Page 3 of 3 FirstFirst 123
Results 51 to 66 of 66

Thread: Muriatic Acid

  1. #51
    Join Date
    May 2008
    Posts
    332
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: Muriatic Acid

    This 'know-a-guy-who-knows-a-guy' statements of fact are wearing thin.

    Pump bearing blowing up water and diesel mix? Sounds like someone using the wrong type of pump to me. Otherwise I say pictures or it didn't happen, at least not as simply as you describe.
    We want to see something like this in the signature line:

    Lincoln Ranger 250
    Miller Auto-Darkening Elite Helmet
    Lincoln 100
    Lincoln Mig
    Miller Spectrum 375
    Craftsman 8 galllon gas powered compressor
    Longevity 200amp Tig Welder LT-200D

  2. #52
    Join Date
    Oct 2007
    Location
    East Meadow New York
    Posts
    1,934
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: Muriatic Acid

    We are sure that water does break down into its components.

    As I mentioned the water contaminated paraffins, we are sure that water is breaking down. You could not put that stuff out, for all the money in the world. Burns like oxygen and acetylene, under water.

    Firefighters also found this out. When dealing with certain mixes of Hydrocarbons, if they went to extinguish the flames, with water, the water would mix with the heated chemicals and cause violent explosions.
    Yet you could mist, the area above the chemicals, as long as no water hit the chemicals. This would cool the area. Allow the evaporating chemicals to cool themselves. But it is a dangerous thing to do.

    It is more then just steam. Water breaks down at elevated temperatures in the presence of oil.





    Sincerely,


    William McCormick

  3. #53
    Join Date
    Oct 2007
    Location
    East Meadow New York
    Posts
    1,934
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: Muriatic Acid

    It was my brother actually. Pretty wild accident.

    They were using an old pump, that they did not care about, to remove water contaminated diesel fuel out of an old boat.

    They probably know as I know from HAZMAT that a diaphragm pump or vacuum truck that I used to use and drive, is the safer way.

    But you do not want to run that garbage through your good pumps. There was a lot to pump, so they left the pump to work. Next thing they heard the acetylene tanks going off. And saw what had happened. Personally I doubt if they or many others suspected that accident was possible.

    I have no pictures, I doubt they stopped to take pictures, while they were trying to stop the acetylene tanks from going off.


    The fact that you doubt that, means that you and probably millions of other Americans? Do not know this stuff like the back of their hands.

    Why do you think we use a diaphragm pump, and vacuum trucks, for such things? When an aluminum garbage pump would easily pump them? No friction is the reason. No bearings will be breaking down.

    It is not just the "O" rings breaking down either. We can get Viton "O" rings that will survive the fluids. But you still cannot use that kind of a pump for the reasons I mentioned, friction.

    Sometimes we will use a Viton sealed pump to move organic or hydrocarbon contaminated mostly water fluids. Because there is just not enough hydrocarbon to cause a problem. To much water, to much cooling. But with a lot of oil, and a little water. Look out.

    Sincerely,


    William McCormick

  4. #54
    Join Date
    Sep 2008
    Location
    Louisiana
    Posts
    784
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: Muriatic Acid

    Quote Originally Posted by denrep View Post
    Do compressor tanks with heavy rust in one spot split with sudden rapture-like explosion?
    Or does a rust-weakened tank expand and contract with each compressor cycle, and then, as soon as the weakest rusted area can be breached, air bleeds out signaling the end. Anybody know of a rust-weakened tank that exploded from normal working pressure?

    By the time the splitting void in a failing small reservoir could reach an inch in size, the building-blowing energy potential would be depleted. And we all know that blowing a 1" air hose may be a noisy whipping nuisance, but it's not going to blow the building down.

    I could see in a situation where if somehow the control switch, high limit switch, and high pressure relief valve all failed, and the compressor had the capacity to reach the tanks burst pressure the tank could catastrophically split; but that would be very unlikely scenario.

    With trucks, it's somewhat common for older or neglected air reservoirs to rust out, but I've never heard of one "spliting." One day the air pops through the weakest point and begins to leak out; usually it's a slow leak and next trip to the shop the leak is noticed and the tank is replaced.

    I wonder if a testing facility would even have any standard test data for acceptable expansion of any given air compressor tank? They're each built so different, with welded brackets, mounts, feet etc that it would probably have to be a very expensive custom tailored test. Probably at a cost exceeding the tank's value.

    What about starting with a basic visual inspection for heavy pitting? Maybe with a camera if we want to get fussy. If the tanks shows heavy pitting it's replaced.


