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Re: Sharpening Tungsten

Originally Posted by Willie B

I bet mine look that jagged magnified that far. Maybe yours.

Only if we were using like 60grit...

No,,, I weld mostly Aluminum, and mine look much closer to Oscars above ^ only without the sharp point (which they do have before I "blunt" them). As I said above, I've used a HF grinder and a 180grit diamond wheel for a dz years or so (that 9.99 grinder, which I've mounted in a box with a rocker sw, never has much of a Load put on it and never runs that long, so I'm sure it's got another dz years left in it!).

And again, yea, he's learning and it's on Alum, not going to make a difference...

Re: Sharpening Tungsten

Originally Posted by BaTu

I wanna say again, that all this focus on the electrode (tungsten) for a beginner, is a waste of time Neither the Angle, the Type, nor the diameter is going to have such an effect on someone who's "just back from their first welding class". You have So Many other things to get experience doing before you could possibly notice the difference!

That being said, this is the worst sharpening I've ever seen, ya might as well have used dykes (not that it matters at All at this point)

Attachment 1725309

Gee, the man is using it for aluminum, not stainless!

I bet mine look that jagged magnified that far. Maybe yours.

A DC electrode wants more nearly a needle point. I've never tried Oscar's needle, it must work, or he wouldn't do it.(of course, I don't think he poops often enough).

Re: Sharpening Tungsten

I wanna say again, that all this focus on the electrode (tungsten) for a beginner, is a waste of time Neither the Angle, the Type, nor the diameter is going to have such an effect on someone who's "just back from their first welding class". You have So Many other things to get experience doing before you could possibly notice the difference!

That being said, this is the worst sharpening I've ever seen, ya might as well have used dykes (not that it matters at All at this point)

Attachment 1725309

Re: Sharpening Tungsten

Yup, to each his own.

Aluminum oxide for fast grind, silicon carbide for smoother finish, then light buffing. It's faster than you think.

Re: Sharpening Tungsten

Originally Posted by shovelon

Exactly! The dedicated tungsten grinder thing has perplexed me for decades. We have been doing class A work with belt sander points that were used to grind all kinds of crappy things. All that matters is you get the pointy grind you want. Tried the chemsharp thing and threw it out. Worked and fumes stunk, and point was crap but it still welded fine.

Not sure what so perplexing about a tungsten grinder.
It’s a tool to be used like anything else
I find it pretty convenient

It’s hanging right at my welding bench
If I screw up all I need to do is reach up and grab it and do a quick re-point.
The angle is preset
Are you do is give it a quick spin and you’re done

Literally two seconds.

For me it’s just all about convenience.

I’ve used belt grinders also they work just fine


I just find it funny that whenever you mention a tungsten grinder
People come out of the woodwork and get all irritated.

To each his own.
There’s 32 ways to skin a cat.

Re: Sharpening Tungsten

Originally Posted by Oscar

They do get emitted from the surface, however your first statement/sentence is correct. I actually calculated the skin depth for ya a few years ago on the Miller forum. Doesn't exist at TIG welder frequencies, and is non-existent in DC.

Skin effect or none, grind affects the arc, especially at low current concentration. An arc perfect & tight with 1/16 tungsten will wander with 1/8" tungsten. Same is true of a nice clean point, vs a jagged grind. I believe as current increases the smoothness of grind is less important.

Re: Sharpening Tungsten

Originally Posted by Willie B

I defer to Shovelon, he does the pretty welds.

Electrons flow in the entire shank of the tungsten from collet out, but the scratches can make it erratic. I believe there is a concentration of electron flow on the surface. Those who grind perpendicular to the shaft of the tungsten dig a series of ditches. Yours run near parallel to the shank, that is best. Polishing might help in some small way, but I wouldn't be able to tell.

Shovelon is right, the very point of it will melt smooth anyway. Sine wave machines used pure tungsten for a smooth hemisphere as 50/50 balance sends a lot of heat back to the tungsten.

I'd say there are a lot of machines to grind tungsten, I've never tried one of those pencil sharpener diamond wheel tools, but I picture them putting a lot of spiral grooves in the tip. They only grind the tip, so stuff stuck to the last inch doesn't get removed.

Yesterday was the first day that I've welded outside a class. I'll be addressing the tungsten (2% Lanthanated), to ensure that I'm eliminating possible problems that aren't between the torch and the pedal.

Re: Sharpening Tungsten

Originally Posted by Willie B

Electrons flow in the entire shank of the tungsten from collet out, but the scratches can make it erratic. I believe there is a concentration of electron flow on the surface.

They do get emitted from the surface, however your first statement/sentence is correct. I actually calculated the skin depth for ya a few years ago on the Miller forum. Doesn't exist at TIG welder frequencies, and is non-existent in DC.

