Reply to Thread

Re: Hub Puller Bad Gateway Update

Originally Posted by lars66

Or how about putting it in the lathe pickup the thread and clean up.

Absolutely!! That's what the videos show how to do. I've never done it before.

BUT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!............................ .................WAIT FOR IT............................................

THE PLAN HAS CHANGED

After examining the damaged thread, I discovered the damage extends to the full depth of where the nut has to go in order to set the preload. The remaining good thread is good BECAUSE THEY NEVER TURNED THE NUT DOWN THAT FAR.

So.........................(We at Uranus always have a backup). I'm going to remove all of the thread from the shaft, and rethread it in a smaller diameter.

Then....................I'll make a custom nut to fit the odd diameter thread. I ordered some 2 1/4 12L14 just a few minutes ago. Threads like a dream, and should be strong enough for the application..........there's no clamping force on a preload adjustment nut. And, because it's a fine thread, there's still enough meat for the key to grab the slot in the shaft. Might have to grind a skosh off the key to lower the height where it goes under the nut, but it's golden. The lock washer has enough length on the tabs to grab the slot too. So, it's a win win I'm thinking.

I might just turn, and rethread, only the actual portion that needs to hold the nut, and leave the remaining unused thread alone.

Re: Hub Puller Bad Gateway Update

Originally Posted by farmersammm

I've always wanted a set of thread files. I never saw the tool you linked to. Pretty neat. I'm wondering which is better.........files, or tool

Or how about putting it in the lathe pickup the thread and clean up.

Re: Hub Puller Bad Gateway Update

And one more..............................

Re: Hub Puller Bad Gateway Update

I Gotta Lathe!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Stupid Not To Use It

Attachment 1730170

I like this video better



The shaft is toast. I might as well attempt to repair the thread using the ultimate threading tool..................the lathe I've considered it, but had no idea how to align the cutting tool, and match the carriage travel. Between the two videos, I've got a fighting chance now.

I figure I'll cut a thread on a test piece, damage it, and repair it in order to get some idea how well this is gonna work.

Re: Hub Puller Bad Gateway Update

I often use these: https://www.mcmaster.com/thread-repair-files/

working about 5 to 10 degrees around at a time. It works on the stuff the threading tool doesn't do well. You can also use the on the lathe, carefully...

Good luck with the carpet, I've found that cleaning solutions with hydrogen peroxide are the best at getting rid of pet accident odors.

Re: Hub Puller Bad Gateway Update

As was suggested earlier I would add some spacer shims under the nut to use better threads. The suggestion about corn head grease is another good one it would help keep condensation and rust off things during the off season because the grease would stick better for the same reasons you have stated about using grease instead of oil in some of your wheel bearings

Re: Hub Puller Bad Gateway Update

I'll look for some videos about the tool. That way I can see it work, and judge how much room it takes to grab good thread.

Re: Hub Puller Bad Gateway Update

Originally Posted by farmersammm

I've always wanted a set of thread files. I never saw the tool you linked to. Pretty neat. I'm wondering which is better.........files, or tool

If you have the room the tool in the link I find to be much better. The nice thing about the tool or files is you can start your repair on the good threads and go over the bad vs a die or rethreading die where you basically start a whole new set of threads. In addition the tool in the link is very fast as you just basically set it and then unthread it. I have an OTC version that I seldom use but it's indispensable when needed.

Re: Hub Puller Bad Gateway Update

Originally Posted by M J D

https://www.amazon.com/dp/B07XRKJFPB...ing=UTF8&psc=1 get yourself something like this. Add a thin washer or 2 under the nut, preferably new. This will get you into a better spot on the threads. Being an adjustment nut it's not under a lot of force. Apply some red loctite and should be good for the rest of the machines lifetime. Ideally the shaft would have been longer with more threads and 2 thin nuts with a lock tab like a large trailer spindle would have been a better setup.

I've always wanted a set of thread files. I never saw the tool you linked to. Pretty neat. I'm wondering which is better.........files, or tool

Re: Hub Puller Bad Gateway Update

https://www.amazon.com/dp/B07XRKJFPB...ing=UTF8&psc=1 get yourself something like this. Add a thin washer or 2 under the nut, preferably new. This will get you into a better spot on the threads. Being an adjustment nut it's not under a lot of force. Apply some red loctite and should be good for the rest of the machines lifetime. Ideally the shaft would have been longer with more threads and 2 thin nuts with a lock tab like a large trailer spindle would have been a better setup.

Re: Hub Puller Bad Gateway Update

The staking damage to the nut didn't make the problem. The nut itself, going on, did the damage. Likewise, it didn't do any more damage coming off.......everything was already ruined. I hate morons. I dunno if my Uncle worked on it, or had his buddy work on it, or took it somewhere...........either way......whoever did it deserves a prize.