    Good Luck
    Sorry for the late post, but at the shop I worked at in before opening my own place I had a small tank fail catastrophically. We ran 3/4 galv pipe from two 10hp compressors into shop. At drops I installed used truck air tanks to act as accumulators and water traps. One morning one of the shop dudes went out to compressors and turned ball valve on then KABOOM! One of the tanks ruptured. It split open, blew about a two foot hole in the sheetrock next to tank. Some shrapnel stuck into 2x6 stud that sheetrock used to cover, and blew several ceiling tiles and pink insulation for about 10 feet. Thankfully no one was in shop yet. No destroyed shop, or blown out windows but some small damage, this was a truck tank (small) I imagine one of the large tanks on the 10hp compressors would cause quite a bit of damage. This is the only air tank failure I had or heard of in my area. The many other tanks I have seen fail was due to small leaks from corosion.
    Peter

  5. #55
    Join Date
    Jun 2008
    Location
    Central California
    Posts
    3,746
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: Muriatic Acid

    Posted by me, earlier:
    Posted by William earlier:
    Real experts dreaded the Manhattan project. They knew we already had planet sterilizing weapons. The Manhattan project was a counterintelligence operation. That was announced afterwards. But most did not want to hear about it.
    England and the United States promised to keep the secret of the atom from the world. Even though that meant total retardation and total paranoia, with subsequent demise of our civilization.

    There was no conspiracy at all, the government openly came out and said that they would treat us like retards. And we have lived up to that title.
    William, could you please translate that for me?
    William, did you miss my question? I'm still waiting. I have personally heard discussions about this subject from Dr. Edward Teller, who seemed to sorta know what he was talking about; here's a bit about him, FWIW:

    From http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Manhattan_Project ('cause it was just handy and sufficient).
    Considering the idea of the fission bomb theoretically settled—at least until more experimental data was available—the conference then turned in a different direction. Hungarian physicist Edward "Ede" Teller pushed for discussion on an even more powerful bomb: the "Super", which would use the explosive force of a detonating fission bomb to ignite a fusion reaction in deuterium and tritium.[21] Such a bomb, they calculcated, would have an explosive yield of 10 megatons, hundreds of times more powerful than the atomic bomb.[22] The concept was based on studies of energy production in stars made by Hans Bethe before the war, and suggested as a possibility to Teller by Enrico Fermi not long before the conference. When the detonation wave from the fission bomb moved through the mixture of deuterium and tritium nuclei, these would fuse together to produce much more energy than fission could. But Bethe was skeptical. As Teller pushed hard for his "superbomb"—now usually referred to as a "hydrogen bomb"—proposing scheme after scheme, Bethe refused each one. The fusion idea had to be put aside in order to concentrate on actually producing fission bombs.

  6. #56
    Join Date
    May 2008
    Posts
    332
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: Muriatic Acid

    Quote Originally Posted by William McCormick Jr View Post
    It was my brother actually. Pretty wild accident.

    They were using an old pump, that they did not care about, to remove water contaminated diesel fuel out of an old boat.

    They probably know as I know from HAZMAT that a diaphragm pump or vacuum truck that I used to use and drive, is the safer way.

    But you do not want to run that garbage through your good pumps. There was a lot to pump, so they left the pump to work. Next thing they heard the acetylene tanks going off. And saw what had happened. Personally I doubt if they or many others suspected that accident was possible.

    I have no pictures, I doubt they stopped to take pictures, while they were trying to stop the acetylene tanks from going off.


    The fact that you doubt that, means that you and probably millions of other Americans? Do not know this stuff like the back of their hands.

    Why do you think we use a diaphragm pump, and vacuum trucks, for such things? When an aluminum garbage pump would easily pump them? No friction is the reason. No bearings will be breaking down.

    It is not just the "O" rings breaking down either. We can get Viton "O" rings that will survive the fluids. But you still cannot use that kind of a pump for the reasons I mentioned, friction.

    Sometimes we will use a Viton sealed pump to move organic or hydrocarbon contaminated mostly water fluids. Because there is just not enough hydrocarbon to cause a problem. To much water, to much cooling. But with a lot of oil, and a little water. Look out.
    Viton O rings for fuels, understood, but that's not what we're dealing with, is it? The real failure would be the elastomers in the mechanical seals, right? The bellows of the rotary seal half would also need to be viton too, as well as the seal for the stationary seat.
    A 'garbage pump' as you call it isn't the correct type of pump for 'water contaminated fuel' at all. Also left it unattended? Mistake on top of a mistake. So it goes back to operator error, not oil and water mix causing a pump to explode.

