The Religious Thread Is God great? Has science burried God? A respecful debate thread

[MinnesotaDave]

?... it's pi=3.1416 but always use 3.14159

Jeff

What I actually find humorous, is there are real debates about pi and the bible.

http://creation.com/does-the-bible-say-pi-equals-3

[FORTEALLOY]

This sticky needs to go.

Why?
Its off topic, labeled as such, and seems to be a popular topic. Anyone not wishing to participate can easily avoid it.
We share a common interest in welding, but all of us have other aspects to our lives, different areas of interest or expertise. Religion seems to be universal.
I've enjoyed the thread.

[Louie1961]

I look at it this way sometimes, or at least I say this to my atheist family members: I lose nothing by being a practicing Catholic. If I am right, if my faith is correct, and everything promised comes to pass, then I am in great shape. If I am wrong and religion is false, nothing but a meaningless superstition, then I still win. I have lived my life according to the commandments, and that's not a bad thing. Thou shall not steal, thou shall not lie, do unto others, etc., those are great guidelines on how to live a good life whether you believe or not. And paying for my kids to go to parochial school has provided them a better education than they would have ever received in public schools around here. So, I say live and let live. Me personally, I have seen a few miracles in my time as a medic. Honest to goodness miracles that defy science. So I will continue to believe.

[FORTEALLOY]

Well said!

Religion seems to be a universal interest, which brings people back to this thread, both reading and posting...

...Plus you should be worshipping Satan. If he is the one responsible for eternally punishing all the evil doers and sinners in the world, does that not make him the good guy?
BTW I'm not debating anything here, just pointing out a couple of the hundreds of logical fallacies and contradictions in the bible

Soutthpaw,
Many of the apparent contradictions are easily explained. A closer look at authorship, intended audience, and the complete context of the text sheds considerable light on any so-called "problems". Some good info here:
http://carm.org/how-interpret-bible

If he is the one responsible for eternally punishing all the evil doers and sinners in the world...
A common misconception, fueled by cartoons of a guy in a red suit, pointed tail, and a pitchfork, having his way with unlucky souls. This concept is not found anywhere in the bible, just the opposite is true. Satan has never even been to hell, and not in any hurry to arrive. When he does, he'll be chained up and tormented himself. Wont be bothering anyone then. The bible is a more reputable source of information on the topic of Satan and hell. Interesting book. Track record measured in millennia. Been examined and cross-examined by a lot of knowledgeable people, still going strong. What about hell? The ultimate author of the bible (Jesus) claims to have created it, and also holds the keys to it. Intended as a place of torment for Satan, but many others will end up there as well. Fairly bold claim, worth a serious look. He was either totally delusional, or He's exactly who He claims to be. I believe the latter. Everything else in the book has panned out or otherwise come true.
Much better explanation here:
http://www.gotquestions.org/Satan-master-hell.html

People believe a lot of things, for their own reasons, and sometimes for no reason at all. A wise person will know what they believe, why they believe it, and the risks/outcomes for doing something different. As an extreme example, someone might believe they can weld galvanized steel wearing only dark sunglasses and no respirator. They have no use for a welding textbook, and choose to ignore the printed warnings packed with the rods. If they survive the experience, they'll have much greater respect for the numerous tips, tricks, warnings, and other guidelines found in the welding texts. Some ignore the warnings, and choose to learn the hard way. Some are no longer around because of it. Same idea for The Religious Thread. Pick a reputable and authoritative text, the bible, and learn from it. Life & death choice....

Respectfully.....

[soutthpaw]

I'll go with totally delusional. Also Jesus did not pen a single words of the bible as it was compiled years after his pseudo death. So it's a biography of his life in human form really.
Also do you know Muhammad was a pagen till he went totally delusional ... err I'm mean God visited him too? How many nutjobs in history have claimed to be the all mighty? How many cult leaders claimed to be God or his chosen messenger?

[docwelder]

here's my problem with the religion thing. today's pre-breakfast knock on the door was the j's witnesses with their hungry looking kids in tow offering to tell me the truth. earlier it was the crowd of mormon missionary's coming to deepest darkest queens to save the unwashed heathen also offering their version of the truth. then it's the newly incarcerated christians who keep religion first. the bible is the first thing they pick up and the first thing that gets left on the cell floor when they leave. if bibles were bricks i could build a new wing on the jail with them. on tv i see numerous televangelists. one of them offers me free (with a small donation)a blessed cloth guaranteed to make the faithful wealthy. there are too many competing salesmen pitching the same product. which is real?

