Blacksmithing tools

[whtbaron]

Well... start stockpiling your metal now. I had $2k worth in my pickup today and it was a little shocking. I was still buying old stock and avoiding the oncoming price increases. Think I'll be stockpiling cultivator shovels next.

[ronsii]

Well... start stockpiling your metal now. I had $2k worth in my pickup today and it was a little shocking. I was still buying old stock and avoiding the oncoming price increases. Think I'll be stockpiling cultivator shovels next.

You might want to stock up on red fuel for your new loader also.... as it will soon be getting more 'valuable'

[VaughnT]

Anyone know what the advantages are for the purchased burners, v.s. the Frosty style home made ones? I'm assuming more efficient for gas use, but do they produce any more heat? I don't see air injection in most of these home made forges... where would you work that in? And why is the sky blue?

The forced-air or blown burners are more fuel efficient and get hotter faster. They are also a lot easier to make since they are quite literally made from COTS parts you can find at any plumbing supply store. The downside, and the reason most people don't go with them, is that they require a fan and electricity to operate. No power, no forge. Power goes out for any reason, and you risk the fire backtracking up the pipework to your fuel inlet and tank. Plus you have to remember to always turn off the gas before you turn off the fan when you're done for the day, otherwise you risk the gas line and tank blowing up. That's the old wive's tale, anyway.

The Venturi is the "standard" because it can be made from plumbing parts and people get a kick out of saying that they did it themselves. Not requiring the added expense of the fan, or electricity, makes it a nice option. The downside is that you are relying 100% on the pressure in your tank for the venturi effect that draws the air in to mix with the gas in the burner tube.

These are a lot more inefficient, though I wonder if anyone has really quantified the difference between the two. Just looking at them side-by-side, I can say that the forced air burners are obviously going to mix the fuel more efficiently and provide plenty of atmosphere to burn all of the propane available. With a venturi design, you can't really say that.

If you can't make this.... you really need to sell off all your tools!


This one gives a little more detail on the thinking behind using a forced-air design, and his is a little more complicated. Still.... not hard to cobble together!

I'm going to copy this forge design with a couple of my own add on's... I can weld a nipple on for the push button assembly, but at this point I'm not sure about how to safely mount the starter-end next to the burner. at this time I'm planning to buy a burner and parts from Chile forge for around $450 to the house, but when it comes time to write the check, I'll more than likely buy one on Amazon that comes with a regulator, hose and all the fittings.

Buying a burner and parts from Chile for $450? That's just plain crazy money! Those piezo electric starters are nice, and I wouldn't mind having one. The JF1 burner I bought is pennies compared to what Chile is asking! I'd love to know what the Chile burner does for that kinda cash.

http://hybridburners.com/forge-comments.html#tate
Tate Roth wrote:

"Rex,
Luckily I found some time to try her out. Having owned a couple of 0.75" T-Rex burners from you I was expecting a big improvement over the standard burner in my Chile forge Tabasco 2 forge. The 1" Forge & Foundry burner delivered in spades!"

I've been thinking about getting one of Rex's burners. Stellar reputation and engineered from the ground up to be a burner. That little 3/8" jobbie looks like it would be a very handy aid for when I want to spot-heat for riveting and the like.



It's a tiny little thing, but I like the idea of just being able to plug it in to my 100# tank and spot heating something in the vise. It's either than or get my O/A rig converted over to Propane.... but that would mean I'd have to lug an empty O2 tank down to get filled. One more expense and hassle for something that I really don't do much of. Maybe the O2 tank would last me for years, but eventually I'd have to truck it down to the National Gas place.

I'd have to talk to them about it, though. I don't know if I believe that little burner would be better than your average hardware store bottle torch running MAPP gas. I find it really hard to believe it'd be economical, getting as hot as fast as O/A does. Sure, it would eventually warm up a small bar so you could peen it over, but will it do it in a timely fashion or are you going to be standing there for an hour, losing your heat every time there's a breeze?

