We Need An SA-200 Info/FAQ Sticky

[Inkydoggy]

Anyone have the firing order and timing sequence for the Continental engines that have the distributor sticking up in the middle of the flat head instead the the magneto version?

[Alberta Farmer]

Firing order is the same I believe, don't know about timing.

Bruce

[Don D]

Anyone have the firing order and timing sequence for the Continental engines that have the distributor sticking up in the middle of the flat head instead the the magneto version?

firing order 1 3 4 2 if no timing marks I piston top dead center than a just dist tobest running

[duaneb55]

Anyone have the firing order and timing sequence for the Continental engines that have the distributor sticking up in the middle of the flat head instead the the magneto version?

It's not cast into the cylinder head?

[Wolf]

If I remember , somebody correct me if I'm wrong. The flywheel is marked with a DC and a T you use the DC with the mag and number 4 and you use the T and number 1 with a dist. I believe thats the way it goes.
I have a prestolite dist that came out of a 58 laying here, I switched it over to a mag.
The firing order stays the same though

[Fixalinc]

Lincoln timing instructions differ on old manual & later one.

Timing order is the same as said: 1-3-4-2 .

For welders below code 7275 use IM-179-G instructions:

From Lincoln IM-179-G Operating Manual that covers timing, carburetor, governor, & idler adjustments: All Continental engines 4 & 6 use T mark on flywheel marked by red spot for timing magneto. All engines use DC mark on flywheel for distributor ignition, time at 400-500 rpm.

Later manuals say time to #4 but early and all other engines always timed to #1. #1 cylinder is closest to the fan & radiator. #4 is by generator. #1 mark is usually on all dist caps.

How I do it: Just pull #1 plug and get it up on TDC top dead center compression stroke on #1. Then put wires on in rotation it turns CW in the timing order. Not rocket science. I'll try to scan the timing from manuals to put on here later.

Hercules QX engines use QX mark on flywheel for magneto timing. Hercules JX engines use JX mark on flywheel for magneto timing. Hercules G engines use SPARK mark with white line for magneto timing. All brands of engines 4 & 6 use DC flywheel mark for battery distributor timing.

IM-277-A later F163 Continental engine:

For later F163 with electronic idler the IM-277-A instructions say to use the T mark on flywheel for timing both magneto or distributor ignition. Yes, timing order still the same 1-3-4-2 CW rotation when looking at top of the cap. Line up the T mark in slot hole behind the air cleaner using a timing light with engine running high idle 1550 rpm.

[Fixalinc]

Replacing rope oil seal. Best instructions I've seen anywhere on this board or others by duaneb55. Thanks Duane !!

http://weldingweb.com/vbb/showthread.php?t=268641

[Fixalinc]

Lincoln SA200 IM179G Operators Manual covering gasoline F162 & early F163 with Vacuum R57 Idler. Gasoline Engine & Ajustment: Timing, Carburetor, Governor & Idler. Still looking for IM277A download.

http://www.lincolnelectric.com/asset...oln3/im179.pdf

[Fixalinc]

IM-117-B Instructions & Operating Manual for old Bellows Idlers:

http://www.lincolnelectric.com/asset...oln3/im117.pdf

[Fixalinc]

IM-277-A Operating Manual, (October 1990) Gasoline Engine Adjustment: Timing, Carburetor, Governor & Idler. For SA200 F163 (K6090SM & K6090SB) Welders with Electronic Idler. (For welders below Code 7275, see IM-179) Has Trouble Shooting Chart on next to last page.

http://www.lincolnelectric.com/asset...oln3/im277.pdf

[Fixalinc]

IM-179-G.1 Instructions & Parts List for R-57 Idlers

http://www.lincolnelectric.com/Asset...N3/IM179G1.pdf

[Fixalinc]

IM-129 Lincoln, Trouble Shooting Gasoline & Diesel Engines, Hercules, Wisconsin & Continental

http://www.lincolnelectric.com/Asset...OLN3/IM129.pdf

Marvel Schebler Carburetor:

http://www.lincolnelectric.com/Asset...OLN3/IM215.pdf

Old cast iron style Zenith Carb (1957)

http://www.lincolnelectric.com/Asset...OLN3/IM214.pdf

Old style Zenith Carb (1959)

http://www.lincolnelectric.com/Asset...OLN3/IM225.pdf

Continental Engine Manual downloads: (L-Head Flat Head valves in block F162 F163, TM & TMD overhead valve later engines)

http://www.wisconsinmotors.com/part_catalog/continental

Wisconsin Engine Manual download: Old 180 & 200 LincWeld

http://www.wisconsinmotors.com/part_catalog/wisconsin

Wisconsin Engine Accessories: carb, magneto, special tools & other. Old 180 & 200 LincWeld

http://www.wisconsinmotors.com/part_catalog/accessory

Later Zenith Carb Info: Contact Zenith Fuel Systems or can also click my handle Fixalinc to message I am a jobber dealer for Zenith Marvel Schebler.

http://www.zenithfuelsystems.com/carb_catalog.htm

[duaneb55]

I've seen a number of machines that someone changed only one of the main shunt coils - the open one of course - and these photos are proof of exactly why you should NOT cut corners and only change the bad one as long as you have it down.



