Whats wrong with Harbor freight welders?

[tankbuilder]

In my intruductory thread I was told to not get a HF welder but to get a Lincoln or Miller brand welder. Is it true that HF makes bad welders or just someone saying to get the best welder?

[FluxThis]

Unless you like wasting money.. You will be better off getting a used name brand welder, like Miller then wasting your money on some China welder... The China welders don't hold up, they are under powered and over priced..

Besides when it breaks down where will you go for service?? At least with a miller or lincoln you can get parts at any LWS or the internet.. China welders are from China, so the parts are in China.. I was just reading a post here that a guy bought an everlast (china) welder, the cover was damaged, he has been waiting 4 MONTHS to get the new cover..

What if it was something that would stop you from working for 4 MONTHS?? It must be on "the slow boat from china"

Also don't forget the ol saying "you get what you pay for"

[PilotDan]

Tankbuilder,
in your price range, you are going to be looking for a stick welder. Open Circuit Voltage is a big deal.. Those little HF welders don't have much open circuit voltage. This means that it will be very difficult to strike an arc. You'll have a lot of problems with the rod sticking or the arc fizzling out.. Voltage is the push in an electrical circuit. Open circuit voltage is the push that starts your arc. Without enough push, you're not going to get anything started.. Also, as FluxThis said, parts are a consideration. Besides, why pay $100 or so for some piece of junk thats made in china, when you can get a nice used buzz box off of craigslist for cheap. I was just out in the shop playing with my lincoln buzz box and the thing is awesome! We are just trying to keep you from wasting your money. Search craigslist for welders and let me know what you find in your price range. I'll help you find the right one.

[cabletech]

Yup, you can pick up 225A 220VAC stick welders on Craigslist for $50-$150 all day long. I sold my excellent condition Lincoln for $200, including an auto dark (cheap) helmet, and it had maybe 2 hours of use. Can't beat those.

[Backon4]

I agree that you should always get the best you can afford, however I have found a few of the HF welders to be really good machines. I have a Lincoln precision tig 225 that I rarely use, and a HF dual mig 151 I use pretty much weekly. I have never had a problem out of either. It is really a matter of convenience and cost. The consumables for the HF are much cheaper and quicker to use. It welds some very nice welds and for the cost I couldn't complain.

[d94jonca]

i'm a hobby welder and dont rely on my equipment to put food on the table. comming from that angle, here is my take on it.

dollar for dollar, hf welders can be a good value, in particular if you can get them on sale. for example, hf internet store currently sells "refurbished" (they typically show NO sign of usage) dual-151s for about $120 TO YOUR DOOR. i've got one of these units and it worked ok out of the box and even better after some tinkering. on the other hand i saw a blow out sale on menards last week for a similar spec italian made CLARKE unit for $180 + tax. just handling the gun and you can tell its much better quality. if i could do it over again maybe i would have spent the additinal money to get that clarke but i just wouldnt be able to justify spending many times what a hf cost for a miller.

as for replacement parts, you call hfs support and within a week you'll have the part at your door for a very modest price. now, there is no place to drop of a broken hf welder and pick it up working again. if you are unable to diagnose and fix problems yourself, or if you'll loose income unless you have a lender unit during the downtime, obviously a hf unit is not the way to go.

you see a lot of people ripping on hf welders, but most of them seem to base their experience on their brother in laws unit, their neighbor who used to own one or they simply believe that everything from china should be boycotted for political reasons. or maybe they are professionals who use their units 4 hours a day and, from merely looking at hf welders, have correctly concluded that with their usage pattern a hf welder wouldnt last very long. but if you ask all of us who actually have one of these sitting in our garage for the occasional job most will tell you that while they are not millers, they are pretty good for the money.

as for the saying "you get what you pay for", i've generally found that it is sometimes true, but just as often it is simply used to justify premium prices on mediocre generic products with a brand name sticker slapped onto them.

