches most of the time I'm up and just walking around for more than 10 minutes. It's really frustrating because I want to get things done.

Both bores have to be cylindrical, and in line. If OE bushings are to be used, they'll have to be within .001" of correct diameter.
You'll find it ALMOST impossible to install new bushings in a perfect bore. I've calculated the shrink using liquid from canned air upside down, dry ice, & liquid nitrogen. I can't remember the results. I feel it was only .0015 diameter shrinkage in a 3" OD bushing could be accomplished with dry ice. Nitrogen is your best bet, but very complicated to buy. It's about half as warm as dry ice. Dry ice is more readily available & you can carry it around an hour in a cooler before using.

Re: Repairing wallowed out holes with a holesaw

This help you mush as one time setup.
Line boring you make or buy cones that fit the boring bar.

In your case and the way first time I used round rod aka 3 sets of drill bit indexes. Just place around the boring bar to center

Dave

Originally Posted by Welder Dave

The hard part is lining up the drill press and will take some time and ingenuity to do. To say it won't work is a little premature. As long as I can get a fairly round hole a little undersize I can clean it up with a flap disc if necessary. If I'm with .006" (oversize) I can also use a spring tension bushing. If the backhoe frame was taken off and clamped in a boring mill would certainly work. I don't need that much precision. If I'm within about 1/16" fore and aft or side to side I should be OK but want to be closer than than that. The pin in the bushing has .005-.006" clearance. I'm thinking about tacking some DOM tubing on to help line up the drill press and the boring bar. If it takes a day or more to do is fine.
I couldn't find HSS boring bars for a boring head. I priced an import boring head at a machine shop supply and it was on sale for $107.00 which wasn't too bad but the arbor was over $100.00. I ended up getting the boring head and arbor at KMS because it's only on sale till the end of the month. They didn't have individual boring bars so I just got the set. $140 for everything and if wobbles horribly or something just spinning in the drill press I'll return it. The machine is very solid so I need to make the drill press equally solid and lined up. It's nice that the bushing needing boring is mounted on a flat 1" steel plate I can put a digital level on and then put the drill press on the same plane. Having some threaded rod(s) to make slight adjustments would definitely make things easier and more rigid. I've had really low energy as of late that I think is do to a low white blood cell count. They are monitoring it and I go for blood tests on Friday. They might be altering the trial drug I'm on. Today I got a Holter monitor attached to check if I might have had a mini stroke a few weeks ago. They don't think so but want to check anyway. I have to return it tomorrow. It sucks that I'm so weak and need help for simple things. My back aches most of the time I'm up and just walking around for more than 10 minutes. It's really frustrating because I want to get things done.

Re: Repairing wallowed out holes with a holesaw

The hard part is lining up the drill press and will take some time and ingenuity to do. To say it won't work is a little premature. As long as I can get a fairly round hole a little undersize I can clean it up with a flap disc if necessary. If I'm with .006" (oversize) I can also use a spring tension bushing. If the backhoe frame was taken off and clamped in a boring mill would certainly work. I don't need that much precision. If I'm within about 1/16" fore and aft or side to side I should be OK but want to be closer than than that. The pin in the bushing has .005-.006" clearance. I'm thinking about tacking some DOM tubing on to help line up the drill press and the boring bar. If it takes a day or more to do is fine.
I couldn't find HSS boring bars for a boring head. I priced an import boring head at a machine shop supply and it was on sale for $107.00 which wasn't too bad but the arbor was over $100.00. I ended up getting the boring head and arbor at KMS because it's only on sale till the end of the month. They didn't have individual boring bars so I just got the set. $140 for everything and if wobbles horribly or something just spinning in the drill press I'll return it. The machine is very solid so I need to make the drill press equally solid and lined up. It's nice that the bushing needing boring is mounted on a flat 1" steel plate I can put a digital level on and then put the drill press on the same plane. Having some threaded rod(s) to make slight adjustments would definitely make things easier and more rigid. I've had really low energy as of late that I think is do to a low white blood cell count. They are monitoring it and I go for blood tests on Friday. They might be altering the trial drug I'm on. Today I got a Holter monitor attached to check if I might have had a mini stroke a few weeks ago. They don't think so but want to check anyway. I have to return it tomorrow. It sucks that I'm so weak and need help for simple things. My back aches most of the time I'm up and just walking around for more than 10 minutes. It's really frustrating because I want to get things done.

Re: Repairing wallowed out holes with a holesaw

I agree slow is better for boring.

