why bother with 7018 if yuu cannot keep in oven.

[Dantheharleyman99]

I just welded a forge together made from 1/2" plate. I use over 100 7018 rods that have been setting for over 10 years open in a tin can. They were spotty with moisture build up.
Threw them in front of the thunderbolt and burned the daylights out of them, no preheat, no baking just burned them as they were at about 120-130 amps. They laid down just fine! With the occasional pop or backfire, but nothing that can't be controlled.

All the welds are in my "BACK TO THE BASICS" thread.

In the end it's all just melted metal. Some times you just gotta work a bit harder at it!

[blackbart]

Here's a chart that may help.

Attachment 837321

To make it even more fun and confusing, there is a "triple point" where water will freeze and boil at the same time under the right amount of vacuum. Sorry it has nothing to do with this thread, just cool trivia.

[DeuceTrinal]

Buy a used/broken mini fridge. They are super plentiful used when the college school year ends. You can get a nice small one to make into a kiln with a light bulb.

[Matt_Maguire]

You bother with the 7018 because it welds good, even if it's not to a code. When you work to a code (rule), then you do it - for a reason (cross the t's & dot the i's). When you worry about hydrogen cracking or hydrogen assisted cracking then you tidy things up & do it right.

For a prospective, it's a sh!t ton easier to weld well with 7018 than 70 or 8010... The latter two can play pretty well oxides & all, it just takes a good practiced hand to do it. (uh, but not me)

Matt

[drujinin]

Amazing how much Welding was done in Garages, Barns and Backyards in the 40's, 50's and 60's without the average Joe worrying about was his Rod dry?
I think people tend to read stuff on the Internet, then suffer Technology overload believing everything is True that the World will crumble at his feet if He doesn't do this or that!

[jughead]

i am not a welder or even what is it called " a stick burner" but i have been using 7018 and some of it is 20 years old. and in my 40 years of trying to learn can count the cracked welds that i know of on one hand. i also have several pounds of it that is in sealed containers. i use it on stress points on heavy equipment and can tell a huge difference in ease of using. lucky i guess because no company in its right mind would hire me as a welder. but old country boy red-necks usually get it done and make things work

[docwelder]

jughead; there's a lot to say for the 'git 'er done method. 7018 (cold or hot) is my go to rod when 6010 just ain't enough.

[Insaneride]

To make it even more fun and confusing, there is a "triple point" where water will freeze and boil at the same time under the right amount of vacuum. Sorry it has nothing to do with this thread, just cool trivia.

Thanks Bart about the triple point. That chart confused me also. Ive witnessed basketball sized ice balls coming out of a vacuum next to cherry red metal. Weirdest thing I think I ever saw.

The 29 inches of merc is not much of a vac and water doesnt work to good in a vac. You need heat or a getter to dry moisture out to reach a high vac. Vac pumps dont like water. Usually hi vac uses ROOTS blowers for roughing and then diffusion and or turbo molecular pumps for hi vac. IMHO, your 29 inches of vac should keep your 7018 dry but I think they should be new dry rods before you seel them.

[Oldendum]

Could 7018 that was exposed to humidity be any higher in Hydrogen than, say, a cellulosic rod like 6010?

[MinnesotaDave]

Could 7018 that was exposed to humidity be any higher in Hydrogen than, say, a cellulosic rod like 6010?

You may find this comparison interesting

[blackbart]

Thanks Bart about the triple point. That chart confused me also. Ive witnessed basketball sized ice balls coming out of a vacuum next to cherry red metal. Weirdest thing I think I ever saw.

The 29 inches of merc is not much of a vac and water doesnt work to good in a vac. You need heat or a getter to dry moisture out to reach a high vac. Vac pumps dont like water. Usually hi vac uses ROOTS blowers for roughing and then diffusion and or turbo molecular pumps for hi vac. IMHO, your 29 inches of vac should keep your 7018 dry but I think they should be new dry rods before you seel them.

I was only able to duplicate it at a the exploratorium, a science museum, I was never able to do it myself even with a commercial AC pump. I do think if you started out dry, you could vacuum seal leftover rods to keep them factory fresh, but I have no data to back it up. That way you could store rods indefinitely without the electrical expense. Just a theory.

[Reverser]

You may find this comparison interesting

Very interesting, Dave.
So, then I guess I would be correct by saying that 7014 or 7024 would be more susceptible than 7018 or non-rutile rods, at absorbing hydrogen?

