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Re: I need a recommendation (please)

I have wondered if some of the zombie threads get resurrected by spammers whose post get deleted but the thread then still shows up in "New Posts". ?

Re: I need a recommendation (please)

Not to be a Debby downer here, BUT the original post is from 2010. Most of the information is from then or 2014, making most of the recommendations useless. I really don't understand why people resurrect zombie posts. I wish the moderators would lock these from further comment

Re: I need a recommendation (please)

Sorry to stir the pot but here goes.

I was you 10 years ago. I went down the path of stick. Did that a couple years and learned a lot. For me stick is well suited to heavier weldments and has serious limitations for anything less than 14g and even there it was a challenge. Then I went with TIG. I practiced and quickly surpassed my stick welding results and opened the door to welding pretty much anything I want in steel, aluminum, stainless from 0.030 thick and up. Ya, consumables are bit more than stick or but it's a hobby, it's not supposed to make sense.

Re: I need a recommendation (please)

Hate to throw a wrench in the works but after reading a lot of what OP seems to be needing this for almost sounds like he is more a candidate for a tig machine rather than a mig or maybe a multi machine.

I would choose tig over mig most days if I could only have one for mall projects. Nice to be able to have full control over deposition and no sparks in the garage.

Re: I need a recommendation (please)

Originally Posted by Steverlord

Thank you! This is valuable information that I needed.
I've been treading through opinions online and can't decide who to believe.
Thank goodness for this forum and the good people involved.

Steve

You are new here, Steve so give it a few more days for some members to inundate you with conflicting and bad advice.

“WW. The birthplace of fake news”

Re: I need a recommendation (please)

Thank you! This is valuable information that I needed.
I've been treading through opinions online and can't decide who to believe.
Thank goodness for this forum and the good people involved.

Steve

Re: I need a recommendation (please)

I vote for the mig also, I have recently added a Lincoln round top 250 ac/dc and a Lincoln weldan power 225/210 with my 180c, sure glad I started with mig cause this stick stuff is a steep learning curve, I have been looking at the Century 255 with spool gun for under $1400 @ usa weld, and the HTP 250, might give those a look. I would love to have the Lincoln 255

Re: I need a recommendation (please)

I know you said a new machine is preferred, but if I were you I would check out a used Lincoln or Miller tombstone stick welder. They run ~$100-150 for an AC only welder, or ~$250 for AC/DC. A buzz box will hold value, and possibly even appreciate, while a small MIG will only lose value if you want to sell later on.

The characteristics of the stick and MIG processes for a hobbyist are pretty much;

Stick buzzbox (~$150)
-Cheap to buy, low operating costs. These are rock solid machines and will last for just about forever. Pretty much no maintenance other than just blowing the dust out of the inside every once in a while, no consumables to mess with. A wide variety of rods are available pretty much anywhere at a wide range of qualities and prices.
-Takes a little longer to learn compared to MIG. It helps to use easy rods like 7024 for practice, then move on 7018 etc.
-Works best for mild steel and stainless 1/8" or thicker. After some practice you will be able to make good welds down to 16 ga or so. Cast iron and aluminum rods are also available, but its probably best to wait until you have mastered mild steel before trying to weld these materials.
-A tombstone will give you a LOT of power for the money. You will be able to run pretty much any rod out there on 225 amps.
-Stick will weld equally well in the shop or outside, as it is not affected by wind. It is very easy to run out a long lead from your machine to an inaccessible workpiece (check out bridge welders!)
-Stick will burn through rust, dirt, paint, galvanizing (but be careful of the fumes) and pretty much any other surface contamination you have, although this may affect the quality of the weld depending on the extent of the contamination.
-When you are starting out, you will have a LOT more weld clean up to do than with a MIG. However, after a while as you learn better techniques slag will peel off easy, and you will get less spatter. Rods like 7018 and 7024 also tend to be "cleaner". Still something to consider if you plan on painting and prettying up your projects.
-Your project designs using a stick welder will likely want to incorporate more angle steel and plate, and less thin wall tubing and thin sheet metal. Depending on what you plan to do this may be a limitation.
-If you are good you will get bragging rights!

110 MIG (~$1000-1500)
-Expensive, high operating costs. You will need to keep the welder stocked with;
(a) Wire
(b) Gas
(c) Contact tip and nozzle (you will burn through these fast while learning)
-Depreciates in value. Mechanically complex, with lots of moving parts and electronics that can break.
-Very easy to learn. If you are having difficulty with position welding, try a triggering technique. Not exactly code quality, but it holds up fine for most hobbyist stuff.
-Will weld most common metals. Mild steel, stainless, aluminum are all options, although each needs a special shielding gas and wire, and possibly new drive rolls or a spool gun ($$$)
-Great for thin gage metal, but limited over 1/8"
-Your project designs with a MIG will want to use thin wall tubing and sheet metal more than heavy angle or plate. This may be limitation depending on what you are doing.
-MIG requires squeaky clean joints- no rust or paint, and best to remove mill scale.
-Not very mobile- pretty much confined to the shop, as MIG relies on shielding gas that will blow away outside.
-Clean welds that don't require much cleanup are easy to get. Still a good idea to wire wheel off the grey oxide layer.

