Primeweld AC/DC Tig 225X

hi all,
bought a primeweld tig225 but having trouble connect the device to power supply. i live in europe and we have 230v, 16A here in standard outlets but according to primeweld 16A is not enough. in the user manual there is only mention of "rated input current" of 33.3 Ampere @230V but no mention of a current range for the input for the machine to work. the primeweld employee i emailed refused to answer the question multiple times so i am turning you to you wonderful beings.
so my question is: what is the lowest current of power supply @230V that worked for you?

230 volts 33.5 amps minimum if you want to use all 225 amps of output. On a 16 amp service you will only be able to use about 1/2 the output or about 120 amps.

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Originally Posted by ceejaye

hi all,
bought a primeweld tig225 but having trouble connect the device to power supply. i live in europe and we have 230v, 16A here in standard outlets but according to primeweld 16A is not enough. in the user manual there is only mention of "rated input current" of 33.3 Ampere @230V but no mention of a current range for the input for the machine to work. the primeweld employee i emailed refused to answer the question multiple times so i am turning you to you wonderful beings.
so my question is: what is the lowest current of power supply @230V that worked for you?

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I wouldn't expect a company to answer that sort of question, for a number of reasons. They base their specifications on a certain input power and all of their charts and performance specs are based upon that. They may not have even tested a machine at half rated amperage to see what happens...no real reason to I can think of. Here in the U.S. the lowest amperage 230V circuit you will normally see is 30A. In many cases you can get rated output power with a circuit breaker quite a bit smaller than the specs call for, but how much will vary on a number of factors....actual voltage, quality of the circuit breaker, size of the wires, etc.

There's a good chance you'll get somewhat more than 50% output amperage on 16A input, but until you hook it up and try it, there's no way to know.

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Originally Posted by G-ManBart

I wouldn't expect a company to answer that sort of question, for a number of reasons. They base their specifications on a certain input power and all of their charts and performance specs are based upon that. They may not have even tested a machine at half rated amperage to see what happens...no real reason to I can think of. Here in the U.S. the lowest amperage 230V circuit you will normally see is 30A.

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thank you for your answer. the fact that the lowest amperage of a 230V circuit in america is 30A gives me some idea of assumptions made.
would love to know if anybody has tested the welder at 25A, an local electrician told me that creating anything above 25A would cost an arm and a leg.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by G-ManBart

In many cases you can get rated output power with a circuit breaker quite a bit smaller than the specs call for, but how much will vary on a number of factors....actual voltage, quality of the circuit breaker, size of the wires, etc.

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how would that work? i am not following you.

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Originally Posted by G-ManBart

I wouldn't expect a company to answer that sort of question, for a number of reasons. They base their specifications on a certain input power and all of their charts and performance specs are based upon that. They may not have even tested a machine at half rated amperage to see what happens...no real reason to I can think of.

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i personally do not know a company besides primeweld that does not specify the assumptions for power supply in their own specs AND plainly refuses to answer the question what current range is needed for a device to work. as of the reason why to test and show those specs: because the world is bigger then the USA and everywhere are different standards in power supply so some need to make adaptations to their power to make the welder work if it does not work with their standard power supply : all other brands work with 230v/16A without a problem.

the 230v 33amp rating is to protect you, your house wiring and the machine. all three need protecting. the house wiring has to match the the circuit breaker size, no smaller but wire can be bigger than rated breaker or fuse. just not smaller. if smaller and breaker doesn't trip, could start fire from overload and burn house. that why welders arte rated at a MINIMUM amperage.

hope this was stated right. if not please correct

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Originally Posted by duramax-rob

the 230v 33amp rating is to protect you, your house wiring and the machine. all three need protecting. the house wiring has to match the the circuit breaker size, no smaller but wire can be bigger than rated breaker or fuse. just not smaller. if smaller and breaker doesn't trip, could start fire from overload and burn house. that why welders arte rated at a MINIMUM amperage.

hope this was stated right. if not please correct

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i totally get that the wiring from the breaker to the welder should be able to take more current then the breaker rating.
not following how you arrive at the conclusion that welders are rated at a MINIMUM amperage. would you be willing to explain?

the only thing i can imagine is that if the welder asks more power then the rating of the circuitbreaker it wil switches off during welding. but this would be more like an inconvinience then a safety issue if the circuit braker is the designed bottleneck and not the wiring. please correct me if the reasoning is incorrect.

