Oxy Fuel

[Skippii]

What's so bad about the Oxy-acetylene torches on ebay?

[quietlikeachurch]

Sorry, my post might have come off as a little bossy...

...but I wouldn't trust anything that doesn't have a good name brand attached to it when welding. Victor compatible does not mean Victor...it just means they happen to use the same sizes (tips, seats, threads). Other than that, i would guess it's poor-quality casting and machining, maybe even the metal isn't as "brassy" as it should be? How else could it be $80? Never used the "Victor compatibles" so I could be waaay off.

Actually, others could provide some major insight, because I bet alot of people are ordering those kits...

BTW, ONE good quality pressure regulator from Victor is around $80.

Of course, Victor themselves have moved some of their manufacturing to Mexico(if not all), and when I got a set of med. duty Cutskill regulators, they said "Assembled in China" on the package and there is no stamping on the bodies that say where they were made!

Perhaps these eBay kits are being stolen off the line at the Victor assembly plant in China before they are stamped.

Try 'em out. I just hope they work and that you don't get blown up...that's all.

-Ian

[Skippii]

Try 'em out. I just hope they work and that you don't get blown up...that's all.

-Ian

Well, I do appreciate that!
Still haven't made my mind up on anything.
I've been doing lots and lots of reading on as many different welding topics as I can, as well as practicing my Stick welding (I still suck). It's fun, though.
I've actually done a lot of research (boring job---probably spent a good 20hrs or so reading about all this. That's how I've actually found some stuff that does fit in my budget---most stuff doesn't.
I'm fully aware that people probably won't "recommend" crap--and I'm glad of it, or this would be a useless forum.
It's just that in my budget, its cheap or nothing.
People told me my 115v $69 stick welder would be awful, too, though. I've found that it works great for the small stuff I need it to do. And when it's something that is actually important to do correctly...I just use my stick welder to tack it all in place so a real shop can do it until I get more skill.

Actually, as I think back, I've had extreme luck so far jerry-rigging things that people said wouldn't work for cheap....one of these days, I'll be proved wrong, but until then, I just have to try everything myself.
Of course, a large part of that I believe is keeping my expectations realistic for what I'm doing.

And by the way, in case anyone was interested....an unfluxed Oxy-Acetylene Aluminum Welding Rod doesn't work in an AC stick welder.

[tapwelder]

I have a Victor knock-off. I think it came out of a Blue-Point welding kit. I felt somewhat obligated to buy it since my lws actually remembered our prior conversation (desire for a smaller American made torch-he missed the American part) and set it back for me a months later. It has welded and cut well. I have a large Meco Weldmaster torch with ever welding tip from sizes 1-14 and 3 cutting tip. The Meco is just too larger and heavy for welding.

I also have a linde w-200. I only recently found tips for it.

The difference between the valves on the linde and the knockoff is significant. The linde valves are extremely precise, still at its old age. The knockoff take force to get gas to stop flowing.

The knockoff came with flashback arrester already attached.

I haven't seen post of folk being blown up by using the knock-offs.

[makoman1860]

I have a Victor knock-off. I think it came out of a Blue-Point welding kit. I felt somewhat obligated to buy it since my lws actually remembered our prior conversation (desire for a smaller American made torch-he missed the American part) and set it back for me a months later. It has welded and cut well. I have a large Meco Weldmaster torch with ever welding tip from sizes 1-14 and 3 cutting tip. The Meco is just too larger and heavy for welding.

I also have a linde w-200. I only recently found tips for it.

The difference between the valves on the linde and the knockoff is significant. The linde valves are extremely precise, still at its old age. The knockoff take force to get gas to stop flowing.

The knockoff came with flashback arrester already attached.

I haven't seen post of folk being blown up by using the knock-offs.

