Blacksmithing tools

[whtbaron]

Looks like we're back in business.... most of the old pics are back... and we kept the "like" button in the process.... cool....

[ronsii]

And the like button even works!!!!

[whtbaron]

YES!... You can tell who did it, and even get the notice.... I like it....

[Lis2323]

But this is Welding Web, not Facebook. It should be a “STFU!!!” button.......

[ronsii]

'Like' that... heh heh heh LOL!!!!

[psacustomcreations]

But this is Welding Web, not Facebook. It should be a “STFU!!!” button.......

While this site was down I joined the Facebook group, "Welding Tips and Tricks".

It has nothing to do with Jody and his site or YouTube page.

Probably 70% of the people commenting on a weld make Bonzoo when he was drunk sound sane and polite.

Sent from my SM-G930V using Tapatalk

[ronsii]

Speaking of bonzoo... I wonder if he'll still stop in now that he retired and moved back to the mainland....

[Lis2323]

Speaking of bonzoo... I wonder if he'll still stop in now that he retired and moved back to the mainland....

He did ??

[ronsii]

He did ??

Everything I saw says he did.... maybe he'll show up just to refute my post

[tapwelder]

I'm looking forward to some forge time soon

hmmm...

[VaughnT]

Of all the things I didn't need right now.... failure of the lining around the burners is probably at the top of the list. Ugh!!

[psacustomcreations]

That sucks.
Are you using Kaowool then something over top of it or just castable refractory?

[VaughnT]

Are you using...

This is a 'Majestic' brand, though it doesn't exactly live up to the name. The insulation is 1" cast stuff that looks and feels like soft fire brick. As bad as it is at insulating, I really don't think I want to bother re-lining this carcass. Of course, that means a lot more work for me, too, so I might have no option but to buy the re-lining kit just to make do until things picks up.

I'm sketching out a smaller version of the forge built by Essential Craftsman on Youtube. I don't need anything that big, but I like the overall look. Making something with a 9x9 chamber shouldn't be too hard. Right?

[whtbaron]

Would you re-use the burners out of the Majestic, or start from scratch? I've been thinking about building a propane forge, so I'm glad to see you're going first.... I was going to make a brake rotor forge first, but decent coal is getting hard to source in these parts. Grandpa's old forge out in the pasture needs a lot of work and I don't see it ever staying in the shop... it just takes up too much space.

[Lis2323]

I was going to make a brake rotor forge first, but decent coal is getting hard to source in these parts. Grandpa's old forge out in the pasture needs a lot of work and I don't see it ever staying in the shop... it just takes up too much space.

You just don’t want to soot up that white interior!!

[VaughnT]

Would you re-use the burners out of the Majestic, or start from scratch?

Neither. The Majestic burners are just plumbing parts cobbled together based on plans you can find for free online. I've always wondered about the efficiency of them, and how much propane I've burned through because of the "efficiency".

For the money, I think you're far better off to buy genuine burners that were designed from the ground up to be burners. If I was a machinist and had a bunch of tools, I would make "proper" burners, but the commercial variants aren't really that expensive.

The JF #1 burner from Thermal Art Design is a good example of what I'm talking about. Stainless Steel construction, all nicely welded and turned, things sized for the job rather than making do with some off-the-shelf parts at the hardware store. And for only a hundred bucks! I bet I've burned through five times that in gas because of the burners on the Majestic.


The Majestic I've been using for years (before they got big on Forged in Fire) has a 16" long chamber, which is stupid long. Nobody needs a 16" chamber on a regular basis, and I've done 99% of my work in the first quarter of the chamber for as long as I can remember. There's a joke in there somewhere, I'm sure.

Anyhow, I'm thinking something like a 9x9 chamber, maybe 5" OAH. Extra height isn't something I need, but I think it would be nice to help get the burner flame up and away from the metal you're forging. I could easily see me forging a dish 2" deep, so too low of a roof on the forge would put the flame of the burner right in the steel, and that could cause problems with excess scaling and the like no matter how careful you are. Plus, there's the question of flame-erosion on the wall of the chamber opposite to the burner.

I'll need to get some graph paper and sharpen my pencil so can start drawing ideas out. 2" of insulation all the way around, large door on one side, with small port for 99% of the work, maybe something like a dog-house design to angle the burners away from the floor.....

Ugh! I really hate this stuff!!

[whtbaron]

You just don’t want to soot up that white interior!!

LOL.... there is that... also being able to breath is a nice option. I did keep one of my barn fans for welding fume ventilation, but the dust from grinding the concrete floor taught me that one single fan isn't that effective at removing airborne contaminants... With either the big forge or the wheel disc version, I think I would have to work out the front door and move the anvil to the doorway.

[whtbaron]

Hmmm.... 99% of your work is in the front quarter, but what about that other 1% when you need more room? Would there be any advantage to having a removable heat barrier in there to reduce the area that needs heating on a regular basis, but would still give you a long oven when you want to make a samurai sword? Maybe a removable door at each end with a 2nd oven (maybe your old one patched) that could be attached when needed.

[VaughnT]

...what about that other 1% when you need more room?

Honestly, I'd be better off just building a forge that heats what I need heated in that case. If I needed to do a bunch of long twists for one project, I can tough it out. If I have a customer come to me with a project that needs more.... I can always buy the twisted stock straight from King's Architectural. Worst case scenario if I think twisting is going to become a large part of what I do, I can build a twisting machine from a pipe threader and do all the twisting cold.

