Converting Miller Auto Invision for standard MIG welding

[Ed.]

Hi All, It can be done, I recently obtained a Miller Auto Invision Power source to use as a base for a heavy duty cycle MIG setup. I got a S-62 wire feeder and took them both down to a welder repair shop, after they checked the circuit diagrams and pulled the case apart, they added a Voltage Pot to the front of the S-62, removed the 21 pin connector from the back of the Auto Invision power source (PS), cut off the end of the 14 pin connector from the end of the cable on the S-62, pushed it through where the 21 pin socket was on the back and rewired it up to where the 21 pin socket was connected to the circuit board near the front panel and 2 hours later I now have a very grunty inverter based 450amp@100% duty cycle mig system which will also go up to about 560amp at 60% should I require it.

This apparently bypasses all the robotic functions so I don't get all the bell and whistles and pulse features of the PS, or any of the jog or purge functions on the front panel.

But I am happy it all works, although I should have gone for the S-74DX feeder.

[canonmetals]

I see what you did here Ed. I was thinking of doing the same as there is a miller invision on ebay for cheap and I am looking for a strong mig machine. How is your conversion working for you? Can I convert my S52E feeder to the auto invision as you have your S62? Are all auto invisions the same? I see mention of "pulse". That is lost in the conversion it seems. What is pulse?

[Ed.]

I see what you did here Ed. I was thinking of doing the same as there is a miller invision on ebay for cheap and I am looking for a strong mig machine. How is your conversion working for you? Can I convert my S52E feeder to the auto invision as you have your S62? Are all auto invisions the same? I see mention of "pulse". That is lost in the conversion it seems. What is pulse?

Hi, This will be a long rant so here goes: my Auto Invision 456 is working fine as a basic welder, it has heaps more amperage then I will ever use, the most amps I have used was I think about 350amps at about 33V? running 1.2mm wire. I used that setting to weld up some 16mm and 20mm plate. If I wanted more amps I would go to 1.6mm wire. It doesn't miss a beat and it only switched on the fan once in the all the time I have had it, I was welding up a big I beam, so heaps of amps and it only did it after about 20 min of welding, otherwise you don't even know it's on. This MIG "idles" at up to 300 amps! Very, very economical on the electricity usage.

There are a few variations of the Auto Invisions, but don't know what the differences are. When you modify the Auto Invision 456 to run the wire feeder, as far as I remember, the workshop that did this for me had to bypass all the advanced functions and the robotics circuitry. So you will lose all the functions such as pulse so they are no longer accessible. However to get the pulse functions before the conversion, you would have also had to get an Optima controller which is an expensive extra. Most of the newer MIGs have it built in and are much easier to setup and program.

Would I do it again, maybe not. Since I got mine I have come across many other and also much newer MIG's that would suit me better, that have more "bells and whistles", such as pulse, programs, burnback controls, synergic functions, etc. but at the time I was on a budget and being in Australia, any large MIG like this and in good condition would have costed me at least twice as much. I probably should have waited a bit longer, (I had my eye on a 400 amp Kemppi before it at auction but it went for double that I wanted to pay for it.) It is as I said before, now a "basic" MIG, the only adjustments I have are the wire speed and the volts. However I have MIG welded with those two adjustments most of my 40 year welding life and for most steel welding it hasn't been a problem.

But really, I do not need a power source that can go up to 560amps at 60% and 450amps @100% duty cycle, in fact most welders wouldn't, unless they are welding 2" plate etc. and not too many welders have a need to do that. Not to mention a hefty 3 phase power supply to run it at full output.

Since you live in the USA, your prices over there are much more reasonable than over here, and you would be able to get a more modern MIG with more features for a good price. But if you have your mind set on on an Miller Invision model, try and get the normal Invision model without the Auto part in the name as the "Auto" part signifies that it is designed as a robotic welder, where as, I think the normal Invision is designed to run a wirefeeder which is manually controlled and wouldn't need conversion. Just plug in an appropriate wire feeder, it still would have the same power as the one I have but without the robotic circuitry you have to bypass. (these are the things you find after you get something)

As for the S52E feeder. I don't know a lot about them but I think it should be able to work with it, contact Steve "7A749", here on this forum, very knowledgeable on Miller feeders as he does a lot of rebuilds and repairs on the Miller wire feeders and he could probably give you much better advice.

As you don't know what "pulse" does, I would guess that you haven't done too much welding and as I don't know what you even intend to weld or your skill set, so please don't take this as a negative criticism as I am not trying to put you down or anything.

But to sum up, I think that the Invision 456's output is overkill (as far as the amp output) for about 85% of most professional welders needs (including my own) unless they are doing big construction, ship building or heavy agricultural/mining equipment. On average, most general welding is between 100 to 250amp unless you are welding heavy plate.

I think that you would be better off with a smaller MIG that can do 200-300 amp output at a good duty cycle, and look for synergic controls and pulse if you want "bells and whistles". Obviously you have 3 phase otherwise you wouldn't be looking at this model. If the cost for the complete Invision setup you have in mind added up to a very affordable price and you would be happy with a basic MIG and have the 3 phase to run it, then go for it. It will do more than you will ever throw at it with out it even straining. If you want a "strong welder" then the Invision would certainly qualify. Just my 2 cents worth.