Usually people with no hands left find it difficult to type. Typically the older torches had nicer valves, mixers, and tips. Think about it, they were made at the height of torch useage and technology. Everything after was a cost reduction, or the people that knew HOW to build a torch were gradually replaced with sales and purchasing people as they retired. Victor is a good example of this, they dont even have an engineering staff anymore, so manufacturing and purchasing are left to do whatever they want without a mindful eye on them. Smith still has an engineering staff, and might explain the high design quality of their tools. Harris is in there as well. The last W-200 handle I bought ( now under the prest-o-lite name ) ended up taking 3 tries before getting one where the valves seal. Now im nit picking between new and old domestic made tools, the junk from china isn't even in the same league. Not only are the valves horrible, solder joints questionable, and valve packings leakier then a corvair pushrod tube, but the tips and mixer are so horribly machined the flame quality is just....garbage. Torches are supossed ot be QUIET, no hissing, spitting or anything, just a gentle flame with a long slender outer envelope. Now the larger the tip the louder and harsher the flame becomes, but its within reason. Guys that have torch welded for years are amazed when I hand them a 70 year old tool, and it just acts so nicely and welds the difficult materials so easily when used back to back with a regular cheapo Victor J-100. Ever wonder why some torches like the Meco Aviator, Marquette Aero-Jet, Oxweld W-29 etc. go for so much money on ebay?

[smyrna5]

Must have been you then, my Smith AW1A with a 000 cutting tip, set right, works fantastic on autobody sheet. Most people use too large of a cutting tip, and the wrong technique on sheet.

Makoman. I would like to hear more about the proper technique for cutting sheet, especially for cutting intricate art shapes. I have an old Smith AW1 airline torch and cutting attachment, and a couple of Cobra regulators. I also recently acquired a Dillon (Henrob) Mark III at a garage sale. Thanks.

[makoman1860]

Makoman. I would like to hear more about the proper technique for cutting sheet, especially for cutting intricate art shapes. I have an old Smith AW1 airline torch and cutting attachment, and a couple of Cobra regulators. I also recently acquired a Dillon (Henrob) Mark III at a garage sale. Thanks.

For the dillon, follow the recomendations from Jim at J&S www.cut-like-plasma.com, he seems to know the tool pretty well. For the conventional style cutting torches like the AW1A, you wil find that the following tips may help.

a) get the smallest cutting tip you can
b) thin sheet is often over pre-heated, back off of the pre-heat flames
c) lower the oxygen pressure, about 8 psi works well on the Smith Aw1A with a 000 tip on autobody sheet.
d) as a general technique, run low pre-heats, lower pressures, smaller tips, and keep the cutting tip close ( .25") to the surface. Now this is just for thin steel. Running the flames too low on a larger tip can cause a flashback, so be sure to get a small one.

[gizzardgutz]

I have used Victor torches for more than 30 years. I have never been able to make any other brand perform to Victors standards. Could be it's just me? I'm not an oxy-acetylene welder, altho in a pinch or on real thin steel I will. I don't weld aluminum ar stainless with a torch, there again,I have, but I have much better luck with a Lincoln.
The rule of thumb taught to me back in the late '60's as a helper: acetylene regulator sets at 7 psi., oxygen sets at 10 psi. This was used for cutting steel up to 2' and down to 10, 12 & 16 gauge. To cut the heavier steel preheat the hell out of it and turn the torch up hot. Preheat according to thickness, set the torch so the flame "whips", cut it. Always use a clean tip, clean a used tip before using it. The lower gauges, set the torch accordingly. A roaring flame is not needed. I personally use a # 2 tip for the higher thicknesses, a # 1 tip for 1" to 1/2'", an 0 or 00 for mostly 1/4', and triple 0 for anything smaller. I use a plasma cutter for non-ferrous metals only. If a torch will work this is what I use. When heating with the rosebud, that's when I turn the regulators up.
What I wrote here is not news to most of you. Maybe it will help a Newbie?
The first time my Weldor sent me down to his truck to get his "square" I took the tool boxes apart and didn't find anything square. When he came down and showed me his "square" it wasn't. When I learned the true meaning of square later it made sense.