But have the equipment you what you have on hand. You can grind the cutting tool bit to reduce the charter.

I have used the Hydraulic type too.
I like slow when I am being paid by hour too.

It is not like you are boring a engine block. The photo is earthmoving equipment so get away with more and save time too.
The hard part is lining up the drill press it will take time to do.

Dave

Originally Posted by Willie B

It will NOT work. Gotta secure the boring bar in reference to the swing pivot. That requires two "bearings". If you can't afford bearings, use DOM tubing & weld them with several rods to position them. Grease them while boring.

The magic in line boring is what to turn it with. There are hundreds of rigs to rotate. It has to turn slow enough to minimize chatter. A hydraulic motor is perfect. Andy used a BIG drill press & then a Chinese VFD to slow it more. For a one time job, I would consider turning it by hand with a LONG ratchet wrench.

Re: Repairing wallowed out holes with a holesaw

Originally Posted by smithdoor

Sounds like it will work.

Dave

It will NOT work. Gotta secure the boring bar in reference to the swing pivot. That requires two "bearings". If you can't afford bearings, use DOM tubing & weld them with several rods to position them. Grease them while boring.

The magic in line boring is what to turn it with. There are hundreds of rigs to rotate. It has to turn slow enough to minimize chatter. A hydraulic motor is perfect. Andy used a BIG drill press & then a Chinese VFD to slow it more. For a one time job, I would consider turning it by hand with a LONG ratchet wrench.

Re: Repairing wallowed out holes with a holesaw

Sounds like it will work.

Dave

Originally Posted by Welder Dave

I put up a response yesterday but the internet was acting up and it disappeared. I've live in Edmonton but the machine is about an hour North out in the boonies. I will have to look things over really well to see how I might be able to strap or clamp the drill press to the machine. If I can get it squared up at the base, I think the drill press is heavy enough but having it semi attached would be even better.

Re: Repairing wallowed out holes with a holesaw

I put up a response yesterday but the internet was acting up and it disappeared. I've live in Edmonton but the machine is about an hour North out in the boonies. I will have to look things over really well to see how I might be able to strap or clamp the drill press to the machine. If I can get it squared up at the base, I think the drill press is heavy enough but having it semi attached would be even better.

Re: Repairing wallowed out holes with a holesaw

Originally Posted by Welder Dave

It's a huge advantage when you have some machine tools to make your own boring bar set up up. I don't. I didn't see someone using a hole saw for boring. I thought using the boring head and going slow was what I should try, now there's more video's of homemade boring bars? I went to my property today to work on the drill press. The runout on the quill and inside the MT was .003". There were a couple rough spots up in the MT but no burrs. I put the new arbor in and had less than .0005" additional runout so I think I'm OK. If the internal MT was bad I think I'd have more noticeable runout. I might look for something to polish it a bit. The arbor seems to hold in the MT pretty snug. When I put the chuck on the arbor I had .0080" total runout so the chuck must have .005" runout. I didn't have anything really precise to put in the chuck to check runout though. I wouldn't be using it with the boring head though. When I put an 1 1/4" drill bit in the chuck there was no noticeable wobble. Is trying the boring bar still the best option to try?

I think it would be.
You do want even hardness of the deposited weld metal, which might be somewhat influenced by the amount of admixture with the machine metal and the thickness of the deposits, the rate of cooling, etc. HSS is more resistant to damage from chatter, and cheaper too, and with a rigid setup might allow a somewhat more positive angle for the cutting edge, reducing the force needed. Going slow with a fine cut and slow feed in uniform material, with a positive rake, should tend to keep the cutter on the outside (trying to cut more) of the spindle play, if it's only a few thousandths, I think. A negative rake and just the general setup would tend to lessen the cut depth by that play amount.
If you can mount a plate on top of the drill press/mag drill, then you might be able to run a heavy ratchet strap from the machine to that plate and to the other side of the machine part, helping to hold the press tightly against the machine and improving the rigidity. I like the idea of welding 'scrap' metal on as supports or hold-down places.

Did yo ever post about where you are and thus give any members here a chance to physically join in the fun, either loaning any equipment or just helping?

Re: Repairing wallowed out holes with a holesaw

If we live closer this would be done and check would be cash.

I talk my wife son about line boring but was interested he want to put roofs for living .

Today where live it over $125.00 per hour and most shops use a machinist and a welder for work.

Before needing chemo again I was going to do the work in retirement.
I could whole job and drive with good check in my pocket.

