Wet 7018.

[Stick-man]

Hey bite me, this is an open forum, you own it? One of the moderators is in the big middle of it. Anyway aren't you a garbage truck driver who wants to be a welder?

Holy crap! I didn't think it could be any more obvious, THAT IT WAS A JOKE!

Chlorinated WATER?

Dihyrogen oxide??? Please.....

[CEP]

Holy crap! I didn't think it could be any more obvious, THAT IT WAS A JOKE!

Chlorinated WATER?

Dihyrogen oxide??? Please.....

Oh you weren't joking! You used the mad icon. Right now you're trying to do damage control.
If you ever make it off that garbage run, be real careful how you joke with construction workers. Some will grab you by the throat before you complete your sentence.

[Jeromy_E]

I've used some old 7018 and 11018 that came free with the welder I bought before the one I currently have, been sitting in a rod container for probably 2 years and never been in an oven. They weld just fine for practicing and doing some security doors and windows made out of 1/2'' rebar. I probably got 50-75 pounds of each for free so I thought I might as well use them.

[JimboSlice]

What!?! Your welding rods don't come wet?

I've been on big structural jobs and when the hot rods run out in my pouch..I'd just grab a handful out of the rod can tied to the column. Sure as Hell beats squirrel-ing down to the deck and squirrel-ing back up. We always left half a can of old rods up there along with bolts, torch rig, and extra paint for that purpose. Sometimes you just can't stretch it to break time. The only difference I ever noticed was the start up. The hot ones always seem to start up cleaner and easier. I've probably burned 5x more "wet" or old rods than hot fresh ones. I've been on jobs that didn't have an oven on site. It all works. I've never busted out on a test.

Of course this is only my experience on the topic.


Thanks for reading!

[Stick-man]

Cep, that wasn't damage control. Listen, DIHYDROGEN OXIDE POISONING? Get it, or is "WATER POISONING" too dificult for you to understand. And somebody grabs me by the throat..... I might not win them all, but I guaranty I won't be the only one going to the hospital.

[weldermike]

Cep, that wasn't damage control. Listen, DIHYDROGEN OXIDE POISONING? Get it, or is "WATER POISONING" too dificult for you to understand. And somebody grabs me by the throat..... I might not win them all, but I guaranty I won't be the only one going to the hospital.

Easy now boys!

[SuperArc]

CEP - looks good.

Your results show that farmers and regular backyard welders who use 7018 with no oven on mild steel aren't crazy.

Dave J.

Sadly, this test will only give false hope to farmers and the like. Hydrogen embrittlement affects the steel, yet the steel may not fail for some time. A hydrogen contaminated weld may last for several days, weeks, months or even years. The problem is that a weld which may be expected to last a long time, is now prone to failure maybe 100-1000 times sooner than a non contaminated weld.

The mere external "picture perfect" look of a weld with the naked eye, give absolutely ZERO indication of the microscopic hydrogen caused fractures within the steel itself.

Many people just love to live off of a false sense of security. Hydrogen embrittlement is literally a "cancer" of steel. Many people live for several years before they even knew they had cancer. Then one day, its too late because the person died unexpectedly. Same analogy goes for hydrogen embrittlement that's contaminated a piece of steel, either via welding, electroplating or galvanizing.

[MinnesotaDave]

SuperArc - note that I said mild steel - which is not prone to hydrogen cracking...clearly when welding metals that require LoHi rods, they should be used properly

Dave J.

[Gar]

.

[CEP]

Cep, that wasn't damage control. Listen, DIHYDROGEN OXIDE POISONING? Get it, or is "WATER POISONING" too dificult for you to understand. And somebody grabs me by the throat..... I might not win them all, but I guaranty I won't be the only one going to the hospital.

I've read the threads and article posted about welding over brake cleaner. I just filed it in the back of my mind. But figured it was about the same thing as about 10-years ago that caused a big up roar on all these sites when that blacksmith died from welding galvanize. Paw Paw had other health issues that contributed to his death. Figured this guy was in the same boat, but didn't really know. I've been galvanized poisoned dozens of times, sick as a dog for about 24-hours, then just fine. And I'm still here.

I had no idea what you were taking about, and didn't want to take the time to look it up. Just like the guy says in this article we read so much of this stuff, it kinda goes in one ear and out the other! Sorry I took your post wrong! I centered in on this part of your post. At my age, I'm not real big on being told what to do!

Just stop this crap now!

http://www.brewracingframes.com/id75.htm

[Matt_Maguire]

H2O = water = dihydrogen oxide, it's an old poison joke, and yes one can ingest too much water & really screw yourself up.

I saw the post as informational as to real world at home... Not as an endorsement of practice.

Hydrogen in the weld bead does not make much difference when the material is mild steel. The whole concept of low hydrogen electrodes is to reduce the amount of hydrogen caught in the weld bead of alloy steels that are not as malleable or ductile. As the hydrogen bubbles are squeezed when the metal cools and contracts the pressure eventually matches the yield strength of the metal. At that pount the metal starts to yeild and stretch to accomodate the bubble. In the case of alloy steels with higher strengths and yield points the metal cannot stretch so it cracks. ( underbead cracking). Underbead cracking often is not apparent imediately after the weld has been completed. The cracking, which often is not visible on the surface of the bead, happens hours after the weld has cooled.
So a bend test on mild steel plate with wet rod will not tell you very much. If you were to weld an alloy steel and do a bend test you will not be able to determine if the metal cracked because you exceeded the yield point of the metal ( alloy steels are less ductile) or you had hydrogen trapped causing underbead cracking. An ultrasound done on an alloy steel hours after welding might show you if you have underbead cracking.
Several years ago a little birdie told me that most of Lincoln low hydrogen electrode is sealed so that the flux coating cannot pickup moisture. Baking the rod is good but the rods are already sealed.... maybe an old wives tale.