[whtbaron]

Oh, markets go up and down well beyond the reaches of American politics. Fuel has been slowly rebounding from last springs lows that happened when the economy basically shut down. Up here farm fuels are purple, not red.... we're just more colorful that way.... check out our currency! I usually fill the tanks for year end so I won't likely need more fuel until we get into spring seeding. Right now the steel scares me more, because once parts get marked up, they seldom go back down. Expendables like cultivator shovels have been trending up anyway, so I'm not looking forward to more drastic increases. Occasional parts have been getting stupid expensive regardless of paint colors. I just had a set of IHC hydraulic cylinders rebuilt that cost me another $2k. Getting the parts has also been an issue... one set of seals is back ordered for 4 to 5 mths. Not sure how that's going to fly in the middle of seeding or harvest. The idea of building my own forge, retiring to my shop and renting most of the land out is looking better all the time... but the grain prices right now look soooo good...

[Meltedmetal]

The idea of building my own forge, retiring to my shop and renting most of the land out is looking better all the time... but the grain prices right now look soooo good...

On the other hand that is also when the change is easiest to sell.

[VaughnT]

VaughnT, is this the burner you run?

Basically the same. Mine's an "older" model that has the bolt flange on it, but other than that...

It was a toss-up between the JF#1 burner and a T-Rex burner. I ended up going with the JF#1 only because of that mounting flange and my next burner will likely be a T-Rex or two. Nothing wrong with the JF#1 that I can see, but his website annoys me. I don't know why Jim's not building it up and making it better, but it's one of those little things that just irks me.

http://hybridburners.com/products.html

Gotta admit that I like how the T-Rex burners come to you already painted and with a replaceable stainless steel flare.



Of course, if I run across a decent blower, my next burner will be a forced-air design. Looking at blower costs, though, I'll have to find one on the used market to make that happen.

High Temp Tools sells a complete kit and a fully-assembled model, but their website sucks. Still, for the money, that isn't too bad if you already have the fan to plug into it.

http://hightemptools.com/burners.html

At $65 for the kit, I think I could spend that just driving around to get all the parts because you just know for sure that I'm not lucky enough to get everything at one store!!

Not sure I'd paint mine red or not. It is kinda sexy and industrial, but.... haze grey would have to rule the day, I think. Maybe. That red is sexy.

[Meltedmetal]

A company near me that was recovering silver form x-ray film was using vacuum cleaners for blowers. It worked but it was noisy and the cheap shop vacs are only rated for about 300 hours. Doesn't look too professional but the owner was a crook and he made money with it.

[VaughnT]

I've seen folks try all sorts of things to get off cheap. Even a hair dryer will work for awhile if you pull out the heating element.

In the long run, though, seems like you're always better off to shell out the money for good equipment if you don't want to be constantly chasing gremlins in the system.

[psacustomcreations]

Back to the Twisting Wrench idea, there's a fellow on Ebay who puts up a nice version for sale every now and then. I've mentioned them before but managed to snag a couple of pictures this time around....


Attachment 1722979


I've seen a lot of folks use F-wrenches for Twisting Wrenches, but this is the first time I've ever seen anyone make what I think is both a functional and attractive variant. I'll have to keep my eyes open for a wrecked wrench so I can cut the handle off....

Time to revisit this idea.
I was cleaning the shop today and found this wood handle screw driver that made me think of this idea. This seems like a quick and decent looking way to add a handle
It is right in between the sizes of the two wrenches I bought recently.



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[Shootr]

OK, try not to laugh too hard...but got a wild hare to try and build a mini-forge.

Spent a day or two staring at my scrap pile and eventually decided on a few pieces I thought would work. The main "body" is a pair of square tube holders that were originally destined to hold a conveyor belt scraper blade in a mine. (Only the middle weld is mine - I ground each end to make a v-groove and used .030/c25 to join them together).



Another piece of the scraper blade holder was welded to the bottom of the assembly to raise it up a bit. It looked cast, so I crossed my fingers, preheated the heck out of it, and mig'd it together.