Re: Sharpening Tungsten

Originally Posted by HRTKD

Thanks for the positive feedback on the shape. I'm brand new to this so your feedback is very much appreciated. I couldn't see the detail until I looked at the photo. Lots of scratches. I need to hit it with a finer grit sandpaper next time. I'm welding aluminum using AC TIG.

Here's what it looked like before the sandpaper. Very rough. My diamond blade isn't as smooth as I thought.

Attachment 1725309

I defer to Shovelon, he does the pretty welds.

Electrons flow in the entire shank of the tungsten from collet out, but the scratches can make it erratic. I believe there is a concentration of electron flow on the surface. Those who grind perpendicular to the shaft of the tungsten dig a series of ditches. Yours run near parallel to the shank, that is best. Polishing might help in some small way, but I wouldn't be able to tell.

Shovelon is right, the very point of it will melt smooth anyway. Sine wave machines used pure tungsten for a smooth hemisphere as 50/50 balance sends a lot of heat back to the tungsten.

I'd say there are a lot of machines to grind tungsten, I've never tried one of those pencil sharpener diamond wheel tools, but I picture them putting a lot of spiral grooves in the tip. They only grind the tip, so stuff stuck to the last inch doesn't get removed.

Re: Sharpening Tungsten

Originally Posted by metalman21

I’m going to rip that trick from you.
BTW I sharpened on a crummy grey stone for about 36 years, they weld fine.

Exactly! The dedicated tungsten grinder thing has perplexed me for decades. We have been doing class A work with belt sander points that were used to grind all kinds of crappy things. All that matters is you get the pointy grind you want. Tried the chemsharp thing and threw it out. Worked and fumes stunk, and point was crap but it still welded fine.

Re: Sharpening Tungsten

Originally Posted by shovelon

I have 2% thoriated tungsten sharpened both ends for DC and 2% lanthanated tungsten pointed only one end for AC.

I’m going to rip that trick from you.
BTW I sharpened on a crummy grey stone for about 36 years, they weld fine.

Re: Sharpening Tungsten

Originally Posted by HRTKD

Picture of my tungsten after sharpening it. I briefly hit it with 150 grit sandpaper after grinding with the diamond tile saw blade. I set the angle of the radial arm saw to be 17.5°. The manual for my welder calls for a 35° included angle. If I understand their drawing, that means each side would be 17.5°. Please correct me if I'm wrong. This was for AC TIG.

Attachment 1725306

Works for me. Start welding! Too many people spend time micro polishing their tungsten on dedicated wheels and can't weld for nothin'. I would weld with that but I see the point is not seasoned for AC welding, meaning the rare earth alloys have not been burned out of the tip. Once seasoned for AC a nice shiny ball will form and the still alloyed shank will hold it. Which is why I have 2% thoriated tungsten sharpened both ends for DC and 2% lanthanated tungsten pointed only one end for AC.

Re: Sharpening Tungsten

Originally Posted by Willie B

I'd say your shape is near perfect. I'd be concerned about the all direction scratches. At low amperage, that tungsten is going to be erratic.

If it were to weld steel, it ought to be pointier.

Thanks for the positive feedback on the shape. I'm brand new to this so your feedback is very much appreciated. I couldn't see the detail until I looked at the photo. Lots of scratches. I need to hit it with a finer grit sandpaper next time. I'm welding aluminum using AC TIG.

Here's what it looked like before the sandpaper. Very rough. My diamond blade isn't as smooth as I thought.

Attachment 1725309

Re: Sharpening Tungsten

Originally Posted by HRTKD

Picture of my tungsten after sharpening it. I briefly hit it with 150 grit sandpaper after grinding with the diamond tile saw blade. I set the angle of the radial arm saw to be 17.5°. The manual for my welder calls for a 35° included angle. If I understand their drawing, that means each side would be 17.5°. Please correct me if I'm wrong. This was for AC TIG.

Attachment 1725306

I'd say your shape is near perfect. I'd be concerned about the all direction scratches. At low amperage, that tungsten is going to be erratic.

If it were to weld steel, it ought to be pointier.

Re: Sharpening Tungsten

Originally Posted by hrtkd

picture of my tungsten after sharpening it. I briefly hit it with 150 grit sandpaper after grinding with the diamond tile saw blade. I set the angle of the radial arm saw to be 17.5°. The manual for my welder calls for a 35° included angle. If i understand their drawing, that means each side would be 17.5°. Please correct me if i'm wrong. This was for ac tig.

Attachment 1725306

fail !