[Gar]

Man Doc, I hear ya loud and clear. There is a lot of noise out there. Who do ya believe, where do ya start. False teachers and teachings abound. But there is truth, and it will only manifest itself to them that search for it as one would search for gold or silver. If one wants to guard against false doctrine, one must read the Bible for themselves, cover to cover, over and over, and never stop.

Be safe out there brother, your job ain't an easy one.

Gar

"The best safeguard against false doctrine is the Bible regularly read, regularly prayed over, and regularly studied. We must go back to the old prescription of our Master: ‘Search the Scriptures’ (John 5:39)." J.C Ryle

2 Peter 2:1-3:
"But there were also false prophets among the people, even as there will be false teachers among you, who will secretly bring in destructive heresies, even denying the Lord who bought them, and bring on themselves swift destruction. And many will follow their destructive ways, because of whom the way of truth will be blasphemed. By covetousness they will exploit you with deceptive words; for a long time their judgment has not been idle, and their destruction does not slumber."

2 Timothy 4:3-5:
"For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine, but according to their own desires, because they have itching ears, they will heap up for themselves teachers; and they will turn their ears away from the truth, and be turned aside to fables. But you be watchful in all things, endure afflictions, do the work of an evangelist, fulfill your ministry."

[mxpapa]

You are a good spokesman Gar, and there are a ton of tv evangelist that are out for the bucks, and man I pitty those fools, I'll put a plug in for one that I think is the real deal and that is Joyce Myers, check her out on tv and see what you think.

[HT2-4956]

I look at it this way sometimes, or at least I say this to my atheist family members: I lose nothing by being a practicing Catholic. If I am right, if my faith is correct, and everything promised comes to pass, then I am in great shape. If I am wrong and religion is false, nothing but a meaningless superstition, then I still win. .............................
.......................
.......................

This line of thinking is known as "Pascal's Wager". It's a seriously flawed argument that's been pretty well refuted. It's not the simple, safe bet it appears to be. To begin with it presents you with a "false dilemma" because not only do you have to believe in God you have to believe in the right God in the right way. I'm sure if you asked him directly Gar would be more than willing to explain to you how, as a Catholic, you're headed for an eternity of damnation just like he thinks (hopes) I am.

This short 3 minute video does a good job of pointing out what's wrong with Pascal's Wager. But you can also search "Pascal's Wager refuted" and get lot's more information on it.

[docwelder]

televangelists-hucksters fleecing the rubes. the only thing missing is the phony cripples being miraculously healed at the altar.

[cornemuse]

How 'bout more about the fishes?

[HT2-4956]

You are a good spokesman Gar, and there are a ton of tv evangelist that are out for the bucks, and man I pitty those fools, I'll put a plug in for one that I think is the real deal and that is Joyce Myers, check her out on tv and see what you think.

mxpapa,

Sorry to have to burst your bubble bubba, but Joyce Myers is right up there with worst of those TV Evangelists that are "out for the bucks". I would suggest you read this wiki entry on her (especially the section on Salary and Finances) before sending her any of your hard earned dollars.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Joyce_Meyer

[docwelder]

mxpapa,

Sorry to have to burst your bubble bubba, but Joyce Myers is right up there with worst of those TV Evangelists that are "out for the bucks". I would suggest you read this wiki entry on her (especially the section on Salary and Finances) before sending her any of your hard earned dollars.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Joyce_Meyer

i'm shocked at that revelation. simply shocked and appalled. the next thing you're going to say is that pro wrestling is fixed.

[HT2-4956]

i'm shocked at that revelation. simply shocked and appalled. the next thing you're going to say is that pro wrestling is fixed.

Isn't it???

[Bluewelders]

i'm shocked at that revelation. simply shocked and appalled. the next thing you're going to say is that pro wrestling is fixed.

So flawed in every way, it can't be fixed.