The real problem is that the chamber is narrow. I can fit a blank in there for a 6" dish, but that's as wide as it gets. If I want to do an 8" dish, I'm screwed. If I want to do something that has a large scroll, I'm plum out of luck. Think of how many times you've wanted to do a design.... and it has one dimensions that's over six inches. Even something that has a dog leg in it could be problematic if the chamber width isn't sufficient.

So there's the crux of the situation. Finding that happy medium, that middle ground, is kicking my butt. I could have talked myself into a Chile 2-burner last year, but things were really slow already and I decided to wait. Glad I did, too, since this recent unpleasantness has killed the savings that was earmarked for upgrades around the shop!

The good news is that I ordered some more steel and when I went to pick it up.... I noticed that they had the Silver Streak refills for my new Markal Pro mechanical pencil. Bought one a couple months back, but didn't realize it didn't come with the Silver Streak leads.

Anyhow, the guy at the counter tried to ring it up for me, but couldn't find it in the computer. Pulls one of the pencils down to see if it'll scan.... and nothing.

"I remember when we ordered these for a customer. Had to order a whole carton of the things, but he only wanted a couple of them and these things have been hanging on that peg ever since." he says as he slides the pile across the counter to me. "They aren't in the system, so they don't exist. You're the first person to eyeball them in all this time, so take them with you."

How's that for quality service?

It's always a long process to get my metal even though it's a national chain. Ten minutes to drive there, and then at least thirty minutes to sit at the counter jaw-jacking, swapping stories about whatever comes to mind. Could have been in and out in less than twenty minutes, I'm sure, but I always plan to be gone for an hour because I know how it goes once we get the ball rolling!

[whtbaron]

Nice score.... but you've still got me thinking about that expandable furnace.... now I'm thinking width, height and length.... Add in stacks of firebrick or remove them as needed. Quality of insulation isn't a big issue as long as there's a good refractory coating on the outside wall...maybe an extra burner at the back that only comes on when you use the long version...

[VaughnT]

.... got me thinking about that expandable furnace....

I'm rather in love with the forge built by Essential Craftsman on youtube. It's way too large for anything I'd need any time soon, but you've got to appreciate the design he came up with!



I think making a stand-alone bottom is pretty slick. I can't imagine what I could possibly make that'd require lifting the top up on some bricks, but at least that gets the flame up and away from the workpiece.

Right now, my thinking is to build a dog-house style so the burner comes in at an angle and is as far from the work as possible. Making it a two-piece like EC did would be pretty easy and it'd be nice to have a little shelf area outside of the main port that I work from.



This one could be stitched together using flat bar, something like 1/8"x3 and 1/8"x6. I had thought about hiring the job out to someone with a water jet, but I don't have the dimensions nailed down enough. It would be neat to make it out of sheet metal, all the bend lines perforated by the laser or water jet for easy bending.

[Lis2323]

Honestly, I'd be better off just building a forge that heats what I need heated in that case. If I needed to do a bunch of long twists for one project, I can tough it out. If I have a customer come to me with a project that needs more.... I can always buy the twisted stock straight from King's Architectural. Worst case scenario if I think twisting is going to become a large part of what I do, I can build a twisting machine from a pipe threader and do all the twisting cold.

The real problem is that the chamber is narrow. I can fit a blank in there for a 6" dish, but that's as wide as it gets. If I want to do an 8" dish, I'm screwed. If I want to do something that has a large scroll, I'm plum out of luck. Think of how many times you've wanted to do a design.... and it has one dimensions that's over six inches. Even something that has a dog leg in it could be problematic if the chamber width isn't sufficient.

So there's the crux of the situation. Finding that happy medium, that middle ground, is kicking my butt. I could have talked myself into a Chile 2-burner last year, but things were really slow already and I decided to wait. Glad I did, too, since this recent unpleasantness has killed the savings that was earmarked for upgrades around the shop!

The good news is that I ordered some more steel and when I went to pick it up.... I noticed that they had the Silver Streak refills for my new Markal Pro mechanical pencil. Bought one a couple months back, but didn't realize it didn't come with the Silver Streak leads.

Anyhow, the guy at the counter tried to ring it up for me, but couldn't find it in the computer. Pulls one of the pencils down to see if it'll scan.... and nothing.

"I remember when we ordered these for a customer. Had to order a whole carton of the things, but he only wanted a couple of them and these things have been hanging on that peg ever since." he says as he slides the pile across the counter to me. "They aren't in the system, so they don't exist. You're the first person to eyeball them in all this time, so take them with you."

How's that for quality service?

It's always a long process to get my metal even though it's a national chain. Ten minutes to drive there, and then at least thirty minutes to sit at the counter jaw-jacking, swapping stories about whatever comes to mind. Could have been in and out in less than twenty minutes, I'm sure, but I always plan to be gone for an hour because I know how it goes once we get the ball rolling!

Those Silver Streaks look way more user friendly than mine. I love the way they mark but I always struggle figuring out how to refill them.

[VaughnT]

Those Silver Streaks look way more user friendly than mine. I love the way they mark but I always struggle figuring out how to refill them.

Got an extra one if you need it!

[psacustomcreations]

I bought a pack of the silver streak pencil style markers. They work pretty good but now you have me wondering about your style.

[Lis2323]

Got an extra one if you need it!

Too kind! Would it be out of line for me to suggest offering to Pat?

I would take you up on it but shipping to Canada would take all the fun out of it. I will pick up one of those extended tip PROs locally.