    A diaphragm pump and vac truck would also have to be grounded to comply with the application of pumping fuels, not just being 'the correct way to do it'. The fact that I doubt it doesn't mean to imply I'm some ignorant 'American', I just have years of experience in pump failures and the transmission of hostile fluids and know there would have to be more to this story than a water / oil mix detonating because it was being pumped. The lack of details being misconstrued into facts and some horror story about the possibility of death made me post my response.


    Fuels with water in it isn't quite the same as what the TS proposed in the first place and we're pretty far from what he was talking about.
    We want to see something like this in the signature line:

    Lincoln Ranger 250
    Miller Auto-Darkening Elite Helmet
    Lincoln 100
    Lincoln Mig
    Miller Spectrum 375
    Craftsman 8 galllon gas powered compressor
    Longevity 200amp Tig Welder LT-200D

  7. #57
    Join Date
    Nov 2009
    Location
    Southern Montana
    Posts
    5
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: Muriatic Acid

    Quote Originally Posted by William McCormick Jr View Post
    Look at the profile of the candle. It causes air to be sucked around the outside edge and into the flame.
    exactly.

    Quote Originally Posted by William McCormick Jr View Post
    That is not the case of the pot.
    just like the candle does, maybe you should check out this thing called convection.

    Quote Originally Posted by William McCormick Jr View Post
    I hope you genuinely posted your information for the sake of knowledge.
    honestly i posted it to dispel your disinformation, to hopefully prevent someone from getting hurt. it surprises me that some one with your broad experience has such little knowledge of fire fighting. although fwiw, it does seem that you have been plagued with many interesting accidents ....

    in case you missed it, here is the part about your cooking fire:

    When oil in a pan is on fire, the natural impulse may be to extinguish it with water. However, doing so will cause the water to become superheated by the hot oil. Upon turning to steam, it will disperse upwards and outwards rapidly and violently in a spray also containing the ignited oil. It is for this reason that the correct course of action for dealing with such fires is to use a damp cloth to help deprive the fire of oxygen as well as serve to cool it down. Alternatively, a non-volatile purpose designed fire retardant agent or simply a fire blanket can be used instead.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Steam_explosion
    then read this paragraph:

    Role of water in fire-fighting
    Water can have 2 different roles: 1- In the case of a solid combustible, the limitation factor is the oxidizer (air) intake, as the fire self-produces sufficient heat ; water chokes the fire by vapor production, which removes fresh air and oxygen; 2- In the case of a mixed atmosphere, we can’t split combustible from oxidizer, the only possible action consisting of cooling down to prevent the spread of flames (water vapor will also dilute the atmosphere). It also exist cases where ignition factor is not the activation energy. For example, smoke explosion is a very violent combustion of unburnt gases contained in the smoke created by a sudden fresh air input (oxidizer input). Interval in which an air/gas mix can burn is limited by the explosivity limits of the air. This interval can be from few per cents (kerosene) till several dozens per cents (acetylene).

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fire_triangle
    misted oil fires do not explode because the misting does not introduce a large amount of water into the fire, hence no steam explosion.

    Water Mists
    Water mists are defined by the U.S. National Fire Protection Association code NFPA 750 as sprays with a Dv99 of 1,000 µm or less, measured at the coarsest part of the spray in a plane 1 m from a nozzle operating at its minimum design pressure. When a water mist is applied, the water droplets evaporate rapidly, drawing heat of vaporization from the fire and surrounding area. Simultaneous cooling and oxygen displacement by the resulting vapor suppresses the flames. The particle size of the water droplets in the mist is a critical parameter as this directly influences the effectiveness of the spray. Smaller droplets have a relatively high specific surface area, resulting in better heat transfer and more rapid vaporization.

    http://www.ien.com/article/developin...d-water/152938
    hth,
    Mike

  8. #58
    Join Date
    Nov 2008
    Posts
    220
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: Muriatic Acid

    Quote Originally Posted by salem747 View Post
    Hello,

    Has anyone used Muriatic acid or Hydrochloric acid to clean out a rusty tank?

    Any thoughts?
    Muriatic and Hydrochloric acid are the same thing.

  9. #59
    Join Date
    Oct 2007
    Location
    East Meadow New York
    Posts
    1,934
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: Muriatic Acid

    If the candle wick held up high so convection can get into the base of the flame, and the pot look alike to you. I will not make any sense to you.

    Convection is at work on the candle, it is not at work on the pot. There is pressure coming out of the pot, not convection currents. That is why if you bothered to watch the hydrocarbon movie, you would have seen that the flame does not turn blue without air added to the mix. It cannot, there is no way oxygen can get into the flame, while you have pressure pushing the hydrocarbon out.

    http://www.rockwelder.com/wmv/hydrocarbonburn.wmv

    Just like the pot is being pressurized by the expanding water, there would be no way air could get into the that stream.