Re: Hub Puller Bad Gateway Update

Originally Posted by leightrepairs

Easiest way that I have found to deal with a nut that the threads have ben staked is to simply drill the staked portion out. This removes the deformed material, you just need to go a little bigger in diameter then the deformed area and slightly deeper. Looking a what you are working on I would guess it has been repaired before, typically manufactures that use a lock nut with a lock ring like pictured would not also stake the threads.

I believe you called it right. This thing was ruined by the last person who got in the gearbox. I hate morons, I really do.

Attachment 1730150

Attachment 1730151 I think the damn thing was either cross threaded, or otherwise ruined, when the nut was put back on the shaft after an earlier "repair". It had to be staked, so they thought, to keep it from coming off due to the damaged threads.

Attachment 1730153 The nut is ruined. Note the crushed minor thread diameter. The peaks were flattened.

Attachment 1730154

Attachment 1730158 Some of the thread still looks good, but I don't trust it at this point. The nut cannot be placed freely back on the shaft, so the bad thread, and nut makes it a no-go.

A new shaft, if in stock, is about $300. New nut, which I need anyway, is about $17. It appears that the bearings, and cups are still good. I need to balance the cost of the shaft against the price of a new machine, or a used one which might be in just as bad shape. New shaft gets us in business as soon as it arrives, while leaving me free time to do other stuff that needs doing. $300 only buys about 6-7 bales. My work time is more valuable right now.

If I can get rid of the chisel damage, it's still not a sure thing that the damaged thread will hold a nut properly. The thread is good beyond the damaged area, which might be enough to hold a new nut. Grind out the damage, and thread on either side of the damage might take a nut, and the nut might act as a thread chaser. It's not like there's any torque on the nut, and I don't know what the force is when it's holding the endplay in adjustment. Probably not that much.

I think this was a one way trip when it was reassembled. They F'd it up, knew it,, and used the chisel/punch in an attempt at keeping it together. It worked, but it was, like I say, a one way trip.

Re: Hub Puller Bad Gateway Update

Attachment 1730147

Attachment 1730148

Attachment 1730149 At least ONE problem solved,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,

Re: Hub Puller Bad Gateway Update

Here’s a serious suggestion:

In my part of the world, I’ll bet half the old rotary cutters in existence- including my old 7’ Woods- have had their gearboxes drained and refilled with corn head grease because of a leaky seal. Were it mine, and needing to use it, I’d flush that gearbox with diesel, put that nut back on and stake it, put the cover on, throw a new seal in, fill it up with cornhead grease, and get my mowing done. I don’t use mine that much in the scheme of things- who cares if I need to add a little once in a while?

Re: Hub Puller Bad Gateway Update

Easiest way that I have found to deal with a nut that the threads have ben staked is to simply drill the staked portion out. This removes the deformed material, you just need to go a little bigger in diameter then the deformed area and slightly deeper. Looking a what you are working on I would guess it has been repaired before, typically manufactures that use a lock nut with a lock ring like pictured would not also stake the threads.

Re: Hub Puller Bad Gateway Update

Attachment 1730143 Oh, if only...................................

Oooooomph!!!!!!!!!!!!

Attachment 1730144 Stupid dog musta been turning in a circle while sprayin' it all over the place

Re: Hub Puller Bad Gateway Update

everything's on hold anyways, at least for the morning

K'kins is off to Dollar General seeing if they have a carpet cleaner machine for rent

Dog crapped ALL OVER MY GLOBAL TRADING CENTER WET SLIMEY CRAP.

Worst thing..............IT'S MY FAULT. He was wanting out around 4:00AM, and I thought he just wanted to get at the coyotes, and wouldn't let him out Boy was I wrong

Now he won't come back in the house since she left......................Hell, I don't blame him...........smells like dog crap in here

Re: Hub Puller Bad Gateway Update

Originally Posted by Meltedmetal

I know its a little late to mention this and by dismantling the gear box you can clean/check it properly but I've pulled seals like the one you are working to replace by drilling a small hole in the metal of the seal and using a codged up slide hammer with a sheet metal screw brazed to the end. Just a belated thought.

That might have worked. I tried everything else, but all it did was mangle, and I still couldn't get under it to get leverage to pry it out. The metal in the middle was too thin, and all the seal sides did was collapse but not move. Then I started to worry about dinging the bore, and I gave up. Sheeeeesh!

Re: Hub Puller Bad Gateway Update

I know its a little late to mention this and by dismantling the gear box you can clean/check it properly but I've pulled seals like the one you are working to replace by drilling a small hole in the metal of the seal and using a codged up slide hammer with a sheet metal screw brazed to the end. Just a belated thought.

Re: Hub Puller Bad Gateway Update

Originally Posted by farmersammm

I don't know that I'd have the confidence to go into the space between the keyway, and the nut, with a die grinderAttachment 1730138. I need to go to Tulsa for some stuff........I'll probably stop by the dealer to take a look at a new nut. I'm betting it's deformed right from the factory, which means it's going to be a bear to get back on. I'd bet they use an impact socket to do these (get them close to where the preload is set). No way the socket I made would stand up to an impact gun.