[gizzardgutz]

Another thing, this photo is some of the torches I bought on Ebay. Combined with shipping I paid $29. for what you see here. Some of what I bought needed fixed, most of it didn't. I have bought probably 12 to 15 Victor torches, and regulators by all the brand names on eBay. Watch the auctions closely, know what your willing to pay and bid accordingly. I sell torches and regulators on a local radio program called "Let's Trade Even" for a modest profit. Nobody's going to get rich doing it, but I can usually sell a working torch, with the regulators for a 1/4 what they want at the Welding Supply. You really need to look at the photos and ask questions of the sellers tho, because I have bought Nitrogen regulators for Acetylene and know your #'s for the torches because a lot of the big torches use the little tip, for Victor. Truth be known, unless your cutting anything larger than 1" steel, the little tips work as well as the journeyman size. They take longer on the preheat, but cut excellently.

[slimneverdies]

Hey guys, I dont know if this has been brought up yet but I was curious about the Lincoln med duty torch set sold at Home Depop. I wanted to buy one just for the regulators that come with them cause if i use my card I can get the entire set with hose, regulators, etc, for $75. What do you think of the quality?

Thanks, Corey

[makoman1860]

Thought you guys might like this. This is a marquette aero-jet that I traded a fellow for, and these are the before and after pictures. New valve stems, knobs, teflon packings, and torch tip adapter made in house. The handle was stripped and re-anodized ( not re-polished however to avoid wrecking the stampings ). The handle was completely disassembled and cleaned, castings straightened, o-rings replaced ( all 6 ) and here is what you get. Not a museum piece but a solid workhorse. Yes the cutting attachment was overhauled too, though I rarely use them.

As to the lincoln medium duty set, if thats the Harris torch im thinking of its a nice set, can you post a link?

[slimneverdies]

http://www.homedepot.com/webapp/wcs/...10000003+90234

Yes its a Harris Torch but I dont know what grade you would consider it. I think its called the cutwelder

[Skippii]

http://www.homedepot.com/webapp/wcs/...10000003+90234

Yes its a Harris Torch but I dont know what grade you would consider it. I think its called the cutwelder

Hey, that's interesting. I'd also like to know if it's really any better than the $100 torches they sell new on eBay. If they actually are any better, I may have just found something in my budget.

[makoman1860]

If my memory serves me that should be a Harris #16 handle, in which case its a pretty nice setup. Just make sure that the parts like the torch handle and regulators are not made in china. The last package I saw at a box store was about 3 years ago. The harris brand parts are typically made in the USA, Italy, or Cz and are of very high quality. They may however have made a cheapo copy in china just for the box stores....so check out the package. If it is a china copy, I would avoid it.

[Skippii]

If my memory serves me that should be a Harris #16 handle, in which case its a pretty nice setup. Just make sure that the parts like the torch handle and regulators are not made in china. The last package I saw at a box store was about 3 years ago. The harris brand parts are typically made in the USA, Italy, or Cz and are of very high quality. They may however have made a cheapo copy in china just for the box stores....so check out the package. If it is a china copy, I would avoid it.

So what you're saying is, if that's made in China, I should save $60 by getting one of the cheap ones from Ebay?

Wait....I completely missed the point everyone so far has made in this thread, haven't I?

Yep, I'm a cheap bastard.

[makoman1860]

So what you're saying is, if that's made in China, I should save $60 by getting one of the cheap ones from Ebay?

Wait....I completely missed the point everyone so far has made in this thread, haven't I?

Yep, I'm a cheap bastard.

Well you might be a dead one too, thats up to you.
' Im only going to say this once more, and please try to take it in the manner its intended. If you are new to this, and are going to be a cheapskate, please find another hobby. To be safe you need to do one of the following,

A) Know what to look for in used equipment, and have the knowledge and skills to overhaul it yourself. Or have it sent in to be checked, however this brings you back to NEW price usually.

B) Spend the money on NEW, QUALITY equipment.

There is no "C" option. This is not a cell phone, cordless drill, kids toy, or some other thing thats just annoying if it fails.....this can be deadly or at least life changing.