I think Rob was referring to minimum power circuit amperage to handle the maximum current draw of the machine.

I am completely new here but this thread and alot of other research has led me to purchase this machine. Welding is my career and have been at it for 16 years.
I'm pretty excited to purchase it. I did own a lincoln square wave 175 about 12 years ago.
The main thing that I've been searching for at this point is who is making them in china. What Factory. Is it a big name or new comer. There's a few machines that all look alike but this one has been getting a cult following like none other

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Originally Posted by ceejaye

how would that work? i am not following you.

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I'm not an electrician, much less an electrical theory expert, but I think the basic theory isn't too complicated. When you're talking about circuit breakers, amp draws, etc there are a lot of factors involved. The machine is only 230V in theory....in reality it's capable of working properly within a range of voltage. Then there's the supply....it might be called 230V, but often it's different (often higher). Then there's your breaker....it might be labelled 30A, but it takes more than that to trip them, and no two are identical and then there's a time factor as well.

Manufacturers are going to be conservative when they say how much power you need to supply just in case someone is trying to just barely get by, or a machine happens to wind up with a component that's a bit less than ideal. That means the listed required input power is probably a worst case scenario. Then you've got a supply which is probably a bit higher than listed....so you're really getting 240V rather than 230V and that lowers the amp load. Then you've got a breaker which takes more amperage to trip than listed, and it doesn't happen instantaneously. All of that adds up to a situation where the welder might have 50A listed as the required input for rated output, but the machine will have no problem putting out rated output on a circuit with a smaller breaker.

As an example, my Miller Syncrowave 250DX is listed as needing 96A at 230V to put out 250A. I normally run it on a 60A breaker, but have run it at 250A output on a 40A breaker with no problems. I'd love to know what the actual amp draw is, but I can't imagine you can pull 96A through a 40A breaker for more than a few seconds without tripping the breaker.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by ceejaye

i personally do not know a company besides primeweld that does not specify the assumptions for power supply in their own specs AND plainly refuses to answer the question what current range is needed for a device to work. as of the reason why to test and show those specs: because the world is bigger then the USA and everywhere are different standards in power supply so some need to make adaptations to their power to make the welder work if it does not work with their standard power supply : all other brands work with 230v/16A without a problem.

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I certainly can't speak for any welder manufacturers, but all the machines I've owned list a required input power to achieve rated output power and seem to leave it at that.

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Originally Posted by duramax-rob

the 230v 33amp rating is to protect you, your house wiring and the machine. all three need protecting. the house wiring has to match the the circuit breaker size, no smaller but wire can be bigger than rated breaker or fuse. just not smaller. if smaller and breaker doesn't trip, could start fire from overload and burn house. that why welders arte rated at a MINIMUM amperage.

hope this was stated right. if not please correct

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When it comes to welders, and the National Electric Code, this isn't actually correct. The NEC has a dedicated section to non-continuous loads, with a section on welders and how you calculate the wires and breakers for them.

The short version is that you can have a larger breaker for a given wire size than you would in a standard circuit. Since welders aren't continuous loads the wires have the opportunity to cool off, so the load can be higher. The code has a chart with multipliers....you factor the amp draw, duty cycle, etc and it will tell you how big a breaker you can run on a given wire size. In many cases you can go as much as double the breaker size compared with a standard circuit.

I believe it's code that the welder outlet is clearly marked so someone doesn't plug in something like a compressor and run it for 8 hours straight bead blasting a car frame or something similar.

doesnt Europe, and other 220/230V countries use a single hot and single neutral in the outlets? and 50hz? idk if the frequency would matter but how would you wire a US 220V machine (2 hot 1 neutral) to your outlet?