Re: Sharpening Tungsten

Originally Posted by monsoon-mech

Now I feel so... .. inadequate? Slacker? Cheap? whatever the correct word.. cause for about 20 years I've been using this belt/disc sander I didn't even buy new at Harbor freight it was $5 at a garage sale and sometimes the power switch doesn't make contact requiring mutiple flips (been planning to replace it since I bought it BTW) and usually gotta give it a push start by turning the belt to get it goin ... been using 80 grip disc but... think I like those diamond grit ones listed above gonna order one to glue on there.... maybe a new switch while I'm at it?

Attachment 1725271Attachment 1725272

ok I didn't take pics sideways...

Im glad your method works for you.

Have a great night.

Re: Sharpening Tungsten

Picture of my tungsten after sharpening it. I briefly hit it with 150 grit sandpaper after grinding with the diamond tile saw blade. I set the angle of the radial arm saw to be 17.5°. The manual for my welder calls for a 35° included angle. If I understand their drawing, that means each side would be 17.5°. Please correct me if I'm wrong. This was for AC TIG.

Attachment 1725306

Re: Sharpening Tungsten

Originally Posted by monsoon-mech

Now I feel so... .. inadequate? Slacker? Cheap? whatever the correct word.. cause for about 20 years I've been using this belt/disc sander I didn't even buy new at Harbor freight it was $5 at a garage sale and sometimes the power switch doesn't make contact requiring mutiple flips (been planning to replace it since I bought it BTW) and usually gotta give it a push start by turning the belt to get it goin ... been using 80 grip disc but... think I like those diamond grit ones listed above gonna order one to glue on there.... maybe a new switch while I'm at it?

Attachment 1725271Attachment 1725272

ok I didn't take pics sideways...

Well you are in good company. I use a belt sander as well. I use it to remove the blobs on the shank, sharpen the tip, change the angle at a glance. I also sharpen big drill bits, radius plates. grind bevels in parts, and flatten damaged edges. And no I don't use dedicated belts wheels, or bits for dressing tungstens. The tungstens really don't care.

Re: Sharpening Tungsten

Originally Posted by John T

I bought a Tech-south tungsten grinder... LOVE IT.

I get the same exact angle and point everytime.

It wasn't cheap, but to me it's no different than buying any other tool for the shop.


It works and it works well.

to each his/her own.

.

Attachment 1696212

Now I feel so... .. inadequate? Slacker? Cheap? whatever the correct word.. cause for about 20 years I've been using this belt/disc sander I didn't even buy new at Harbor freight it was $5 at a garage sale and sometimes the power switch doesn't make contact requiring mutiple flips (been planning to replace it since I bought it BTW) and usually gotta give it a push start by turning the belt to get it goin ... been using 80 grip disc but... think I like those diamond grit ones listed above gonna order one to glue on there.... maybe a new switch while I'm at it?

Attachment 1725271Attachment 1725272

ok I didn't take pics sideways...

Re: Sharpening Tungsten

My priorities are a free hand ability to grind shaft of the tungsten. When you dip in molten aluminum, you sometimes get an aluminum coated shank all the way up to the collet. I grind the shaft clean. I've heard experts say break 1-1/4" off the tungsten, start over. I've had OK results grinding.

Another concern to me is the grind scratches. They should run parallel to the shaft. Electron flow gets erratic when scratches spiral around the point.

I choose a wheel pulling from shank to point straight away. A bench grinder laid on its back works well for me. Mine cost $110.

Re: Sharpening Tungsten

JFK92,
Thanks for the review, thats kinda what I wanted to know. I've never bought anything from Eastwood before, and it looked reasonable. When doing work on a big site/factory it can be a pain to go all the way back to the shop to grind a tungsten, and shooting sparks all over can get unwanted attention. Sounds like what I'm looking for, hopefully I can catch it on sale soon. They also have some sheet metal mini-brakes that might come in handy for some thin gauge stainless worK I have coming up soon. Wondering if anybody has used one of those.
Between home and work shops I have about 8 grinders 1 Metabo(another one disappeared) 4 milwaukee, 2 cordless Dewalt 20v(1 home, 1 shop), 1 porter cable, and 1 B&D 9" Industrial grinder, 1 Makita 7" sander polisher(works on lower rpm, but works great with a zirconia flap wheel when smoothing welds in sheet metal). Each shop usually has 1 brush, 1 grinding wheel, 1 cutting disc. The Dewalts usually have cutting disc on to do quick bolt, and part cutting, and short prep for repair welds. Its just handy to have them set-up when you need them. I've never bought anything from Harbor Freight , but maybe now that they have a couple of new stores near me , I might stop in to see what they have.
I haven't used the Dunkin app yet, not sure it would work on my weatherized flip phone. But if it made my life easier, I would use it.