[evfreek]

Hi. Some folks asked what was wrong with cheap oxy-acetylene setups. There is a post on www.iforgeiron.com/forum under Welding called "oxygen regulator blowout". From the post, it looks like the overpressure valve failed shut, and the diaphragm blew. There is a followup post from someone who had the same thing happen. I have also heard of creep. If the overpressure valve is non-functional, and you have creep problems, you could soon have hoses whipping around on you.

Be careful out there.

[gizzardgutz]

I have used Victor torches for more than 30 years. I have never been able to make any other brand perform to Victors standards. Could be it's just me? I'm not an oxy-acetylene welder, altho in a pinch or on real thin steel I will. I don't weld aluminum ar stainless with a torch, there again,I have, but I have much better luck with a Lincoln.
The rule of thumb taught to me back in the late '60's as a helper: acetylene regulator sets at 7 psi., oxygen sets at 10 psi. This was used for cutting steel up to 2' and down to 10, 12 & 16 gauge. To cut the heavier steel preheat the hell out of it and turn the torch up hot. Preheat according to thickness, set the torch so the flame "whips", cut it. Always use a clean tip, clean a used tip before using it. The lower gauges, set the torch accordingly. A roaring flame is not needed. I personally use a # 2 tip for the higher thicknesses, a # 1 tip for 1" to 1/2'", an 0 or 00 for mostly 1/4', and triple 0 for anything smaller. I use a plasma cutter for non-ferrous metals only. If a torch will work this is what I use. When heating with the rosebud, that's when I turn the regulators up.
What I wrote here is not news to most of you. Maybe it will help a Newbie?
The first time my Weldor sent me down to his truck to get his "square" I took the tool boxes apart and didn't find anything square. When he came down and showed me his "square" it wasn't. When I learned the true meaning of square later it made sense.

Should read acetylene @ 7 psi & oxygen @ 40 psi, don't know where my head was at, but there wasn' any sun shinin' in there!

[rookie_steve]

Yes, add my vote for a separate Oxy-Fuel forum!

The main reason I decided on an electric welder as my first purchase was due to the fire hazard and higher home-owner insurance costs associated with Oxy-fuel. And somewhere I read that someone and the fire department watched a shop and house burn to the ground because the fire department refused to get close when they found out the oxy-fuel tanks were in the garage. I can't blame them, but it is fact of life I can do without.

But heck ya, I wish I had an oxy-fuel set up though.

Steve

[wesdavidson]

Makoman, WOW that is the best collection I've seen. That pic is my new wallpaper!

MN welder,
I own my tanks (exchange tanks), where I work we own our (names stamped in) tanks.

Some of our tanks we can exchange, we "own" them, but we swap with the supplier when they go empty-quite convenient all of acetylene is thiat way, , but you never get the same tank back. (recently we had a 1914 oxygen tank for a while, boy I wanted to just paint it up and keep it!

Some of our tanks we own and have the collars stamped with the shop name, these we send out and have filled, sometimes they come back in 2 weeks - some we never have see again. recently some were dropped of after about 6 months. -Pays to just kind of glance over the suppliers warehouse stock once in while to see if any of our colors show up. The nice part is we can paint them "our" colors. -they can REALLY dress up a work truck!

Theft got real bad last year, the suppliers did a little audit, seems that a lot of tanks were being stolen, emptied and dumped. We had someone bring in some of our tanks they had picked up at a garage sale! too bad they were such bad shape we had to condemn them (our last 3 stamped acetylene tanks). The suppliers have tightened up a bit on records now.

One thing, acetylene is pretty spendy, To stretch your supply and cut your costs, an acetylene regulator screws right onto a 20 pound propane tank. Propane doesn't weld steel real well but I like it better for welding aluminum and brazing, it has a softer better flame for those jobs. It is also the industry standard for scrapyards and a lot of fab shops for cutting torches and machine cutting torches. It burns fine with normal welding tips, they make 2 piece cutting tips for it. When you need to run a rosebud, propane is a LOT cheaper to heat things for bending or heat treat. We used to have gasses piped in this shop, Oxygen, propane, acetylene, argon, co2, compressed air, so that we could just plug into the closest regulator and work. Kind of like in the "Oxyacetylene handbook" I still have a 4 station oxygas bench set up, we used to have 20 stations... .