Both coils with the insulation and inner wrap off. Open coil that prompted their replacement is on the left. Interestingly the one on the right with far more evidence of corrosion actually ohm'd out at 20ohms! ~Half the total 46ohm spec.

A little scraping away of the corrosion soon resulted in the wire breaking so how long do you think it would have lasted once pressed back into service if not replaced?


Close up of the corroded failed winding. I didn't take any photos of the aluminum winding-to-copper lead wires connections so you'll have to take my word for it but there was absolutely no corrosion present at any of them. My point - those connections are not necessarily the "weak link" in the aluminum shunt coils.


This was the "good" one!




Thanks for looking and don't cut corners!

[ironwings]

Duane: Do you have a service manual for SAE300 Code 7171 "73" or "74? I have tried to get into lincoln's site for such and have had no luck at all. Site is either down or no longer in service. Agravating. I have found many service manual sites have been removed from the web.

[Pipeliner]

I have tried to get into lincoln's site for such and have had no luck at all. Site is either down or no longer in service.

OM

http://www.lincolnelectric.com/asset...oln3/im203.pdf

Parts

http://www.lincolnelectric.com/asset...ncoln1/p25.pdf

[kolot]

SA 200 above code 4800 began the 12 volt charging and electrical system. Leads me to believe anything under 4800 was 6 volt.
Found this while researching my operators manual for a code 4150. Never had the Generator properly hooked up, only making 7-8 volts then it dawned on me might be a 6 volt generator. Machine is a 1961 Red/Blue face. Code linked me to IM 208 , that is where I found the breaking point for 6 and 12 volt. Can anyone confirm??

[andex]

Kolot

6 Volt ran thru to code 4745
The first code # for 12V pos ground is 4816, which is a blue face machine.
1961 had codes
4149 Hand Crank, 4150 6 Volt Pos Grnd
4744 Hand Crank, 4745 6 Volt Pos Grnd
4815 Hand Crank, 4816 12 Volt Pos Grnd

[denrep]

Gaskets, Cont. F-163:
Gasket, Cylinder Head - Felpro 7183 PT
Gasket, Intake Manifold - McCord MS-2548, Felpro MS8676B
Gasket, Oil Pan set - Felpro OS30236
Gasket, Valve Cover - Felpro VS5420R

Filter, Gasoline, at carburetor inlet - Purolator F10131

Be prepared to pay. they're shipped all the way from China.

[DavisWelding]

Armature bearing: 208, double-sheilded.

[tignot]

can anyone tell me what points i need for 1979 sa 200 with factory dist. ? thnx...

[TozziWelding]

Ignition parts for a distributor ignition, all NAPA numbers
Points ECH CS88
Cap ECH RR145
Rotor ECH AL107

[Fixalinc]

You apparently can not read or do not understand firing order. The firing for engine stays the same 1-3-4-2 no matter if you timed mag off #1 compression stroke or #4 compression stroke as Lincoln later said to do it both work fine. The FM mags original cap #1 is in top LH tower. For American Bosch and Wico #1 is top RH tower. Put wires in CW direction in firing order. You may have had a old stock FM dist cap that are marked different for the inverted (upside down) mount mag. There were also other other special marked FM J & X dist caps but if has 4 towers they are all the same just marked different. #1 cylinder is close to the radiator and #4 cylinder is by the welding generator.

[TravisMartin]

As to the confusion on the #1 or #4 timing issue. If you think about it, there is absolutely no difference. Each cylinder in a four stroke engine fires every other revolution---#1 and #4 are exactly one crankshaft revolution apart. The same timing mark on the flywheel will work equally well for either. It doesn't matter at all which of the two you clip your timing light to. My guess would be that the later manuals suggest using #4 because it's easier to get to.

[duaneb55]

As to the confusion on the #1 or #4 timing issue. If you think about it, there is absolutely no difference. Each cylinder in a four stroke engine fires every other revolution---#1 and #4 are exactly one crankshaft revolution apart. The same timing mark on the flywheel will work equally well for either. It doesn't matter at all which of the two you clip your timing light to. My guess would be that the later manuals suggest using #4 because it's easier to get to.

Except if you simply bring the DC mark around to the pointer and don't have #4 at TDC of its compression stroke but rather #1 at TDC or overlap between its exhaust and intake strokes and set the mag to fire for #4 guess what? You're 180 degrees out of time resulting in a no start even though there's "good spark", fuel and air which is why the manual instructs to time off #4 because that's where the cam and governor gears timing marks are visible thru the mag hole.

That said, if one knows what they're doing, they can set the mag referencing off ANY cylinder at TDC of its compression stroke.

[TravisMartin]

Well, of course you're right about the orientation of the rotor; I inferred that we were talking about setting the timing by rotating the magneto body. Sorry if I wasn't clear; perhaps I misunderstood the question?