    Try an oxygen and acetylene torch with just acetylene. You can see it up close.

    Until you add oxygen to an oxyacetylene torch there is no blue flame. Unless you throw the flame off the torch with very high pressure. In that case you have convection at work again.
    The candle can draw in oxygen to the base of the flame easily by convection. There is no convection possible when a substance comes out of an orifice under pressure. That is the case with the pot of oil, the acetylene torch just burning acetylene, and the movie I made that is showing the burning of pure acetylene.

    The only way people get hurt is when they have partial understanding of something. I do not let that happen.




    Sincerely,


    William McCormick

  10. #60
    Join Date
    Jun 2008
    Location
    Central California
    Posts
    3,746
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: Muriatic Acid

    The only way people get hurt is when they have partial understanding of something. I do not let that happen.
    Or even worse, when people have a very great misunderstanding of something, as evinced by the erroneous statements you have made here. Comparing chemical fires to Hydrogen Bombs? Talking about water being an oxidizing agent for oil under ordinary, or even slightly un-ordinary conditions? 'Meaning well' is no substitute for real knowledge about a subject; you seem to know a fair amount about welding, but chemistry isn't your strong point and it might be better if you didn't try to explain things you are badly mistaken about. Over the last two or three years, there must have been as many or more threads like this containing comments of yours; might this be the very last one? I'd hope so.

  11. #61
    Join Date
    Oct 2007
    Location
    East Meadow New York
    Posts
    1,934
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: Muriatic Acid

    Oldiron2. I am sure many have great misunderstandings. You must have trouble with the words in my post. I did not state a hydrogen bomb and a chemical fire are the same. So if you want to just confuse things, that may be your style. That may be your way of life. It is not mine.

    Water is 8:1 by weight oxygen. We use water as oxygen in many commercial chemical reactions. Granted high temperatures are involved, hot coals. Sometimes ARC's. Sometimes just instant or fast compression.

    From instantly compressing air, oil and water like in a hydraulic cylinder, by mechanical action, you could create massive amounts of heat and an explosion. It has happened. It is very much like a diesel engine.

    In fact some have built engines with long strokes and large flywheels, that can actually run on water. But they are impractical and can be dangerous, they can even detonate, if small amounts of contaminants get into them.
    So you can hate me, you can confuse what I say. But you will not gain any respect from real Americans. And those are the only individuals I care about.

    Sincerely,


    William McCormick

  12. #62
    Join Date
    Oct 2007
    Location
    East Meadow New York
    Posts
    1,934
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: Muriatic Acid

    Stack of Dimes.

    Diesel fuel alone would not, even if warmed by the very hot pump, turn into a flame thrower. It could light or flash, but the fresh fuel would cool it.

    When you add water to the mix, the water acts like oxygen and you get a napalm like substance.
    That is how they made homemade napalm, using water for oxygen. Without the water the diesel fuel would need a wick to stay lit. With the water it stays lit and burns very hot.

    You can melt metal with fuels that are contaminated with water. Grease traps cannot be put out sometimes, and burn through metal like an oxyacetylene torch. It is the water in with the grease.



    Sincerely,


    William McCormick

  13. #63
    Join Date
    Oct 2007
    Location
    East Meadow New York
    Posts
    1,934
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: Muriatic Acid

    Quote Originally Posted by Oldiron2 View Post
    William, did you miss my question? I'm still waiting. I have personally heard discussions about this subject from Dr. Edward Teller, who seemed to sorta know what he was talking about; here's a bit about him, FWIW:

    From http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Manhattan_Project ('cause it was just handy and sufficient).
    Well the same disingenuous sorts stated that the secret of the atom would not be revealed to citizens. Since my folk already knew about it, this seemed like trouble. In fact it seemed like we lost the war, and some other country had taken over.

    Because we had planet destroying weapons before World War Two. But so did the Germans. They just were not good enough to use them. So it came to a bloody battle field. For political purpose. The purpose of hiding our failed leaders on both sides of the war.

    Do you know why they are getting rid of ammonium nitrate? Making it illegal in many places? Because you can create the Hiroshima blast with 25 pounds of it. Properly detonated and placed in a special oil. The oil liberates some tens of millions of BTU's in a fraction of a second. This was released by the government in the 70's by the freedom of information act. And stated to be the real bomb dropped on Hiroshima. Along with the video of how to make it. It was on government funded Television.