[wesdavidson]

Just some follow up.
I just walked around, we are using victor, oxweld, harris, marquette, national cylinder gas (NCG), linde, smith, prestolite, airco, union carbide, Rego and chinese import regulators. Most of ours are NCG. Some are probably 70 years old. Most are 30-50 years old.

We are using or have used Harris, Victor, Smith, Harris copies, Marquette, prestolite, and a few other makes of torches - some in multiple sizes and types. Same age ranges. Our Victor cutting torch is a back lever type and is about 15 years old, works well. the older ones were Smith. The machine cutting torch is a Harris inline, the oxyfuel bench has the small victor J-28 WLD handles -cute, about 6 inches long. They run a smaller hose fitting. We also have a few that use natural gas and compressed air- those run ok on propane.

We have 2 Harris style imports , a generic one off one of those tool truck sales - it isn't anything to brag about -the set cost $80 the regulators are in use around here, they are ok. the handle is marginal but works, the hoses cracked and leaked in about 6 months. , The other is from a local hardware store it works ok. cost about $50 for the handle and cutting attachment.

I have tried a few import torch sets, both generic and sold by name brands. The fit and finish isn't as good, I would prefer a good USA made victor or Harris if I am using it a lot or have to depend on it. Any brand can get leaky when the get old or mistreated, you find out when you are cutting along and you look down and your hand is on fire! The generic import handpieces sometimes leak right out of the box. we had one that the welding tips would fall off, the threads were not even close.

I haven't had a bad import regulator, one important thing is I very seldom if ever adjust a regulator, and NEVER back them off when I turn off the tank. Too many damaged by fidlers. Our biggest problems come when people litterally screw up the regulators by turning the knobs! And don't take one apart to "see how it works" it won't after that. Been there.

Pawn shops and used torches can be ok, of course once you light it up it is used! Big thing is to check for leaks! a leaky handpiece is one thing, a leaky regulator will have to be repaired or replaced. Imports generally are not repairable, as no parts are available. Old name brands are in a similar situation, even tips can be hard or impossable to buy locally for the older ones. Sometimes the old beat up torch will be a real sweet thing, the good ones get used a lot because folks like the feel. Watch out for one that has been used for a hammer though, sometimes they can leak.

You can check out e-bay, sometimes a $200 torch will sell for $20.

We don't worry about matching brands, we will have a NCG and a victor regulator feeding a harris torch.

[Skippii]

Hi. Some folks asked what was wrong with cheap oxy-acetylene setups. There is a post on www.iforgeiron.com/forum under Welding called "oxygen regulator blowout". From the post, it looks like the overpressure valve failed shut, and the diaphragm blew. There is a followup post from someone who had the same thing happen. I have also heard of creep. If the overpressure valve is non-functional, and you have creep problems, you could soon have hoses whipping around on you.

Be careful out there.

$200 for a single regulator is CHEAP?
Here I am asking about $80 torch/regulator kits, and now it seems that anything less than a grand or two will kill you instantly.

[makoman1860]

$200 for a single regulator is CHEAP?
Here I am asking about $80 torch/regulator kits, and now it seems that anything less than a grand or two will kill you instantly.

You asked the question, just be willing to accept the answer. Its like the guys that think they are going to put a junkyard auto engine in an airplane........sometimes reality hurts, and quality just costs.

[Skippii]

You asked the question, just be willing to accept the answer. Its like the guys that think they are going to put a junkyard auto engine in an airplane........sometimes reality hurts, and quality just costs.

Oh, I know, and I appreciate the answers.

I had just hoped there was something in between multi-thousand dollar "quality" and instant firey death suicide.

Does anyone actually know of anyone who's been seriously injured by $100-200 torches? Given the volume sold on ebay, you'd think people all over the country would be dropping like flies.

[wagin]

Me again,
finished browsing this thread and seen you have posted a pic of the small torch I inquired about. Just curious, what would my torch be worth?