Pretty much says it all, I would add the the decomp of water & hydrogen uptake also happens when welding on cold parts (below dewpoint) and/or sh!tty gas (usually cheap Co2).

Years ago MG 540 came out with an affordable rod with a well sealed coating (you can really bend the darn things a lot with out it cracking). I would imagine that others have gone to a similar solution.

Matt

[SuperArc]

SuperArc - note that I said mild steel - which is not prone to hydrogen cracking...clearly when welding metals that require LoHi rods, they should be used properly

Dave J.

Whoop!!! My bad Dave! You did in fact say "mild steel" and I completely missed that. You are correct. In the plating business, we tell people all the time that hydrogen relief baking is unnecessary for mild steel.

[MinnesotaDave]

Whoop!!! My bad Dave! You did in fact say "mild steel" and I completely missed that. You are correct. In the plating business, we tell people all the time that hydrogen relief baking is unnecessary for mild steel.

No prob man - figured it was a simple oversight

Dave J.

[Awelderiam]

Well...as an authorized welding inspector for DCP Midstream....if you were to be using "wet" E7018 on any of our projects and were caught....you'd be back at the rig yard kicking rocks.....it might be ok, it might not ever break, it might look awesome, but it aint what the WPS says to use.......No one ever said that the "wet" E7018 wont weld, or wouldnt keep its yield values wet or not.....it all comes down to what it is your welding, and to what governing code or standard. But, the article did what it was intended to.....create conversation. Well done.

[CEP]

but it aint what the WPS says to use.

WPS?!
I'm sure it's around here somewhere, just can't find it right now.

[CEP]

I found it! It must have fell out of my back pocket when I was in the barn cleaning out stalls.
I had to wipe off the cow sheet, but it definitely says to use wet 7018!

[And256]

Do you have a Youtube channel?

[MinnesotaDave]

Do you have a Youtube channel?

This thread is from 2013

[ronsii]

Hard to keep a good thread buried

[And256]

This thread is from 2013

Incorrect! it WAS from 2013

Hard to keep a good thread buried

Brutal truth!
Threads like these must not die.

[whtbaron]

Ok...if we're going to resurrect the dead, I'll throw in my 2 cents. I think the damage done to the rod doesn't just depend on the amount of moisture, but for how long and how much oxygen was involved. I had a package that started to rust on the surface under the flux ( I don't think they were even 7018's, probably 7014 or 6013's) and they were total garbage... couldn't do anything with them but crank up the amps and use them to cut. After all the discussions here about 7018's I finally bought some 7018 AC Hobart rods to use on the buzz boxes and I'm actually getting to like them. I've also picked up some discounted Chinese/repackaged rods from Princess Auto in the past that I didn't mind. In 7014 I had some Power Fist branded ones in the black package that I thought were just as good as the name brand rods I was getting. Of course, the problem with rebranded Chinese products is consistency. I suspect those rods were just repackaged name brand rods, but they went out of stock. Now the cheapy ones are the Power Weld brand in the red boxes, and again I tried them in 7014 and 6013... not for professional welders, but for farm repairs at a lower cost they weren't bad. I went back and got a package of the Power Welds in 7018AC. Total mistake... I hate them. Nothing to do with moisture ( I keep them in sealed containers at low humidity, but no rod oven) but the flux on them is a nightmare. I think it reflows over the end of the rod as it's cooling so startup requires really stabbing them even on clean metal, and it's not just the first time, it's every restart as well. I keep a grinder or belt sander handy to clean up the end and making starting easier, but they are a real pain and I won't be buying them again.

[Ruark]

A-men i coudnt pass ANY any welding certification but have been doing the farm and back yard stuff for 35 years. had pipe line welder give me a large box of 7018 that was soaked in transmission fluid. didnt use it in anything structural but for farm equipment none of it broke period. did catch a shirt sleeve on fire one time because the rod caught on fire

Yeah, I know a guy who does fencing. He welds all of his h-braces from 2 7/8" drill stem, covered with rust and crap, with 1/8" 7018. Never has a problem.

[Yofish]

That anyone has an issue with this WET thing for Billy-Bob welding is beyond me. Hell, I've walked on to a crab boat (more than one!) that needed some repair with the skipper telling me 'We have everything you need'. Which, was a mothy ac-dc machine from the 80's (at best) and a can of WHITE coated 7018 and some WHITE coated 5-P. Everything went fine, no loss of life twenty years afterwards.

[Munkul]

Nice thread resurrection

It's really nice to see a practical test showing the proof of a theory - that being, that low hydrogen isn't super critical on thin (sub 3/4" thick) mild steel.

I think we all could agree that on high strength steel, or thick sections with lots of restraint, that properly "dry" 7018 to a qualified WPS would be the way to go.

[MinnesotaDave]

I think it reflows over the end of the rod as it's cooling so startup requires really stabbing them even on clean metal, and it's not just the first time, it's every restart as well. I keep a grinder or belt sander handy to clean up the end and making starting easier, but they are a real pain and I won't be buying them again.

Most 7018 I use do that on the end. I just scrape them on the file and the end is nice and easy to start again.
Or I scratch them against a corner of the metal and pop that off.

But, if I flick the rod out of the puddle with a little "zip" that little nugget flies out and restart is no problem.