Blacksmithing tools

[psacustomcreations]

Another modification to that type of shear that might help is the miter table this member made. Just a couple of pieces of angle and a miter gauge off an old table saw or small band saw.

[smithdoor]

Looks painful from photo.
Hope going better now.
How is your wife doing after you got home.

Get wel9l soon
Dave

"... or work careful."

We all think we do. I've set up jacks to straighten things 1,000 times... background in auto body remember?... but 1,001.... well, it can come back to bite you, in my case, in the hand. Short story is I was using a 20 ton jack to straighten a piece of bent metal, and the back of a 5020 John Deere was the weight for my press. Within 1/16th of an inch of where I want to be and things go sideways... well, the jack did anyway and it went sideways through the back of my thumb. That in itself should have been a minor inconvenience of going for a few stitches, but it put me into shock. I've raised 3 kids, have 6 grandchildren and I used to raise hogs... castrating, tail docking... let's just say I'm not a guy that faints. In fact, I don't recall ever having passed out sober before.... but I just made it to the house this time. I wasn't feeling good so I left the shop... got to the house and told the wife, "we're going for stitches". I sat in a chair beside the phone and apparently passed out sitting up with my eyes and mouth open, turning a rather unpopular shade of gray. My wife is a retired LPN and she couldn't detect any breathing or heart rate. She made 2 phone calls I didn't hear (still recovering from knee surgery and she was going to need help disposing of the body) and when I did come to, she was giving the ambulance directions. My heart rate, breathing and temperature had all dropped so with protest, I can now stroke ride to the hospital in an ambulance off the bucket list. That happened around 11 a.m. and I was back in the field with the part welded by 4 (with help from my son) so as near death experiences go, it wasn't all that inconvenient, but it was an eye opener.
To complicate things, when I got the stitches out a week later, I managed to split the wound open again and get an infection in it. It's now 3 weeks last Wed. and I've almost got full use of my hand (didn't break any bones) but the scar is still healing. Just another little reminder that life can change in a heartbeat, and what we do every day comes with risk. We all say we're being careful, and we mean it for the most part.... but we all take risks...be careful.
Attachment 1712867

[VaughnT]

Very ingenious modifications. I'll certainly have to keep that in mind. After all the bad reviews I heard about those things, I wrote them off. Never thought about modifying them to take a bottle jack!

[whtbaron]

Looks painful from photo.
Hope going better now.
How is your wife doing after you got home.

Get wel9l soon
Dave

It's over 4 weeks now so it's healed pretty good as far as open wounds are concerned, but I still have to be careful around heat, sunlight or sharp objects... it's still very tender. Wife is doing fine, she's a couple months post op on her knee replacement surgery and getting around much better now.

[whtbaron]

[QUOTE=psacustomcreations;8756263]Vaughn,
Here is an idea I just received as an email from Home Shop Machinist...

The member built a frame for a hydraulic jack and is using that to power the shear. My thought is to get the 12 ton air over hydraulic jack from Harbor Freight and use that in place of the smaller jack. Squeeze the trigger on the air control and be done. I have one of those jacks on my shop press and think I paid $90 or so on sale.



So you like the air over hydraulic from Harbor Freight? I got one on a pipe bender from Princess Auto and it's so slow I just use the manual lever. Typical of the Chinese imports to be inconsistent, so I'm just suggesting try before you buy if you can...

[psacustomcreations]

Les,
I like the 20 ton air over hydraulic jack for my shop press. I think it is faster than manually pumping it. I never timed it though so I could be wrong. Maybe it just eaiser.

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[whtbaron]

No need for a stop watch on this one...it`s slow... very, very slow...

[tapwelder]

Vaughn,
Here is an idea I just received as an email from Home Shop Machinist. You might be able to use this quickly shear the blanks for your flat hooks or round bar.

One member took the typical 12" shear from Northern Tool and turned it into a mini iron worker. If you are not familiar with the shear, it is supposed to be able to shear 1/2" round bar and 1/4" flat bar. Reviews say it is difficult to cut the 1/4" flat bar but that is mostly due to leverage.

The member built a frame for a hydraulic jack and is using that to power the shear. My thought is to get the 12 ton air over hydraulic jack from Harbor Freight and use that in place of the smaller jack. Squeeze the trigger on the air control and be done. I have one of those jacks on my shop press and think I paid $90 or so on sale.