I think you're probably right about the interference fit on the gear. I hope the water contamination didn't rust it to the shaft.

Speaking of water...........This gearbox has always been full of water when I get ready to use it once a year maybe. Too much to lay it off on just condensation...........tons of water. I'm thinking I might be looking at a new front input shaft seal too. It's always leaked a bit from the input shaft...................if oil's getting out, water might be getting in.

You only have to get the top 3 threads or so, those small spots don't affect the rest of the threads. Done it many times on CMI grader spanner nuts on the drive sprockets and reused all of them.

Re: Hub Puller Bad Gateway Update

Originally Posted by 12V71

First... the stakes I use a very pointy die grinder burr in the keyways to take out the staked threads, Second... if that nut sets the preload on the tapered bearings, I doubt the gear is that tight on the shaft. I deal with that stuff all the time with New Holland swather header drive gearboxes.

I don't know that I'd have the confidence to go into the space between the keyway, and the nut, with a die grinderAttachment 1730138. I need to go to Tulsa for some stuff........I'll probably stop by the dealer to take a look at a new nut. I'm betting it's deformed right from the factory, which means it's going to be a bear to get back on. I'd bet they use an impact socket to do these (get them close to where the preload is set). No way the socket I made would stand up to an impact gun.

I think you're probably right about the interference fit on the gear. I hope the water contamination didn't rust it to the shaft.

Speaking of water...........This gearbox has always been full of water when I get ready to use it once a year maybe. Too much to lay it off on just condensation...........tons of water. I'm thinking I might be looking at a new front input shaft seal too. It's always leaked a bit from the input shaft...................if oil's getting out, water might be getting in.

Re: Hub Puller Bad Gateway Update

First... the stakes I use a very pointy die grinder burr in the keyways to take out the staked threads, Second... if that nut sets the preload on the tapered bearings, I doubt the gear is that tight on the shaft. I deal with that stuff all the time with New Holland swather header drive gearboxes.

Re: Hub Puller Bad Gateway Update

A piece of thin plate was cut, and welded to the tubing to make the "roof" of the socket.

Attachment 1730133 The welds are nothing more than very hot tack welds. The idea is to keep heat to a minimum. There's no need for bigger welds. The weak links in the chain are the castellated fingers that grab the nut, so the welds need only be as strong as those fingers.

Attachment 1730134 Centered the nut, and tacked it on the outside. Then the inside was welded to the plate. After welding, the tack ground off.

Attachment 1730135 All set for what I thought was a fairly straightforward job.

This Ruined our Evening

Attachment 1730136 I mentioned earlier that the nut was staked. This is what "staked" means, for those not familiar with the term. When a nut is installed, a punch is used to deform the thread so that the nut won't back off easily. Or, when the nut is made, it's staked to deform the threads prior to installation. Well.....................it accomplished its mission

It took us close to half an hour to get the damn thing off. I had to hold the socket down with all the pressure I could manage, to keep it from tilting as the wrench was turned, so it wouldn't come off the nut. Meanwhile......................................... ......................

Attachment 1730137 I had to give a 3/4 drive breaker bar, with a pipe extension, to K'kins so she could turn the nut while I held the socket. It was a miserable job. Even with the breaker bar, she had to put her back into it to get it to turn. PITA Naturally, a nut of this type is usually fine thread...............which takes about a bazillion turns to get off

I have this horrible feeling that the gear is a press fit, or at least a very tight interference fit.............WHICH MEANS THIS THING MIGHT HAVE TO BE REMOVED, AND PUT ON A PRESS. Probably weighs close to 150lbs. I might just weld some plates on the deck of the mower, and use the Mother of All Pullers. I might get lucky, and be able to drive the shaft through the gear. All of this to replace a stinkin' seal

Re: Hub Puller Bad Gateway Update

On tube like that if you reverse your jaws and hold from the inside you will get better results holding it. Not always possible but it helps. As for the chatter, hard to explain that, must be that the tube is more rigid if your trying to expand it.

Re: Hub Puller Bad Gateway Update

Hey guys, thanks for the ideas. It turned out to be amazingly simple. I was using the wrong technique.

Attachment 1730104 Round tubing mills better when you work from the inside out I guess there's two possible explanations..........One, the force presses against the chuck jaws instead of pressing away from the jaws.........Two, the end mill likes to enter the metal on an inside curve, less shock, and a broader face to take the force of the mill. Either way, it worked.

I still don't really know what this stuff is. I tried a HSS end mill, and even with coolant, it started screaming. It simply wouldn't cut it without the high pitched whine. This tells you that it's probably bad for the cutting edge I'm thinking. Switched to a carbide fine rougher, and it went much better. Vibration was an issue at anything over .050 DOC. This stuff is NASTY.

The Glamour Shot

Attachment 1730105 It was a real bit of work to clean up all the burrs. Lot of time with a little file.

Attachment 1730106

Attachment 1730107

Attachment 1730108 I'll weld a top on it tomorrow (I hope it's weldable) then weld a large nut to the cover for a wrench to grab.