Dave

Originally Posted by Welder Dave

It's a huge advantage when you have some machine tools to make your own boring bar set up up. I don't. I didn't see someone using a hole saw for boring. I thought using the boring head and going slow was what I should try, now there's more video's of homemade boring bars? I went to my property today to work on the drill press. The runout on the quill and inside the MT was .003". There were a couple rough spots up in the MT but no burrs. I put the new arbor in and had less than .0005" additional runout so I think I'm OK. If the internal MT was bad I think I'd have more noticeable runout. I might look for something to polish it a bit. The arbor seems to hold in the MT pretty snug. When I put the chuck on the arbor I had .0080" total runout so the chuck must have .005" runout. I didn't have anything really precise to put in the chuck to check runout though. I wouldn't be using it with the boring head though. When I put an 1 1/4" drill bit in the chuck there was no noticeable wobble. Is trying the boring bar still the best option to try?

Re: Repairing wallowed out holes with a holesaw

The wobble you see in a lot of milling heads it important the spindle turns true. A portable line boring machine and shop built will turn true as the boring bar.

I have run horizontal boring mills portable line boring machine and shop built .

A horizontal boring mills can take 1 to 8 hours for setup before you make the first cut.

A portable line boring machine or shop built takes about 1 hour or less before the first cut.

Dave

Originally Posted by Welder Dave

It's a huge advantage when you have some machine tools to make your own boring bar set up up. I don't. I didn't see someone using a hole saw for boring. I thought using the boring head and going slow was what I should try, now there's more video's of homemade boring bars? I went to my property today to work on the drill press. The runout on the quill and inside the MT was .003". There were a couple rough spots up in the MT but no burrs. I put the new arbor in and had less than .0005" additional runout so I think I'm OK. If the internal MT was bad I think I'd have more noticeable runout. I might look for something to polish it a bit. The arbor seems to hold in the MT pretty snug. When I put the chuck on the arbor I had .0080" total runout so the chuck must have .005" runout. I didn't have anything really precise to put in the chuck to check runout though. I wouldn't be using it with the boring head though. When I put an 1 1/4" drill bit in the chuck there was no noticeable wobble. Is trying the boring bar still the best option to try?

Re: Repairing wallowed out holes with a holesaw

Originally Posted by Welder Dave

It's a huge advantage when you have some machine tools to make your own boring bar set up up. I don't. I didn't see someone using a hole saw for boring. I thought using the boring head and going slow was what I should try, now there's more video's of homemade boring bars? I went to my property today to work on the drill press. The runout on the quill and inside the MT was .003". There were a couple rough spots up in the MT but no burrs. I put the new arbor in and had less than .0005" additional runout so I think I'm OK. If the internal MT was bad I think I'd have more noticeable runout. I might look for something to polish it a bit. The arbor seems to hold in the MT pretty snug. When I put the chuck on the arbor I had .0080" total runout so the chuck must have .005" runout. I didn't have anything really precise to put in the chuck to check runout though. I wouldn't be using it with the boring head though. When I put an 1 1/4" drill bit in the chuck there was no noticeable wobble. Is trying the boring bar still the best option to try?

One of my extra sons built his own boring rig when he had a similar problem with a Ford backhoe. He used flange bearings, a homemade bracket to position them, nothing exotic. He used the homemade broach he saw on You Tube to make a square hole through the boring bar. A lathe tool was used (cut off) to wedge into the square hole. He used a portion of a drill press he got cheap somewhere to turn it. I hear others use a mag drill to drive it.

His method was labor intensive. I'd hire someone if I could find them.

Re: Repairing wallowed out holes with a holesaw

It's a huge advantage when you have some machine tools to make your own boring bar set up up. I don't. I didn't see someone using a hole saw for boring. I thought using the boring head and going slow was what I should try, now there's more video's of homemade boring bars? I went to my property today to work on the drill press. The runout on the quill and inside the MT was .003". There were a couple rough spots up in the MT but no burrs. I put the new arbor in and had less than .0005" additional runout so I think I'm OK. If the internal MT was bad I think I'd have more noticeable runout. I might look for something to polish it a bit. The arbor seems to hold in the MT pretty snug. When I put the chuck on the arbor I had .0080" total runout so the chuck must have .005" runout. I didn't have anything really precise to put in the chuck to check runout though. I wouldn't be using it with the boring head though. When I put an 1 1/4" drill bit in the chuck there was no noticeable wobble. Is trying the boring bar still the best option to try?

Re: Repairing wallowed out holes with a holesaw

Clearfield on FYI
I never sent out line boring
I did my self for my self or others.

