Blacksmithing and forging

[Shootr]

Did all the grinding freehand, I dig the final blade shape. I did a heat treat this morning, using new motor oil - no idea if I did it right - a file didn't really "skate" across the steel, but didn't dig in either.

Cleaned it up with a fine wire wheel on the bench grinder, then the final sharpening by hand. This was a fun exercise, I'm looking forward to working with some rebar and see how close I can get to making abstract stick people figures.

[ronsii]

Did all the grinding freehand, I dig the final blade shape. I did a heat treat this morning, using new motor oil - no idea if I did it right - a file didn't really "skate" across the steel, but didn't dig in either.

Cleaned it up with a fine wire wheel on the bench grinder, then the final sharpening by hand. This was a fun exercise, I'm looking forward to working with some rebar and see how close I can get to making abstract stick people figures.

Look great

you going to put any serrations on the spine???

[Shootr]

I thought about it, but I only like the style that are on the Laguiole type knives - and I don't have that kind of steadiness.

[VaughnT]

That looks seriously nice! I like the upswept spine flowing in the clip point.

Spikes aren't "high carbon" in the way knives are. Maybe higher carbon content than mild steel, but still pretty low on the scale compared to something like a blade maker's 1095 alloy. To heat treat one and get it harder, generally a very thin oil is preferable. You might even benefit from a water or brine quench since that'll be even faster. Of course, there's only so much you can do.

I spoke with the sales rep at the last US manufacturer of spikes and have a copy of their data sheet somewhere around here. They wanted something like $10 for a 10" spike, something they make, but don't make in large quantities.

Keep up the great work!

[Lis2323]

Did all the grinding freehand, I dig the final blade shape. I did a heat treat this morning, using new motor oil - no idea if I did it right - a file didn't really "skate" across the steel, but didn't dig in either.

Cleaned it up with a fine wire wheel on the bench grinder, then the final sharpening by hand. This was a fun exercise, I'm looking forward to working with some rebar and see how close I can get to making abstract stick people figures.

Holy crap Shootr that is totally nice work!!!


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[Lis2323]

Look great

you going to put any serrations on the spine???

Ooh. I LIKE that!!! Those punched holes......!


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[Bruce]

Shootr, That did really turn out nice, some serrations along the back would really add to it.

[whtbaron]

Looking good...

[psacustomcreations]

Great work shootr. Yours is tremendous for a beginner. I am very much a beginner as well.

More importantly, did you get a better feeling for how to hammer and where the metal is supposed to move?

Make sure you don't overdo it and stress out your elbow or shoulder.

I may have missed it, but do you have pics of you hammer? Vaughn and others may be able to offer some more advice based on the type of hammer you are using.

[Lis2323]

More importantly, did you get a better feeling for how to hammer and where the metal is supposed to move?
.

A friend of mine still teaches blacksmith beginner classes occasionally.

In the first session he gives each new student a can of this....



so they have an understanding of movement and displacement.


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[Robb M.]

test post

[whtbaron]

test post

LOL... you're pretty quick on a Monday!

[Shootr]

Great work shootr. Yours is tremendous for a beginner. I am very much a beginner as well.

More importantly, did you get a better feeling for how to hammer and where the metal is supposed to move?

Make sure you don't overdo it and stress out your elbow or shoulder.

I may have missed it, but do you have pics of you hammer? Vaughn and others may be able to offer some more advice based on the type of hammer you are using.

Thanks man - I appreciate the positive feedback (from everyone!).

I didn't do the clay exercise, but after the first effort, I visualized what I thought the hammer must be doing to push the metal the way it did. The height (not uncomfortable, just not optimum) of my anvil was allowing the hammer head to not hit squarely down unless I really paid attention. I started the second spike by intentionally holding it so the strikes would try to squish the metal out in the direction I wanted. I know I'm on the right track but it'll take a lot more practice to zero in on a proper techniques.

I'm just using a 2lb mini sledge and an 12oz ball peen for now. I've always had a pretty sturdy upper body, and I'm not swinging super hard - my goal is to tediously nudge the metal little by little so I could correct my effort more quickly before I make a major error.

[Lis2323]

Thanks man - I appreciate the positive feedback (from everyone!).

I didn't do the clay exercise, but after the first effort, I visualized what I thought the hammer must be doing to push the metal the way it did. The height (not uncomfortable, just not optimum) of my anvil was allowing the hammer head to not hit squarely down unless I really paid attention. I started the second spike by intentionally holding it so the strikes would try to squish the metal out in the direction I wanted. I know I'm on the right track but it'll take a lot more practice to zero in on a proper techniques.

I'm just using a 2lb mini sledge and an 12oz ball peen for now. I've always had a pretty sturdy upper body, and I'm not swinging super hard - my goal is to tediously nudge the metal little by little so I could correct my effort more quickly before I make a major error.

I think you’re off to an awesome start!


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[shortfuse]

Shootr, for starting out, one should only use a 2#, max 2 1/2#, hammer. After you have been forging for sometime, you could safely go up in weight to whatever you feel comfortable using. I have hammers up to about 5#, but my daily drivers are either a 2# or 2 1/2 #. Watch some videos by Craig Trnka, a farrier, and see how he moves metal with an approx. 2# rounding hammer!

[VaughnT]

Trnka is a frickin' genius when it comes to shaping steel. I still haven't figured out how he does it and I've been watching his videos for years. Straight up miracle worker, imo.