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Originally Posted by superwelder

doesnt Europe, and other 220/230V countries use a single hot and single neutral in the outlets? and 50hz? idk if the frequency would matter but how would you wire a US 220V machine (2 hot 1 neutral) to your outlet?

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the general used outlet in netherlands is 2 poles and 1 ground, but it has a current rating of 16A max. so a different outlet is needed. there is no wholesale company i can find that sells the NEMA 6-50 as outlet. if you know one, i would love to know! the alternative i have my eye on is a CEE plug with a 32A rating if i go for 32A breaker, and not sure what to use if i go for 40A breaker.

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Originally Posted by superwelder

doesnt Europe, and other 220/230V countries use a single hot and single neutral in the outlets? and 50hz? idk if the frequency would matter but how would you wire a US 220V machine (2 hot 1 neutral) to your outlet?

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You don't use neutral for 230/240. You use both hots and ground.

Another note is that ground and neutral are bonded at the service entrance panels (not sub panels) - at least in residential. I would imagine most commercial buildings that have single phase are the same way. This means that if you take any hot to ground you will get 115-120v. However, it is not to code to run current this way - if you need 115-120v for a load you need neutral. Ground should be ground.

My point - for 230-240v you need 3 wires - both hots and ground. Not 4 - the 4th being neutral.

On the subject of breakers and current draw - I have my welder (not a Primeweld, but doesn't matter - just a numerical example on current) on a 30a circuit. I have pulled over 40a from the breaker. The higher the current above the rated load the shorter the duration the breaker holds. It does not trip instantaneously unless the current draw is pretty high or a dead short occurs.

A friend of mine picked up a Prime weld 225ACDCP and wanted me to try it out.
I started with some aluminium it ran fine. Pic attached.

I switched to DC and was going to run beads on steel and stainless. It is burning up the tungsten. I tried with the grey 3/32" that came with the machine. I put a 3/32" red tungsten in and the same thing is happening.

I am running about 20 cfh of Argon. Same bottle on aluminium as on steel.

Ideas or suggestions welcome.



https://images.platforum.cloud/uploads/202...58d48c05d7.jpghttps://images.platforum.cloud/uploads/202...e865945fa4.jpghttps://images.platforum.cloud/uploads/202...533778888e.jpghttps://images.platforum.cloud/uploads/202...f08d713c06.jpghttps://images.platforum.cloud/uploads/202...68b528edae.jpghttps://images.platforum.cloud/uploads/202...404b889ac4.jpghttps://images.platforum.cloud/uploads/202...16829e9fb4.jpg

Sent from my SM-G996U using Tapatalk
https://images.platforum.cloud/uploads/202...bff84ffc23.jpg

Nevermind. I had the ground connected to the negative terminal on the machine.
Once I switched the ground to the positive and the torch to the negative, it works fine.


Sent from my SM-G996U using Tapatalk

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Originally Posted by psacustomcreations

Nevermind. I had the ground connected to the negative terminal on the machine.
Once I switched the ground to the positive and the torch to the negative, it works fine.


Sent from my SM-G996U using Tapatalk

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That would do it. Otherwise steel often times requires a little more gas flow than aluminum. I didn't have great results on steel or SS with the grey tungsten either. I prefer red for steel or SS.

does anybody know what leaking current rating is best for a choosing a residual current device? has anybody measured the current leakage from the Tig225x?
it is the only missing information to choose the specs of the "residual-current device"

I know that there are online calculators for calculating leakage current on the Internet. You enter the parameters of your machine and then the calculation is done

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Originally Posted by ceejaye

the general used outlet in netherlands is 2 poles and 1 ground, but it has a current rating of 16A max. so a different outlet is needed. there is no wholesale company i can find that sells the NEMA 6-50 as outlet. if you know one, i would love to know! the alternative i have my eye on is a CEE plug with a 32A rating if i go for 32A breaker, and not sure what to use if i go for 40A breaker.