[canonmetals]

Thanks so much for your comments. To me that's exactly what I needed to hear. Frequently we don't know what we bought or aspire to until it's sitting there in the shop and then it's all too clear.

The Invision I looked at I did not buy. Turns out it was a 575v model which I could not use. It was $400. Cheap! That's why the price was so low (that and the "Auto" reality).

I do sculpture. (www.canonmetals.com) I need 400-400 amps like I need a nuclear weapon. I started with Oxy/acetylene and bought a miller dial arc for tig and stick. I used to have an airco dipstick 160 but it was useless for thicker than 3/16". I've been using an ESAB 352cv which my son bought at auction for $300 with a cart mounted feeder. Wonderful machine. Never fails to do what I need. Lots of heat for what I weld.

I have forty years of experience, but, doing sculpture, I lag behind on terminology and application as the heaviest I've welded is 1/2". I do some repair work for clients and it would be nice to have the capacity to weld hot enough that it's a good weld. I'm known in my town and the welding guru and I know enough to stay out of trouble mostly and not violate peoples perceptions of me.

I bought a CP250TS. It's old but 250 amps at 100% should do what ever I need to tackle. Mostly I use tig and a gas torch. I discovered this forum by googling Invision and there you were. Think I will stick around as there is much to learn from you and the people who hang out here.

Again, thank you for taking the time to respond. Is there a way to know when someone responds? I would not have seen your post had I not visited. No alert was sent.

[Ed.]

Hi Eric, No problem, glad to help out, if you want to know if anyone has responded to your post then have a look at the top right hand corner of the page when you log in, just under your user name and you will see 2 links in little blue text that says " Your Threads" and also "Your Posts", If you click on them, all of your posts and threads will come up and you can see if anyone has responded or not. Another way is, you can ask someone to PM (Personal Message) you and I think you can also suscribe to a thread as well.

If you are still looking for a MIG, my suggestion would be for an inverter type unit. They are considerably smaller, more economical and much lighter than the transformer type, but they are also much more maneuverable because of that fact and they pack a lot of welding power in a small box. The Auto Invision 456 that I have is about 65Kg, I would hate to think how heavy an equivalent amp capacity transformer based MIG would weigh, I I would need a forklift to move it around.

Some welders don't like to buy inverter welders because they worry about the circuit boards burning out, and if one does, then they are expensive, but there are quite a few welder repair companies who will fix up components at board level at a reasonable cost. If it is a reasonable machine and you stick within the duty cycles then the odds are it shouldn't. Technology is improving all the time so hopefully they will get better each new generation. My Invision is at least 10-12 years old and working as new.

I am about to buy one of the Everlast Powerpro 256 TIG ( 4 in 1, AC/DC TIG, MMA, and Plasma cutter) units when they arrive in Australia. They have a 5 year warranty and so long as Everlast are still around to honour that warranty then it will give me peace of mind.
Having said that, even large brand name companies are not immune to disappearing or going under, and some of their parts are also very expensive, so I figure that I am paying less than a third new than a name brand, so if it lasts a few years and does the job then I will still be in front. I especially like the fact that the plasma cutter is a 60 amp unit which should be able to cut up to 20mm in short runs.

I am also buying this all in one TIG to do some "artwork", as I have sort of retired, I am now in a position where I feel I just want to do something for fun. I don't have a O/A setup as you do, so any metal that I cut has do be cut by either band saw, cut-off disk or any other way I can think of to do it, therefore the plasma cutter would be great for doing complex cuts.

This forum will give you lots of ideas to try out for yourself, sometimes, some the guys can get a bit agro and blunt, and you might need "thick skin" if you post up something controversial or something that someone doesn't agree with but most of them are helpful, others you can ignore. Seeing as you have actually been welding for a long time then you are probably used to that anyway.

By the way, I had a look at your web site and so I am eating humble pie, and here I thought and assumed that you might not have welded for long because you didn't know what "pulse" does. I shouldn't have made that assumption and so I am officially apologizing to you, you do great work. You should post up more pictures of your work here on the forum.

Anyway seeing as you are new to this forum and might not have been welcomed yet, let me say. Welcome to the WeldingWeb forum.

[canonmetals]

Thanks so much Ed. You really put out the red carpet. Thank you. I do have thick skin so I'm not too worried about getting blasted. I'm an old dog.
There is a lot still to learn. Before the Invision came along I had no knowledge of inverters at all. Amazing what they can do with such small boxes.
I do like Miller. My dialarc I bought thirty years ago and it never lets me down. It does seem the arc isn't as hot though, but that may be my experience as I weld much hotter than when I started long ago. I'm sure you will agree that after a while you know what the metal will do so you weld almost with eyes closed. When I got it I never went into the upper range. Now I rarely leave the upper range. Most of my welding is heliarc using a foot control.
See you around. Thanks again for writing as you have.
Eric

[Rilniceguy]

Nice work Ed. I have a chance to
Pick up an auto invision for $225.
Do you think it will run on single phase at reduced output?