Hammers over 3# are for special occasions. For daily use, there's nothing you can't accomplish with a 2# or 2-1/2# hammer, and it'll be a lot easier on your arm. The only thing I change out right off the bat is the handle. If the hammer is 2# or heavier, it gets hafted with a cut down sledge hammer handle that I hit with the wire wheel and some oil to preserve it. No "palm swell" and all that other fancy shaping that only weakens the wood.


Just ordered another 3000 1" #10 wood screws to send out with the hooks I make. It's kind of gratifying to run out of screws, knowing that the only reason that happened is because you sold a passel of ironwork. The sucky part is having to bag up all the screws and drywall anchors with every order, but it's not something I can leave up to the customer and I haven't found a way around it.

Cost? It sucks. I'd like to use unfinished slotted screws since they are more traditional and look better, but they'd run me around $350/3000, plus shipping. The black-oxide philips head screws in the same size.... only about $150/3000 delivered to my door.

I can source zinc-plated screws that are slotted, but by the time you figure in the cost of stripping off the plating, then heating them and waxing them... it's just too much time and labor.

[VaughnT]

Here's an idea. Maybe call it a Welding Web Challenge for those interested in such things.

Blacksmith Bolt dot Com sells what they call a "hanger blank". It's nothing more than a lag screw on the end of a length of bar, exactly what any of us could make with a few minutes and a welder. But if you don't own a welder or don't want to burn the time and energy to weld up your own.... they're a pretty good option.



The smallest they offer is 1/4"x8".... and I'm at an absolute loss as to what I'd make out of one. I can see a nice plant hanger for an overhead beam, maybe forge a big circle with the excess bar, but that's about it.

If someone was making big bells out of O2 tanks and the like, I could see the larger 1/2" hanger blanks being very very handy as hangers for the things.

So, starting with a hanger blank of your choosing.... what would you do with it?

[whtbaron]

I've considered a ceiling hook for my welding helmet right over the welding table.... actually a double hook for both my hat (which comes off when the helmet goes on) and the helmet that I'm forever setting down too far away to reach again when I want to restart.... I've got a short ceiling (only 7') so a 6 to 8" blank that hung down 5 " after curving would be about right.

[whtbaron]

What about a combination rough wood/rough metal project? Maybe a post out of rough lumber or drift wood stained dark, with dark rough forged hooks.... maybe a post to hang coffee cups or beer steins on... I'm having 2nd thoughts about the hooks in the ceiling for my hat/helmet too. If the table gets moved, the holes from the hooks are in my metal ceiling forever. Maybe it needs to be a portable hat stand that stays ungrounded from the welding table so it can hold the stinger too.... again, a rough wood look with hooks could work... and it would still be insulated if the floor got wet from melting snow...

[Bruce]

How about a kayak hanger, two loops or a bicycle hanger, one loop?

[shortfuse]

Anyone know if you can buy threading dies to make lag bolt threads? You could use them to make those kinds of bolts/rods from just about any scrap metal rods.

[VaughnT]

Not possible to turn the threads since they continue around the curve to the point. I watched one of those "how it's made" the shows on them, and it's neat to see them being rolled between two plates.

Of course, you don't really need the point or the threads on it. Even with a lag bolt like that, you're supposed to drill a pilot hole that's the same or slightly smaller than the minor diameter of the bolt. Otherwise, you're their all day trying to get the thing threaded in and risk splitting the heck out of your wood.

That being the case, you could come up with a die for cutting coarse threads that'd bite into the wood. Something like 1/4-10 or 1/2-6, with a deep valley and sharp ridge. Don't know if anyone makes something like that, though.

Wonder how hard it would be to make something on the lathe then run it through a heat-treat process. Of course, then I wonder if it wouldn't just be easier to weld a commercial lag screw onto the end of whatever rod length I like.

[Shootr]

Wanted to try another knife (bad week at work - needed some stress management).


Just barely fit.


About as far as I could draw it out.


It cleaned up nice - used belt sander, flap disc, dremel, and palm sander. Then I went to harden it, pretty sure I had the temp right - I used a temperature crayon and it didn't stick to a magnet.



Then I dropped it...


Aaaaaaaarrrrrrrgggggghhhhhhg!

But what the heck - I have the most bada$$ butter knife on the planet!

[VaughnT]

Got it to the right temp for hardening..... but did you run through any normalization cycles before that?


Looks fantastic regardless, and I'm absolutely sure it'll be a dream to smear some cream cheese on bagel!!

One thing you might try when you're at the palm sander stage is to wet-sand the steel. I just use water, but I know a lot of folks like something like Windex or soapy water. For whatever reason, a wet-sand leaves a much nicer finish even though you're running the same grit. Weird but true.

[Shootr]

Got it to the right temp for hardening..... but did you run through any normalization cycles before that?


Looks fantastic regardless, and I'm absolutely sure it'll be a dream to smear some cream cheese on bagel!!

One thing you might try when you're at the palm sander stage is to wet-sand the steel. I just use water, but I know a lot of folks like something like Windex or soapy water. For whatever reason, a wet-sand leaves a much nicer finish even though you're running the same grit. Weird but true.

Could you share what your grit progression is?

I used 60 grit on the belt grinder first to smooth, then 120. Next was the palm sander with 150, then 320 (it's just what I had handy). Last was a fine wire brush on the bench grinder. I should probably look into how to normalize .