Re: Sharpening Tungsten

Originally Posted by albrightree

I have a bench top belt sander in one shop, a bench grinder in another shop. I use the belt sander the most with a 60 grit belt, its easier to make a good point on it with a hand drill to turn it. I'll use my 4-1/2" grinder if I have to sharpen when working in a remote location. Was curious about the eastwood grinder, I think it would be very handy. Especially on the 1/16" tungstens, getting a good shape might save me some tungsten. When field sharpening 1/16" on the 4-1/2" grinder , I tend to remove more material trying to get the point I want. After watching a few video reviews, I was impressed by how few sparks it made when grinding. Just wondering how long the wheels lasted, the motor part looks like a dremel tool.

Hey albrightree - so - this is an old thread - funny as I received a PM with some feedback and thoughts on the same Eastwood grinder. I ended up pulling the trigger on it despite all the genius's that sh*t on it in various online adds - yes - it's the same as a dremmel - but has a nice adapter on the top of it. I bought it for $79 during a promotion - and love it. it's easy, portable - and I get consistency just as everyone else does on their wheel, belt, angle grinder etc. for me - this is just "slightly quicker and slightly more consistent" - I had no issues using a bench grinder - this saves me what - 10 steps or so to the bench grinder in my shop, maybe 30 sec? no matter - I like it. for the same reason I bought probably 3 or so harbor freight cheapo angle grinders ($15-20 each?!) - I have them all setup with different disks - knotted wire, flap disk, cutting disk, grinding disk (I also have a WEN for anyone counting "that's 4") - it's so convenient to grab, plug in and do what is needed - rather than switch disks - I can but don't have to - anyway - I use the Eastwood grinder - more some days than others LOL - no disk wear that's significant. It's like the Dunkin Donuts app - it's convenient to order on the way - walk past the line - and get on with life!

Re: Sharpening Tungsten

Originally Posted by jfk92

Anyone have/use the Eastwood tungsten grinder they were promoting a ton end of last year? Think it was just over about $100?

I have a bench top belt sander in one shop, a bench grinder in another shop. I use the belt sander the most with a 60 grit belt, its easier to make a good point on it with a hand drill to turn it. I'll use my 4-1/2" grinder if I have to sharpen when working in a remote location. Was curious about the eastwood grinder, I think it would be very handy. Especially on the 1/16" tungstens, getting a good shape might save me some tungsten. When field sharpening 1/16" on the 4-1/2" grinder , I tend to remove more material trying to get the point I want. After watching a few video reviews, I was impressed by how few sparks it made when grinding. Just wondering how long the wheels lasted, the motor part looks like a dremel tool.

Re: Sharpening Tungsten

It's really not about any kind of exact angle though....

You're not going to be able to tell the difference anytime soon Having the ability to easily sharpen, with a dedicated clean wheel, as you're learning is all about contamination that might be effecting your welds. You want to have a good supply of Tungstens, buy the cheapest (appropriate) 10packs you can find and sharpen them all!

You want to have a stack of them so you can swap-them-out the first time you dip (and if you're doing this right, and maintaining a close arc, you're gonna be dipping a lot before you get good at this). Clean material, Clean Tungstens, and attention to details and procedures will allow you to know the difference in what it is you might be doing wrong as opposed to poor prep be the reason for a bad looking weld.

The other thing I want to say to anybody who's learning TIG is to Forget all the pictures you see everywhere of perfect looking welds. It's unfortunate that it's all you see posted-up on the net. The truth is all those posters are uploading their Very Best work! That will come later, it's like me trying to sew a sleeve on a shirt, it doesn't look like a tailor's work but it will hold just as well. It takes quite a while to learn to be able to make it look that way

Re: Sharpening Tungsten

Originally Posted by jeffrey.penfield

The guys recommending a torch or belt sanders or flap disks all have a lot of experience in TIG welding. They can compensate for a bad tungsten tip, but you probably can’t. They can also use these methods to get the tip right and then know if it is not right. I recommend buying a dedicated diamond wheel and learning to TIG with a properly ground tip. Once you have a lot of experience you can try other methods to see if it affects your weld. As you are learning, and welding is not going well, it would be nice to know that it was not from a poorly sharpened tip because you used a flap disk with contaminants.

As I'm brand new to welding, there is a lot to be said for having the tungsten just right. No disagreement there. With my radial arm saw setup, I should be able to get exact angles on the tip. The diamond blade I'm using has never seen another piece of metal, so contamination shouldn't be an issue.

I wouldn't mind buying a dedicated tungsten sharpening device, but my funds after the welder purchase, as well as the add-ons, are too low. So I'm making do with what I have on hand.