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I have used Newark Electronics Inc. in the US to get pin and sleeve connectors from sister company Farnell - UK , they also have a website for nedelanders :

https://nl.farnell.com/c/connectors/...ating-vac=240v

I often get ABB components from europe from them (Newark via Farnell UK) so you should be able to call them or go on website and order american connectors if you want. They have a one time charge per order for importing component $20 in the USA, and 18 euros for the EU

Hope this helps.

PS the prime weld 225acdc will actually TIG weld AC @ 75-80 amps off a honda 2200watt generator. With a 32 amp 240 volt circuit you would have about 90% of the machines capability. It looks like farnell has 63 amp plugs, and connectors for 240v. I don't know what you would use for a RCD, not overly familiiar with european mains systems.

Good luck

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Originally Posted by C. Livingstone

Nah,

Just not a Debbie Downer...

Of course, I don't mind the banter or antagonism, Hobby. And I'm recently enjoying our semi-debate in the Political Thread, which I seem to be driven into, due to some recent posts of mine being placed there. Previously, I never even bothered to look or post in that thread. But I might start loading up there, since that might be the only place, other than the Everlast Area, that I'm immune from the snowflakes and crybabies. Ha, ha, ha... Otherwise, hopefully the complainers won't come out in George's thread and beg the moderators to relieve their anxiety (as if I'm actually causing it). There's nothing to really cry about here.

I think a new AC/DC TIG unit with AC frequency control to 200Hz is great. 225 amps is a cool niche in amperage, too.

Maybe George will inform us on the max duty-cycle and begin in this thread to give his fuller impression of the AC arc characteristics and HF starts, etc, as I didn't the thread that George did on this unit, only an earlier 250 amp Eastwood MIG unit, that he liked well.

I've seen numerous, extremely good user/buyer feedback regarding other units (identical to one I owned for several years) from the PrimeWeld importer, which reportedly has outstanding support too.

https://www.amazon.com/PrimeWeld-Ct5...imeweld+welder

It's a good time for welding!

Attachment 1684988

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Look at all those controls. It looks like an instrument panel for the space shuttle. I wouldn't even begin to know how to use that welder being an amateur hobby welder myself. Ignorance is bliss in my case, but im happy.

I plan on getting a PrimeWeld plasma cutter. Cant wait to get that bad boy.

hi, been eying this for a while and i think its finally time to pull the trigger. was wondering if PW ever runs sales. if they have blackfriday or end of the year type of sales i can wait that long.

I don't recall any promotions on the 225x. It seems like they are usually temporarily out of stock since there is high demand for them. If anything I would expect a price increase soon as that seems to be the way of everything now.

The only promotion I've seen for prime weld was if you leave a welder in your cart for a certain period of time they will give you $15 dollars off.
Its an $800 machine with decent regulator, good foot pedal, a CK torch, electrode holder, ground clamp, finger switch, ac dc pulse, and free shipping.... How much do you think they are going to take off, thev've been selling out their inventory every month for about 2years now(I think ahp has been too) I don't think they've run any black friday, cyber monday, sales that I've heard of. Although there are rumors of a possible 250 amp machine coming in the future. I couldn't wait , I needed a machine right away, so I put my money down , and waited the 2 weeks to get mine. It was definitely worth the wait.

Its a good machine so far, and I have done some long aluminum welds with it and while the torch may have begun to smell funny, and put a red welt on my leg, the torch, and the machine ran fine . It does a great job on stainless steel too, works great on stainless sanitary tubing, and fittings. Having the ability to change pulse and frequency helps on some of the more difficult to weld situations. You could spend a lot more on a similar machine without these functions.

Oh, and its a great stick welder too. It will run up to 5/32" rods and up to 170 amps

Free shipping, on new machines, and repairs, and returns is another plus. I have dealt with customer service several times , and they stand behind their warranty, and even credit you account within days of receiving your return.

Good luck with whatever you decide https://www.weldingweb.com/images/smilies/biggrin.gif

I just pulled the trigger on the tig225. If you order through their website you can sign up for texts and emails and get a discount code for $25 off. I used that to get the cover for basically free, otherwise it’s still $25 cheaper than Amazon.
Should be here in about two weeks, I’m ready!