[Charliekilo]

Very interesting. I am wondering if this has something to do with the weld problems on the new SF bay bridge.

[nadogail]

How much heat do you get from a 100 Watt bulb?

Enough to bake cookies or a cake, that's how much.

[DXN1EL]

[Oldendum]

How much heat do you get from a 100 Watt bulb?

Enough to bake cookies or a cake, that's how much.

When I was a kid, they used to sell the "Easy Bake Oven" to kids. It had a light bulb in it. Hopefully not a 100 Watt. I wonder how many fires were started with those.

[Insaneride]

Hydrogen can also come from hydrocarbons like grease and I think paint. LINCOLN_electric had a video about the importance of clean metal for 7018. I dont remember if he used rod from an oven but he also said rust could cause hydrogen and of course it needs to be removed for 7018. I dont believe rust has hydrogen . IMO, when water comes in contact with iron, the hydrogen is released from H two oh and the oxygen oxidizes the iron and makes red rust. Similar, when hydrogen is needed in small amounts, a zinc catalyst is used and hydrogen is generated. The metals used in catalytic converters can also be used to generate hydrogen.

I have a rod oven but it rarely gets turned on. It uses 6.5amps at 120v and heats up to around 280*F. I dont do any code work and my 7018 stays dry. It does seem to run better from the oven. The difference is like spreading warm butter compared to cold margarine.

[blackbart]

When I was experimented with vacuum ideas a couple years ago, I tried a vacuum food sealer as well. The pump on those only pull 5" or so. After several months it seemed like some air seeped in, although it was the most convenient. My opinion was a valve on heavy duty rod guard container was better. You would have to release vacuum to open the lid. A PVC container would hold a full vacuum also. A vac pump was best, although a vacuum hose pulled off an engine manifold pulls a decent vacuum especially on deceleration. I was using new dry rods under ideal conditions however I have no way to measure results, it is all my opinion.

[gxbxc]

When I was a kid, they used to sell the "Easy Bake Oven" to kids. It had a light bulb in it. Hopefully not a 100 Watt. I wonder how many fires were started with those.

But think of all the burned fingers ,and a whole new generation of girls learning about welding gloves ,I mean oven mitts and pot holders .
gxbxc

[cope]

Amazing how much Welding was done in Garages, Barns and Backyards in the 40's, 50's and 60's without the average Joe worrying about was his Rod dry?
I think people tend to read stuff on the Internet, then suffer Technology overload believing everything is True that the World will crumble at his feet if He doesn't do this or that!

I doubt that most of those user had 7018. 7013/7014/6011 were more likely the rod available.

[Tat2dHandz]

Nice oven CEP. You can fit a lot of rods in your oven I see, I like it. Some ovens are way too small, it baffles me why there are some ovens as small as they are.

Anybody ever fabricate their own oven?

[Silicon-based]

The small ovens are portable ovens for use on job sites.

[bczygan]

Just picked this up for $150.

Bill

[CAVEMANN]

The whole point of pulling a vacuum on an AC system, it causes the water to boil off as a vapor. Water treatment plant where I worked put the heated (170*) dirty water up some sort of tower, then a vacuum of 7 inches was applied which caused the water to flash into steam, the contaminants fell out and the water was again pure and returned to ground water. It's way more technical but that's the jest of it as I recall.

[Insaneride]

The whole point of pulling a vacuum on an AC system, it causes the water to boil off as a vapor. Water treatment plant where I worked put the heated (170*) dirty water up some sort of tower, then a vacuum of 7 inches was applied which caused the water to flash into steam, the contaminants fell out and the water was again pure and returned to ground water. It's way more technical but that's the jest of it as I recall.

Water doesn't follow the laws of physics so I can't say I've seen it boil off at such a low vacuum. Seven inches of mercury would be an extremely low vacuum. Water plays havoc in a vacuum. I've seen ice formed from water leaks in hi vacuum chamber next to glowing red titanium. We would have to vent and fix the leak to obtain hi vac. It just doesn't work with diffusion pumps. At hi altitudes/less pressure it takes more heat to boil water, at least that's what Betty Crocker saiz when baking a cake. I think there was more to the contaminant separation than you explained but then water may have a quadruple flash point. I think 7 inches of mercury is less than what you could pull thru a straw when drinking a coke. Atmosphere is around 29 inches but your stamens is interesting.