Bottom line- consider what kinds of projects you will be doing, do your research, get the machine you need. Consider that you may end up giving up on this if it is just a hobby, so take into account resale value of whatever you get. Whichever option you end up going with, get a good red or blue machine not Chinese crap (I would stay away from the Mexican Home Depot Lincoln MIGs too). Save your HF coupons for the blue angle grinder.

Edit: damn, just realized how old this thread was. Still I hope this post will help someone.

Re: I need a recommendation (please)

I have a miller dc inverter (cst 280) and just recently bought a miller 211. I have used the 211 a lot but if I had to have one welder it would be my inverter. I can stick and tig weld with it. I think mig is great if you are fabbing in a small area. I find my self still grabing the stick welder a lot because I want to move around. And I had a lincoln tombstone before the inverter. I would never recommend one. I find stick welding with the dc inverter to be much much easier and smoother than the lincoln. I bought the cst 280 used so got it for $750. You can get a maxstar in your price range. I work in a pharmaceutical plant and most all the contractors here (pipe fitters) have moved to the miller maxstar welders for the portability. They look like toys but are not toys.

Re: I need a recommendation (please)

Tremendous learning curve for stick, esp if you don't have someone to teach you. I vote for MIG too

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Re: I need a recommendation (please)

anyone?

Re: I need a recommendation (please)

well I'm looking for a welder most likely used, budget $750. At the moment I can only run on a 110v. whats a good one to get? I want to use it to make amp rack and mounting accessories for car audio.

Re: I need a recommendation (please)

Phil said to tell you all that he is either busy welding or he gave the whole idea up and too up golf instead. UFO's, is that who those guys were?? He probably bought a stick welder like he should have done in the first place and didn't want to offend anyone.---Meltedmetal

Re: I need a recommendation (please)

What ever happened to Phil? Did he fall off the edge of the world? He made three posts and disappeared, never to be heard from again. Maybe he was abducted by a UFO Did you ever get a welding machine Phil?

Re: I need a recommendation (please)

Suprised no one has recommended the Hobart ironman 230. Never heard a bad thing, and is a lot of welder for the money.

Ha 3 year old thread. Need to be more observant .

Re: I need a recommendation (please)

Nother Zombie thread...

Re: I need a recommendation (please)

the Hobart Handler 210MVP is equal to the MillerMatic 211.
Little bit lower price.

~John

Re: I need a recommendation (please)

I have done a lot of welding with a Lincoln 255, it is a great welder, I own a 211. For hobby use the 211 is the best investment IMO.

The thing I would think of is the cost if the thing breaks down or you want to add accessories, both things are cheaper with the 211. You could really set yourself up nice with a 211 on a $2K budget.

Re: I need a recommendation (please)

If you have a Local Welding Store within 7 miles, swing by and open up an account with them. Talk to the counter guy and let him/her know that you are interested in buying a welder.
Ask them if they plan on having a "open house" or something like that. One of the LWSs near me has an open house every summer. They get the factory reps/salesman from Miller, Lincoln, Tweco, Victor, Esab and others to display and demonstrate their stuff. They'll let costumers play around with the latest and greatest equipment……. I have to leave my wallet at home.
Anyway, you may find that you can get a chance to "sample" a couple of display machines which may or may not help you decide on which machine to buy.
Good luck and keep us posted if you can.

Re: I need a recommendation (please)

1. Tips can last a long time or you can toast 'em in a split second. Just depends on how good/careful you are. They're cheap anyway.
2. Around here, a 125 cf bottle costs around $250 up front + fill.
3. Expect about $2 a pound or so.
4. Not if you buy a quality machine. Aluminum feed mechanism with steel rollers is preferred.
5. Depends on use. In the past I've had bottles last for almost a year with little use. I've also gone through a bottle in just a few days.
6. Yes, you typically just trade the empty for a full and pay for the gas. Around here a 125cf bottle of 75/25 runs about $40.

Re: I need a recommendation (please)

Originally Posted by Philsworld

Questions:
1: how long do the gun tips last? What other consumables other than the wire would I have to worry about?

Depends on how good a welder you are. Usually people wreck the tips when they have the settings way wrong, or hold the tip too close. At the tech school with 20 guys all learning mig, I'd bet one guy would F up a tip every other class. Thats about one in 30-60 hrs of weld time learning. Tips are usually the big one. Eventually you may need new rollers or a new liner, but usually you'd have to put a ton of wire thru the machine before you get to that.

Originally Posted by Philsworld

2: how much does a tank of gas cost (I'm assuming CO2)?
.

You have a couple of options on gas. 100% CO2 or "mig mix" (usually 75/25 but there are others.)are used with mild steel. You would use 100% argon to weld Alum, and there are special mixes for stainless as well. Cost of a fill depends on the size of the cylinder and where you are at and the gas. Most hobby guys get cyl from 60cf to 125cf. "Pros" often opt for larger cylinders as it's cheaper per cf to get gas in larger cyl and the cost of lost work due to down time is often more than the cost of the gas. CO2 is the cheapest, but 75/25 usually is better for thinner steel and gives nicer beads.