The video supplied by Meltedmetal is great way to do line boring

Dave

Originally Posted by Welder Dave

Line boring is just way too expensive for me right now. If the arbor held 1/10 as tight as the one I just removed I don't think I'd have a problem with it loosening. Going to check it out today and see what I can make work.

Re: Repairing wallowed out holes with a holesaw

Great video 📹
It reminds me first did line boring. I wish I had that up graded power feed.
I just push the drill motor.

Dave

Originally Posted by Meltedmetal

Lots of DIY line boring setups on YouTube. I liked this one as he used a set screw to micro adjust the tool with another to clamp it in place.Elegant in it's simplicity.

Re: Repairing wallowed out holes with a holesaw

I have PLENTY of 1.50 inch solid cold rolled shaft, some bearings, a hydraulic motor (20 cubic inch) , hydraulic hoses, and a hydraulic power pack.
And I have the same 7014 welding rods this guy used,,

I think I will build this, just in case I ever need it,,,,,,,,,,



About the only thing I do not have is the piece of threaded rod that feeds the tool,,,,,

Re: Repairing wallowed out holes with a holesaw

Lots of DIY line boring setups on YouTube. I liked this one as he used a set screw to micro adjust the tool with another to clamp it in place.Elegant in it's simplicity.

Re: Repairing wallowed out holes with a holesaw

For me it is cheapest way.
But I have done a lot too.

FYI I have only done mind own.

Dave

Originally Posted by Welder Dave

Line boring is just way too expensive for me right now. If the arbor held 1/10 as tight as the one I just removed I don't think I'd have a problem with it loosening. Going to check it out today and see what I can make work.

Re: Repairing wallowed out holes with a holesaw

It is earthmoving equipment after use for a shot time that hole will lap in with mud and sand.

For earthmoving equipment it needs to about 0.005" cleanest for mud lub.

Dave

Originally Posted by M J D

While I don't think a lot about the whole get around line boring thing it may work. I would use the carbide , shouldn't be much different than hss. You could possibly get some muffler clamps that fit the column and weld some threaded rod to the clamp. Weld some bosses to the boom area to run the threaded rod thru and use that to adjust and fixture the column. If your spindle has a thru bore you could hook up a " drawbar" to lock the boring head spindle in place. Without a drawbar the side load may cause the arbors taper to break loose. You should be able to bore accurately to size and get an acceptable finish without using an abrasive flap wheel.

Re: Repairing wallowed out holes with a holesaw

Line boring is just way too expensive for me right now. If the arbor held 1/10 as tight as the one I just removed I don't think I'd have a problem with it loosening. Going to check it out today and see what I can make work.

Re: Repairing wallowed out holes with a holesaw

While I don't think a lot about the whole get around line boring thing it may work. I would use the carbide , shouldn't be much different than hss. You could possibly get some muffler clamps that fit the column and weld some threaded rod to the clamp. Weld some bosses to the boom area to run the threaded rod thru and use that to adjust and fixture the column. If your spindle has a thru bore you could hook up a " drawbar" to lock the boring head spindle in place. Without a drawbar the side load may cause the arbors taper to break loose. You should be able to bore accurately to size and get an acceptable finish without using an abrasive flap wheel.

Re: Repairing wallowed out holes with a holesaw

We have a KMS store near me. Tons of stuff and not bad pricing.

Consistently staffed with old embittered (most likely knowledgeable) guys who don’t give a crap and can’t wait to go home.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

Re: Repairing wallowed out holes with a holesaw

There's a tool place here that has the head, tooling and MT3 shank. Everything is separate and would cost about $140. I'd certainly go this route if I could get it close a bit undersize. Then I could finish it with a flap wheel. The shank pic. is wrong but the description says MT3 which is what I need. Not worried if I need to feed it real slow. I wonder if a guide plate with the size of hole I want tacked on top would help for starting the cut? I'm going out to work on the drill press today so will see how much run out it has. I do think if I can use the drill press, it is very important to align it as close to perfect as possible. I'll look to see if maybe I can put some leveling bolts in the base so I can make small adjustments. Cutters look to be carbide and I don't need 9 of them. Maybe I could just get a HSS cutter or 2. Do you think HSS would be better for cutting weld build up?

ttps://www.kmstools.com/magnum-2-quot-adjustable-boring-head.html

https://www.kmstools.com/magnum-9pc-...g-bar-set.html

https://www.kmstools.com/magnum-2-qu...ead-shank.html