Next I drilled and welded on a pipe fitting for the Bernzomatic torch to go in. I tried to angle it slightly up and back.





I welded some brackets on the back end so a piece of the lightweight fire brick I intend to use can cap the end of the chamber, but be slid out if I want to heat a longer piece in the center.



Seems like it will be plenty big enough for the little stuff I want to try. Railroad spike is probably the biggest thing I'd ever try at this early stage. I have (4) of the 9" x 4.5" x 2.5" lightweight fire blocks coming. I plan to cut two of them in half, drill a 2-1/4" hole through them, and insert into the shell making a 6" long x 2-1/4" overall chamber. I'll trim another block to be the end cap that will slide down into the brackets.

I tried to research as much as possible. Worse comes to worse, I'm into the firebrick for $30 - the rest was scrap and time.

[psacustomcreations]

OK, try not to laugh too hard...but got a wild hare to try and build a mini-forge.

I will let the others comment on your forge. I want to know how this flap disc arrangement is working out. I think it is a smart idea for a quick deburring. The speed is considerably slower than the disc is made to run so wonder at how well it does.

[Shootr]

The flapper disc is really handy there. I cleaned and beveled the pipe with it - worked great. It's nice for cleaning up small parts so I don't notice an issue with the rpm's.

[VaughnT]

Time to revisit this idea.
I was cleaning the shop today and found this wood handle screw driver that made me think of this idea. This seems like a quick and decent looking way to add a handle
It is right in between the sizes of the two wrenches I bought recently.

Well, I've been hunting hard to get a set of those screwdrivers, so my vote ain't gonna be in favor of chopping it up.

I've seen screwdrivers with wood handles and round shanks, and square shanks inline with the handle plane, but never something on the diamond like that. I'd dearly love to have a full set of screwdrivers like that!

That said, I think it best matches the smaller wrench.

Of course, if we're look at two wrenches, both of which need to be heated and straightened, why not cut the one up and use it's handle on the other wrench? They're not identical, but they're dang close and it'd look sexy. And if anyone asks, you can tell them the handles are different because one's for the left hand and the other's for the right hand.

OK, try not to laugh too hard...but got a wild hare to try and build a mini-forge.

Next I drilled and welded on a pipe fitting for the Bernzomatic torch to go in. I tried to angle it slightly up and back.

Seems like it will be plenty big enough for the little stuff I want to try. Railroad spike is probably the biggest thing I'd ever try at this early stage. I have (4) of the 9" x 4.5" x 2.5" lightweight fire blocks coming. I plan to cut two of them in half, drill a 2-1/4" hole through them, and insert into the shell making a 6" long x 2-1/4" overall chamber. I'll trim another block to be the end cap that will slide down into the brackets.

I tried to research as much as possible. Worse comes to worse, I'm into the firebrick for $30 - the rest was scrap and time.

Looks great! Some might say it's "overbuilt", but they're not to be listened to. For using what scrap you had on hand, I think it's fantastic and has a very cool look.

Small? Sure, but it'd be big enough to do 70% of what I make regularly. Even if you ever want to do bigger things and need a bigger forge, having a small forge on hand for some things is a great option.

The benzomatic torches don't get very hot. No idea why, but expect to burn through a lot of those little tanks. Somewhere out there I remember seeing an adapter for the torch head so you could attach them straight to hose and run them off of a larger tank, but... lost track of it ages ago.

Consider upgrading to a small T-Rex burner designed for something like that. Their 1/2" or 3/8" model would really rock in your small forge.

And keep the faith. You're not out any money. That benzomatic will get you plenty of heat for tinkering in the short term, and once the bug is well and truly set in you... you will find yourself building a bigger forge. That cutie will always have a special place in your shop and come in handy for all sorts of things!

[ronsii]

Less than 25 bux gets you one of these.. just use the small nozzle and you be several times better than the little torch you got there

https://www.ebay.com/itm/Portable-Pr...wAAOSwkJJfDAPz

[VaughnT]

Ooh, never seen one that has changeable nozzles. I tried one of the larger versions just to see how it would work. Didn't much care for it, but I also don't know if there was something you could have done to make it better - like increasing the size of the air intake holes.