The fabrication of the frame above the shear looks simple enough since there are about as many bolts as there are welds. Instead of flat screw thing on the near side as a hold down, this member did something a bit more elaborate.

Attachment 1713006

Nice.

Perhaps you could mod and HF pipe threaded to pump the handle? Or hydraulic air hammer to beat it?

[smithdoor]

I glad to hear everyone in your family is improving.

Dave

It's over 4 weeks now so it's healed pretty good as far as open wounds are concerned, but I still have to be careful around heat, sunlight or sharp objects... it's still very tender. Wife is doing fine, she's a couple months post op on her knee replacement surgery and getting around much better now.

[whtbaron]

Nice.

Perhaps you could mod and HF pipe threaded to pump the handle? Or hydraulic air hammer to beat it?

If the complaint is lack of leverage, I'm thinking the fastest way might just be to put a longer handle on it....

[tapwelder]

If the complaint is lack of leverage, I'm thinking the fastest way might just be to put a longer handle on it....

Automating it will allow two hand control of the material. A longer handle may make it impossible to hold the material. Especially since 2 hands and body weight will be on the longer handle.

With mine there was always a slight push of the metal causing nonsquare cuts. Of the metal was long enough then the metal could be easily held against the fence.

Automating will also allow easier feed for long cuts and shaping/trim cuts.

Just as well go all out if you gonna mod it....

[psacustomcreations]

Well this idea made me want to try it.
I have the Klutch 12" shear from Northern Tool.
As tapwelder mentioned, there is a tendency to pull the material as it is cut resulting in a cut that is not square.
For my modification this morning I wanted to see if I could rig it up with the 20ton air over hydraulic jack.
I used a piece of 3/4×2 as the top beam. I used 5/16×1 as the connections to the shear.
A bit of work with the mag drill and then cut the pieces to length. Weld out the pivot point and it was done.
The issues are that the rear of the shear lifts as is cuts thicker material. I initially had it bolted to my car lift. That was tearing the plywood platform.
I grabbed this 3/8×8" square tube.
Using this the shear will cut a 1/8×3 flat bar in 12 seconds.
I tried to nip the corner of a piece of 3/16 flat bar and it didnt like that. I didn't like the stresses either and was hiding behind a post.
It actually started to bend the top bar.
Could this work for Vaughn, probably not safely or efficiently.
It satisfied my curiosity though.
First pic is on the 8x8 sq tube.
Second pic is the 1/8×3
Third is the bent top beam.






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[VaughnT]

Wow!

Thank you for taking the trouble to test the design.

At 12 seconds per cut, I don't think it's nearly as fast as the Ellis saw, especially if you were to gang up a couple bars. Only being about to cut 1/8" steel is another bugger as I'm working 3/16" and 1/4".

Looking at it, I get the impression that the geometry is all wrong and that's why the cutter isn't cutting. The antique cutters of that design had no problem nipping through 1/4"x1/2" mild steel, so we can safely say that the idea works and it's just a problem of the Jet/Grizzly/HF tools being improperly set up from the get go. Could be a lot of things, though, and pinpointing where the problem lies would require having a functional antique to take measurements from.

On a tool as big as yours, Pat, I would have expected you to end the day smiling rather than cussing. Nobody'd find fault with your technique, I'm sure.

[psacustomcreations]

Thanks.

I am not upset at all and am pretty happy with the results. Even after making a mistake on the length of the front legs, it didn't take too long and satisfied my curiosity.

I just finished removing the beam and putting the shear back to normal.

It may have been the weld near the pivot point that weakened the beam. It was probably also partly the design.

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[Lis2323]

Wow A little bit of head scratching went into that mechanism Pat. I’m surprised it didn’t perform better!

It may may have been mentioned but what IS the rated capacity of that 12” Klutch? And how long was the OEM handle?

I came across a HUGE manual Alligator shear last year amongst a pile of scrap. It had to be at least 3-400 pounds as the owner and I could barely budge it. I left it behind as there was no way we could lift it into my truck let alone get the truck close enough.

The handle was a slightly curved piece of flat bar 36-40” long 5/8-3/4” thick x 3-4” wide.

[psacustomcreations]

Wow A little bit of head scratching went into that mechanism Pat. I’m surprised it didn’t perform better!

It may may have been mentioned but what IS the rated capacity of that 12” Klutch? And how long was the OEM handle?

I came across a HUGE manual Alligator shear last year amongst a pile of scrap. It had to be at least 3-400 pounds as the owner and I could barely budge it. I left it behind as there was no way we could lift it into my truck let alone get the truck close enough.