Originally Posted by Philsworld

6: would I buy the tank\gas initially and then go back for refills or just trade in the empty for a new filled bottle?
.

Most buy a cylinder and then swap the cylinder for a ful one. Some suppliers will fill customer cylinders and return them, but thats becoming less common and in many cases you'd have to wait till your cylinder comes back from getting refilled which can be a pain. Larger cylinders (usually over 125cf) are only rented/leased by some companies. They will not fiill/exchange customer owned cylinders. If you buy a large cyl. be sure you can get it filled and that it's not a rental someone just kept.

Originally Posted by Philsworld

5: how long should a tank of gas last me?

Again it depends on what size you got and what your flow rate is. Flow is set at Cubic feet per hour. Set the reg at 20CFH and an 80cf cyl will last 4 hours of weld time. 15-20 CFH is normal for most.

Originally Posted by Philsworld

3: how much does a spool of wire cost?
.

Depends on the size of the roll and type of wire. The last time I bought solid wire I want to say it ran about $30 for an 11lb roll. FC wire was more, I'm thinking $60-70. Stainless, alum and specialty wires would be more.

Originally Posted by Philsworld

4: should I have to worry about dependability of the mechanics (wire feed, etc...) over the long term?.

Most top end name brand machines (Miller/Lincoln) will give years of flawless service in an industrial setting. The lower end "homeowner" machines by Miller/Lincoln/Hobart will last years in light to medium use with out issues.



Keep a few things in mind. All things have good and bad points and you have to pick what fits best for you and your needs. I would most likely not suggest someone down size on a machine, but the 250amp class machines are entering the "industrial" class and is more than most "hobbyists" need. They give you more options and power, but at the price of being tied to the shop. They are not usually considered "portable" by any means other than they roll around the shop. They usually require 30+amps 230v power. Even if you manage to load it in your truck and take it to a friends to do some work, you will need to be able to power it there.

Small 110v units are way under powered for anything but thin metal 1/8" and less. They are very light and portable and can be run off most standard outlets at lower levels, but lack the umph to do most hobby projects people want to do.

The MM211 is nice because it gives you the best of both worlds. Often people find all sorts of things that friends want done as soon as they learn you weld. Not all can be easily brought to you. I fixed a railing at my parents in Va over christmas with my little 110v machine. My big 230v mig would have been a better choice, but there was no 230v power there to use and it wouldn't have been worth installing it for a few welds. On the other hand 95% of the work I do with mig I couldn't do with my small machine, in fact I'm keeping my eye open for a 300 amp class machine if I can find one used in my price range.

Re: I need a recommendation (please)

It looks like most of you are recommending a MIG. I looked at the Miller 211. Yes, it is nice. And, the price is right, leaving me some money left over for a nice hood, wire, etc.... I do have a full 2K to invest. I might get something with a little more "juice". I looked at the Lincoln 255 but I haven't decided. I like the idea of visiting one of the local welding stores (one is within about 7 miles of me) and seeing what they have to offer. All of you have given me great advice. I think off of you collectively have convinced me to get a MIG. It offers me more versitility and honestly I think my welds will be better than a stick, at least over the short term. This is a geat forum and I appreciate your help. (I think I'm hooked).

Questions:
1: how long do the gun tips last? What other consumables other than the wire would I have to worry about?
2: how much does a tank of gas cost (I'm assuming CO2)?
3: how much does a spool of wire cost?
4: should I have to worry about dependability of the mechanics (wire feed, etc...) over the long term?
5: how long should a tank of gas last me?
6: would I buy the tank\gas initially and then go back for refills or just trade in the empty for a new filled bottle?

Phil.

Re: I need a recommendation (please)

one more vote for the 211

Re: I need a recommendation (please)

I would go with the 211. I bought one last week and just fired it up today on 120v. I really like this welder. I have a Lincoln 180T but had a little extra money and thought I would get the 211 because of its dual voltage capability. It was either a new welder or a new rifle and I got way more rifles than I have welders.Miller has a thing going now where if you buy the 211 along with the spool gun they will give you a 100 dollar rebate, and that is what I did.

The 211 is worth the extra money in my book. It looks like Miller got the idea of the dual voltage from HTP, can anybody verify that??

Re: I need a recommendation (please)

Hello Phil and welcome to the forum.
I was in your place about 3 years ago, so I can empathize with trying to make the best decision. I had worked as a welder helper during college many years ago, but never learned to weld. I needed to learn to weld for a project and have been addicted since.
I started with a Millermatic 140AS and loved welding with it. It was easy and handled everything I wanted at the time. I bought an autodark helmet, chopsaw, grinders, etc. which you need to include in your budget. After about a year, I sold my 140 and bought the Millermatic 211AS the guys are recommending - boy! am I glad.
It was not available when I bought my first welder or I would regret having bought the 140AS. I think you will be happy if you go ahead and buy the 211, then if you want to you can buy a AC/DC stick welder later. BTW, give your local welding store a chance to sell you a welder. They will be an asset for when you are buying gas, wire, accessories, etc.
Good luck, let us know what you decide, and post some pictures!