    Also in other countries silos with ammonium nitrate stored in them detonated, and the towns were shaken to their foundations many miles away.

    George Washington only took on the British after we declared our continental United States, was not British property. At that point George Washington knew from the French and Indian War, that no foreign army could conquer a foreign land. Every time a foreign army tries, they end up losing their own country, or end up leaving the defeated country years later, in disgrace.

    That is how George Washington knew in the long run we would win. That was a well known lesson of the British. There really is no way American soldiers could have been ordered off American soil. Not by every lesson of history.

    The Manhattan project, the Argon National Laboratory, Brookhaven Labs. All fraudulent places, practicing counterintelligence, paid for by you and me.


    Sincerely,


    William McCormick

  14. #64
    Join Date
    Jun 2008
    Location
    Central California
    Posts
    3,746
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: Muriatic Acid

    Just posted by William:
    Oldiron2. I am sure many have great misunderstandings. You must have trouble with the words in my post. I did not state a hydrogen bomb and a chemical fire are the same.
    No, you said the hydrogen bomb works on the same principle as a plasma cutter, which is ordinary physics and chemistry, just like a flame; no nuclear decomposition involved. And I quote:

    Posted earlier by William:
    You mention hydrogen it is a funny gas. It used to be used for atomic hydrogen welding. By passing hydrogen through an arc, you can cause a very hot plasma. Just like the addition of a tiny bit of hydrogen to nitrogen in a plasma cutter can allow you to cut many inches of stainless steel. Helium will do that too.

    The hydrogen bomb works upon that principle.
    Do you know why they are getting rid of ammonium nitrate? Making it illegal in many places? Because you can create the Hiroshima blast with 25 pounds of it.
    Because we had planet destroying weapons before World War Two. But so did the Germans.
    Do you really believe that? That doesn't even deserve a rebuttal.
    The Manhattan project, the Argon National Laboratory, Brookhaven Labs. All fraudulent places, practicing counterintelligence, paid for by you and me.
    I suppose you don't think we ever landed anything on the moon, too??

    William, did you get your training to write this thread by working for the CIA?
    So you can hate me, you can confuse what I say. But you will not gain any respect from real Americans.
    If I hated you, I wouldn't have spent the time over the last few years trying to help you understand some of these things as they really are; no, I just feel sorry that you have such deep-seated misconceptions. Ask some of the other 'Real Americans' here what they think; you might be surprised at the answer.

  15. #65
    Join Date
    Oct 2007
    Location
    East Meadow New York
    Posts
    1,934
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: Muriatic Acid

    A plasma like in a plasma arc is not a chemical reaction. It is exciting a substance, until it emits light. Creates an ARC. The power of a plasma created by helium or hydrogen is very powerful. It is not in line with the power input. It is not burning either the hydrogen or the helium, at the time it creates the plasma.

    Plasma torches are not a chemical reaction like burning. I was not in anyway meaning to confuse that, and I did not.

    My father worked on the Lunar module, we went to the moon. But some in government, said that the information that was being learned by the public from the space program. Was contrary to the program that was aimed at keeping us from understanding the atom. Counterintelligence was being compromised, by the space program. So they ended the real space program. Now we have a low orbit program. No longer any means of reaching actual space or the moon with manned craft.

    You were never taught the atom, I understand that. I was. We have no real scientific limitations. Just law makers putting a cap on what we can do.

    Both sides understood how to destroy the planet during World War Two, if they wanted to, before the war started. They probably had thousands or millions of ways to do it. Not just one way. Some of the German chemical reactions were amazing. All sides looked at chemicals in the ocean, that could keep ice from floating, and who would suffer the most. Or if anyone would survive.

    Some people get to paranoid when they hear what man can do rather easily. Tesla had about a million ways to end the earth. Tesla understood how to make a tidal wave or tsunami. With all kinds of different methods.

    What you can do with clouds is amazing. We can charge a cloud and make it emit horrific bolts of lightning.

    If you understand the real atom and how electricity holds the atom in play. You know that it is a simple thing to end the world, an accident will probably end our civilization. Not a war or terrorism.

    Both sides had the knowledge for radio weapons that could effect an army 250 miles away. But each sides own government was more afraid of rabbles or revolutionary sorts taking out their own government, with such equipment.

    I believe you are about to see the same thing happen again.

    Sincerely,


    William McCormick

  16. #66
    Join Date
    Oct 2009
    Location
    Prince George, BC
    Posts
    249
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: Muriatic Acid

    Wow, I hope you guys don't fly this thread into something since it has been so badly hijacked!!!

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  
Page generated in 1,594,290,228.67749 seconds with 13 queries