The handle was a slightly curved piece of flat bar 36-40” long 5/8-3/4” thick x 3-4” wide.

The handles on these are thin wall tube that is 1x2 and about 2 to 3 feet long.

I think the complaint from that other site was that in cutting thicker material while using the hold down, the handle points back to the rear, making it hard to get leverage. Making a curved handle might correct that angle problem, but does not address the anchoring or hold down and force required.

Here are the specs from the site: Take them with a very large grain of salt.

Super-sharp blades cut up to 1/2in. steel rod and 1/4in. sheet metal
3/8in. thick, solid steel anvil is built in for pounding and shaping
Adjustable hold-down plate offers a secure hold for accurate cuts
Four mounting holes in the base allow the unit to be bolted onto a bench top for extra stability
23 5/8in. rubber-grip handle provides a comfortable, sure grip

Edit: the hole in the side above the "K" in the name is where you are supposed to be able to shear round bar. I never use that and just use large bold cutter so can't speak to that feature.

[psacustomcreations]

Back to the design I used, when there was no material in the jaws, it opened and closed freely by hand. So there was no binding adding to the resistance.

[Lis2323]

Here is a few pics I just took with closeups of the adjustable hold down on my I W shear.


The first pic shows the hold down and the last two show the workpiece “held down”

[psacustomcreations]

In my opinion, the Klutch shear is good for a hobbyist, jeweler, etc that primarily works with 16 guage or thinner.
It cuts that thickness with no problem. The material hold down is just a screw thing you see in my pic. That barely works and only stops the material from tipping up. Additionally, the hold down can not be repositioned forward or back.
There needs to be an infeed table the material can be clamped to. That is a modification that is shown on several sites and one I most likely will do.
I use the shear when I need to trim thin and smaller material and don't want the ragged edge from a bandsaw.

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[Lis2323]

In my opinion, the Klutch shear is good for a hobbyist, jeweler, etc that primarily works with 16 guage or thinner.
It cuts that thickness with no problem. The material hold down is just a screw thing you see in my pic. That barely works and only stops the material from tipping up. Additionally, the hold down can not be repositioned forward or back.
There needs to be an infeed table the material can be clamped to. That is a modification that is shown on several sites and one I most likely will do.
I use the shear when I need to trim thin and smaller material and don't want the ragged edge from a bandsaw.

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Building the base, infeed table and hold down to be integral would most likely be best.

A fence would keep the material square and provide a spot to mount a cut to length gage or stop.

Maybe

[VaughnT]

Makes me wish someone would turn out a small hydraulic/electric shear that doesn't take up a ton of room on the floor. While I like the larger Ironworker's, there are tons of folks that don't need three or four operations in one machine. It's convenient, sure, but it also takes up a lot of real estate, and most folks, I'd say, are only using one of the stations with any kind of regularity.

Even the smallest Piranha is a lot bigger than I'd need. Gotta love the construction of those things!

I'll have to keep my eyes out for an old alligator shear and hope that I find one for less than a king's ransom!

[Lis2323]

I'll have to keep my eyes out for an old alligator shear and hope that I find one for less than a king's ransom!

That’s the same type of shear I came across last year. Only it was WAY bigger and buried in amongst a “lifetime of scrap pile”.




I doubt even a big guy like Vaughn helping me would be able to lift it.

[psacustomcreations]

Makes me wish someone would turn out a small hydraulic/electric shear that doesn't take up a ton of room on the floor. While I like the larger Ironworker's, there are tons of folks that don't need three or four operations in one machine. It's convenient, sure, but it also takes up a lot of real estate, and most folks, I'd say, are only using one of the stations with any kind of regularity.

Even the smallest Piranha is a lot bigger than I'd need. Gotta love the construction of those things!

I'll have to keep my eyes out for an old alligator shear and hope that I find one for less than a king's ransom!

When you look at the geometry of this and leverage involved, you can see how it has so much more capacity for shearing than the one I have. Add in the sheer size/thickness of the casting and it is a winning design.

[psacustomcreations]

Well looky here. I was just on Craigslist and found this one near Washington DC. They want $160 for it.

Think its worth it?

[Lis2323]

Well looky here. I was just on Craigslist and found this one near Washington DC. They want $160 for it.

Think its worth it?

Pat that is just like the one I mentioned. Make certain they have the slip in handle for it.