[bmarley5780]

I just got my 80amp arc inverter welder and figuring out that I needed a bigger gauge extension cord to burn them 3/32 rods.....I LOVE IT.....

Not building any skyscrapers, building, bridges, or tanks with it.....just a bbq smoker....It's does the job no complaints and for 90 bucks, I would be pretty stupid to complain.

Also got the plain auto-dark helmet....no complaints there either. 27 bucks from the wallet plus some 5$ rods, already had gloves, grinder and all preping equipment. So 130 to build my own smoker and to have a welder that I can use around the house...

[Charleyhorse]

In my intruductory thread I was told to not get a HF welder but to get a Lincoln or Miller brand welder. Is it true that HF makes bad welders or just someone saying to get the best welder?

I've no experience with HF Mig welders (I own a Clarke 180N). I'm not a pro, just a weekend warrior messing around with old cars and farm equipment. I've put a lot of hours on HF's "top of the line - if you could call it that" - arc welder, currently item number 55911-0VGA. It offers 130 amps max AC and 100 amps max DC, and has thermal protection. I only paid $25.00 for an older and similar HF model called the "ARC 180." I got it on ebay, and then got bitten by the welding bug, I've had welding courses years ago, learning on the Lincoln buzzboxes. For what I paid for it, it's done a great job, having dc is very nice for a beginner. You can really run 3/32 rods all day long with this thing, and it welds very nicely. I pulled the cover and the insides are heavy duty, the transformer is heavy copper wire, not aluminum. There's a big rectifier. Yeah, I upgraded to a Miller Thunderbolt, and I like that machine, but I still use the HF a lot for basic repair stuff, I can hook it up to a big generator and use it away from the shop.

[milwiron]

It's very true a Miller or Lincoln can always be fixed. My very low hours Sycrowave blew a control board, I'm waiting on that $270.00 repair to be delivered, a new board would have cost around $650.00. It's amazing how many people on this forum ask for help about electronic problems with their Millers and Lincolns... but they can be fixed.

While I've been waiting for the repaired Miller board to come back I picked up a HF Dual 151 for 160 bucks from the local HF store. It works fine, especially considering the cost.
Will it last as long as the Miller?... Geez, my Syncro didn't have many hours on it so it couldn't be much worse.

Good luck with whatever you decide.

[Jesse94]

ask anybody that welds for a LIVING about HF welders and they will call them junk, but ask any Hobby welder that welds for fun, then they will tell you they are a great value, Yes you get what you pay for, my 90amp HF welder was 70$ and I love it, best investment i ever made. welds are strong and look nice with very little experience, it does'nt cost a fortune to run it either. my girlfriends dad has a big 'ol miller and it costs him 20 bucks just to turn the thing on, while i can run mine all day for the same price in electricity. I would take mine and build a trailer with it right now with my limited welding experience and it would not scare me one bit to run it down the highway. I'm tired of people bashing HF welders when they are perfectly good pieces of equipment, that is if your not a picky professional that needs the best of the best.

/rant off


Oh ****, didnt notice the date of previous post...sorry..

[tanglediver]

I would take mine and build a trailer with it right now with my limited welding experience and it would not scare me one bit to run it down the highway

Go ahead, let's see what you got.

It can also be done with a Port-a-Torch.

The point, is that the machine poses more challenges to overcome, if it is not up to the level of the work required for adequate results. Don't let the snobbery deter you. We all started somewhere.

[woi2ld]

You'll have a lot of problems with the rod sticking or the arc fizzling out.. Voltage is the push in an electrical circuit.

yah , lots of problems i seen here , just not worth all the problems. nota one. whata rip.

youtube.com/watch?v=Tyuaisi2vvI

[Brad Blazer]

Pilot Dan would be proud.

The Chinese don't even know what a 伏 is!




( 伏 = Chinese for volt)

[California]

I want to know the China Sea Freight, China Freight Forwarders, China Sea Freight to India, Sea rates from China to India, Sea freight from China to India, Shipping from China.

Go away spammer.