Certainly no worse than a standard torch, though, since you can at least run it from a big tank and not have to worry about running out of gas just as you get to forging temps!

[Shootr]

Somewhere out there I remember seeing an adapter for the torch head so you could attach them straight to hose and run them off of a larger tank, but... lost track of it ages ago.

I know of those hoses - all the camp and BBQ places sell them to adapt 20lb bottles to portable grills and stoves that typically use the green 1lb bottles.

The firebrick arrived today so when I get the energy I'm going to go work with it.

[ronsii]

Ooh, never seen one that has changeable nozzles. I tried one of the larger versions just to see how it would work. Didn't much care for it, but I also don't know if there was something you could have done to make it better - like increasing the size of the air intake holes.

Certainly no worse than a standard torch, though, since you can at least run it from a big tank and not have to worry about running out of gas just as you get to forging temps!

Yeah, I just got some of them in stock for a different project am going to try out the smaller nozzle ones in an enclosed area to see how it get affected compared to the bigger weed burner ones that really get knocked down without extra airflow.

[whtbaron]

I thought the reason all the different versions of the Frosty style home made burners gained popularity on the net was because the weed burners didn't work. I know any time I've tried to use a big one to melt culverts it didn't work. The minute you submerge the head into an area it can't draw in fresh air, the flame goes out. Seems to me if you have to buy the adapter hose anyway, the home made ones would be cheaper than buying another weed burner that might not work well.

[Shootr]

Wasted a brick figuring out the best way to fit it into the shell, but I got the hang of it and I think it came out pretty good.


First light!


Used a loose block to cover most of the front opening


3 minutes on high - looks promising.

[VaughnT]

That is fantastic!

I've seen a lot of people make those "two brick" forges, but yours is the best yet. I love the lines of the casing, giving that beefy industrial look in a way that's genuine.

[cwby]

We used to make air burners all the time. 12 inches of 1/4" pipe with a grease zerk in the end. Just touch the end of the grease zerk to a grinding wheel to remove the ball & spring. Center 1/4" pipe in a 2" pipe & adjust it in or out to adjust the propane flame. Once it is adjusted tack the 1/4" pipe in place.

Might work for a forge. Sure works good for a preheat torch.

[Lis2323]

Wasted a brick figuring out the best way to fit it into the shell, but I got the hang of it and I think it came out pretty good.


First light!


Used a loose block to cover most of the front opening


3 minutes on high - looks promising.

The forge design looks awesome, Shootr!. Well done. !!

Looking forward to see if it needs any tweaking to make you happy.


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[whtbaron]

With the first post I couldn't figure out why you were putting a chimney on it.... now I see it's a stand. Duh! Looks great! Where did you source your brick from?

[VaughnT]

If you were to build a new stand for your LP forge, what height would you make the center of the forge in relation to your height, where you don't have to bend over to see inside the forge,or more importantly having the opening where it's easiest to grab the hot steel and move it to the anvil, is there a rule of thumb of some kind? Like how high a anvil should mounted to it's stand in relation to ones arms while hanging straight down. Thanks

I've always found the "no bending over" rule makes the forge just a little too high for things. Figure, my forge sits on top of 3 layers of fire brick (made into piers) that sits on top of 2" of metal tread, that sits on top of a workbench. If it isn't 4' to the chamber floor, it's really close. Gotta bend over a bit to see inside the forge, bu it's not bad.

What's really ungainly is your work support stands for holding up the ends of anything over a couple inches long. Making a dinner triangle bell, for example, requires 30" of bar and you have to leave 20" sticking out while you warm up the first bend. No way to do that if you don't have a stand tall enough to help out!

[Lis2323]

tackit here is a pic of what I made for my propane forge. It is a horizontal 2" receiver with telescopic work rest for "long" material.




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