[dugndeep]

The ones that put down HF welders are the ones that hate to admit that these 23 dollar welders(that is all I give for mine) will weld just as good as their 2000 dollar welders given the limit on thickness of material.I hardly weld anything over 1/8 inch but if I do I have the lincoln but would not be afraid to do multi passes on 1/4 inch or thicker with the HF.I haven't used the lincoln since I got my HF.I just can't lay down as good a bead with the lincoln as I can with the HF plus the HF is 110 volt where as the lincoln is 220 volt.It was 48 total cost because of the 25 dollar shipping charge.
Let's see what this starts(lol)............doug

[dugndeep]

i'm a hobby welder and dont rely on my equipment to put food on the table. comming from that angle, here is my take on it.

dollar for dollar, hf welders can be a good value, in particular if you can get them on sale. for example, hf internet store currently sells "refurbished" (they typically show NO sign of usage) dual-151s for about $120 TO YOUR DOOR. i've got one of these units and it worked ok out of the box and even better after some tinkering. on the other hand i saw a blow out sale on menards last week for a similar spec italian made CLARKE unit for $180 + tax. just handling the gun and you can tell its much better quality. if i could do it over again maybe i would have spent the additinal money to get that clarke but i just wouldnt be able to justify spending many times what a hf cost for a miller.

as for replacement parts, you call hfs support and within a week you'll have the part at your door for a very modest price. now, there is no place to drop of a broken hf welder and pick it up working again. if you are unable to diagnose and fix problems yourself, or if you'll loose income unless you have a lender unit during the downtime, obviously a hf unit is not the way to go.

you see a lot of people ripping on hf welders, but most of them seem to base their experience on their brother in laws unit, their neighbor who used to own one or they simply believe that everything from china should be boycotted for political reasons. or maybe they are professionals who use their units 4 hours a day and, from merely looking at hf welders, have correctly concluded that with their usage pattern a hf welder wouldnt last very long. but if you ask all of us who actually have one of these sitting in our garage for the occasional job most will tell you that while they are not millers, they are pretty good for the money.

as for the saying "you get what you pay for", i've generally found that it is sometimes true, but just as often it is simply used to justify premium prices on mediocre generic products with a brand name sticker slapped onto them.

So true about premium prices on generic products with brand name sticker

[dugndeep]

I use a millermatic 251 at work,excellent welder but for 2000 dollars it better be,for that price it should have lifetime guarantee not just 5 years

[transit]

I use a millermatic 251 at work,excellent welder but for 2000 dollars it better be,for that price it should have lifetime guarantee not just 5 years

What, no foot massage?

[Sandy]

ask anybody that welds for a LIVING about HF welders and they will call them junk, but ask any Hobby welder that welds for fun, then they will tell you they are a great value, Yes you get what you pay for, my 90amp HF welder was 70$ and I love it, best investment i ever made. welds are strong and look nice with very little experience, it does'nt cost a fortune to run it either. .................................................. .................................................. ...../rant off


Oh ****, didnt notice the date of previous post...sorry..

That's just not true. I weld for fun and as a hobby and I would never say that they (the HF welders) are a great value. I might say that they sure are cheap, and I might say it'll probably do what you expect it to do, but would never say they are a "great value".

Did the cheap price make the yugo a decent vehicle? Nah. Were some folks tickled sheetless with the price? Probably.

[d94jonca]

Did the cheap price make the yugo a decent vehicle? Nah. Were some folks tickled sheetless with the price? Probably.

while we're @ it making analogies with vehicles from the 80ies:

- did the cheap price on those foreign Toyotas make them a good value?

- did the Big Sticker on Detroit production from the same era make them a good value? or were they overpriced POSes that had nothing going for them other than someones UAW brother in law getting Paid Big Time slapping them together?

there is cheap and there is cheap, yugo representing one end of the spectrum and jap cars from the same era the opposite. imo the HF welders fall somewhere in between.

[jonesg]

Sometimes you pay for something you don't get, US union made is going to cost a lot.
Chinese welders are getting a lot better very fast.
I have a small lincoln mig, works great.
I have a chinese ac/dc plasma/stick/tig that works great,
but the Lincoln is better made all around.

Chinese welder parts are available and boards are a LOT cheaper than a miller board.
If an older miller needs parts it might not be worth fixing unless DIY.
So you just have to decide whats best for you.

Guys in the trade know they can't fool around with chinese welders made for consumer level welding.

An AC/DC 220v Lincoln tombstone is a great rig to own.
Its a better buy than any of the chinese stick machines.

[brandonday87]

i have used lincoln vintage 400 and 300. sa 200. classic 300. thes are expensive machines. designed to build anything. harbor freight welders are good for what u pay for them. i bought the tig arc inverter welder with digital display for $130 and the mig 151 for $90 and the arc 180 for $60. i have welded 1/4 steel plate with all three with great results. but their are a few problems. the welders duty cycle for the mig and arc 180 is real low. so u cant weld very long. the arc is hard to start only on the arc 180. had allot of trouble with 7018 sticking. once arc is started its good penetration. amp setting is a little off on the arc 180 . mig machine is very good. nice welds if your having to much build up slow down wire speed or travel a little faster. the tig/arc is the best out of the 3 . i can start an arc very easy . very good penetration. the welder is light. i have not used the tig part yet. duty cycle is 128 amps 100% so it does good. i bought thees off of ebay for a total of $300 for all 3 welders. from a place called empire_liquidators who sell returns i recived all three in great working condition. all together this from harbor freight would have came out to $1000. so shop on ebay if you are not wanting to pay high prices for chiness welders. i have seen people win some of the acutions for $0.99 with $30 shipping for a $200 welder. so check it out first

[bmyers]

In my opinion there are tiers of the chinese welders. Some out there actually will perform as they are designed, and as someone previously stated, with a little "tuning" they will actually do quite well. I am not a professional welder by any stretch, but I am an engineer, and I would personally not spend the money on a HF welder unless it was absolutely all I could afford. I think it's better to spend a little (actually a lot) more and get a decent machine.

I grew up on a farm using Lincoln and Miller welders, but recently went out on a limb and bought an import. I purchased an everlast all-purpose unit that is capable of doing SMAW, GTAW, and has a plasma cutter.

I was EXTREMELY skeptical at first, but after talking to some people I know and speaking with the people there, I decided to give it a try. I must say that so far, it has been a good machine. There are a few small things that give these machines a bad name, some of which are very easy to fix. The stinger and torches could be a little better. The machines often get banged around in shipping, which, I personally think occurs between here and where they are made.

I have been through many, many rods with mine, and done a fair amount of tig as well and had no problems. I also have been impressed with the plasma cutter on the unit. If i made my living by welding, I would probably be using a Lincoln, Miller, or ESAB. For home jobs, this is more than enough.

All that being said.... I would save up $100 or so and just find an old Lincoln 225 on craigslist. Those old machines run forever (one of the ones at home was made in the early years and still works), and can be found for a good price.

[ElectroLight]

Kinda OT, but I just spent some time looking at the Empire Liquidators ebay store and found that their crazy shipping rates inflate the actual cost of a questionable item well above the cost of a new item that is covered under warranty! Why would I buy from them??

[SeanMurphy265]

I have the LV inverter arc welder, I upgraded the cables, new connectors from Airgas, and new stinger and I love it.

I purchased a flux core welder from Tadd Wholesale off ebay for $50.00 shipped. I had it for a couple of weeks and put it back on ebay and made $20.00. I'm not a fan of the flux core only welders and would never buy one again.

I have a millermatic 211autoset that I absolutely love and would not trade it for anything.

I understand it's hard to have a thousand dollar machine sitting there collecting dust because it's used once or twice a month. I use my mig welder daily and use my arc welder a couple of times a week. I will probably invest in a AC/DC arc welder at some point. There is value in purchasing locally if you need help, and that is why I paid a little more for my mig welder.