[Sandy]

Religion(s) and Atheism are both belief systems. One based on faith that a god does exist, the other based on deductive reasoning but yet absolutely no proof that a god does not exist. Zealots from either side can be genuine pains in the arses. Both tend to vocally/forcefully overwhelm the global community with "facts' and "reasoning' of why they believe the way they believe and why the rest of the world should believe also, involuntarily if necessary. Barring success in that tactic they resort to suppression of any other lines of thought seeking a false consensus. That suppression has come and still comes in many forms.

When it comes to matters of opinion it's not likely that I'll spend two or three hours watching some youtube video of someone elses opinion just to be able to click on a vote/poll button. Nor am I going to be reading every anti-theist article the fabulous wiki has.

I truly believe that a true vanilla ice cream is much better than an orange sherbert any day. Being hit by a bolt of lightening from above or being schooled by an intellectual on the error of my ways isn't going to change that.

[soutthpaw]

Religion(s) and Atheism are both belief systems. One based on faith that a god does exist, the other based on deductive reasoning but yet absolutely no proof that a god does not exist. Zealots from either side can be genuine pains in the arses. Both tend to vocally/forcefully overwhelm the global community with "facts' and "reasoning' of why they believe the way they believe and why the rest of the world should believe also, involuntarily if necessary. Barring success in that tactic they resort to suppression of any other lines of thought seeking a false consensus. That suppression has come and still comes in many forms.

When it comes to matters of opinion it's not likely that I'll spend two or three hours watching some youtube video of someone elses opinion just to be able to click on a vote/poll button. Nor am I going to be reading every anti-theist article the fabulous wiki has.

I truly believe that a true vanilla ice cream is much better than an orange sherbert any day. Being hit by a bolt of lightening from above or being schooled by an intellectual on the error of my ways isn't going to change that.

Atheism is NOT a belief system. If is only the belief that God or Gods do not exist. To be a system like religion it needs a whole value system that is shared amongst a group with that belief. Humanism, you can argue is a belief system. But Atheism most definitely is not.

[docwelder]

So flawed in every way, it can't be fixed.

there may be a slim chance for pro wrestling.

[mxpapa]

Sorry she makes money, good for her, i'm no expert on her, I do know she has written dozens of books and as the term goes (sold wherever books are sold) probly makes a pretty penny off them as well, I just mentioned her so if anyone was interested in hearing a different kind of preacher tune in one day, its not pay per view.

mxpapa,

Sorry to have to burst your bubble bubba, but Joyce Myers is right up there with worst of those TV Evangelists that are "out for the bucks". I would suggest you read this wiki entry on her (especially the section on Salary and Finances) before sending her any of your hard earned dollars.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Joyce_Meyer

[NinjaRay]

Benny Hinn is amazing, He drops people like I drop flies when I don't shower for a week The guy makes tons of money and is the biggest S.O.B con I ever seen. Here I was about to close my shop and go on welfare but instead I think I will become a minister.

[dubl_t]

Hey HT',
What do you think of Joel Olsteen?
Just curious. You may not be a Believer, but you know a lot about 'em.

[Gar]

Not promoting this guy as a perfect preacher, there really are no perfect preachers, but he does have some good sermons I have found edifying in my walk with Christ. This one is on, "HOW TO RECOGNIZE FALSE TEACHING."

"Francis Chan gives away about 90 percent of his income, doesn't take a salary from his church, and has donated most of his book royalties, which have totaled about $2,000,000, to various charities. Much of it goes to organizations which rescue sex slaves in foreign countries.


Have a great week everyone! Be safe out there!

Gar

[pig farmer]

I believe!! I have witnessed God's power many times. My daughter was diagnosed with cancer at age 3. Doctors were doom and gloom. Nothing good to say. Said she would not be cordinated enough to ride a bike, no monkey bars, math and science out of the question, never have kids,blah ba blah blah... if she made it at all. My prayer was "Lord she was yours from the beginning. She was just on loan to her mother and I. Would like to keep her here with us. We will do our best. But if you need to take her home please make it as painless as possible." Tough prayer to make. Answer to my prayer- She is now 23. Graduated from high school. She is now a nurse aide. I have a grand baby that brings joy!! We put our faith in Jesus Christ. Our Lord and Savior.
As a side note: the country song that talks about thanking God for unanswered prayers. I don't agree. He answers them, just not the answer I want some times.

[Gar]

I believe!! I have witnessed God's power many times. My daughter was diagnosed with cancer at age 3. Doctors were doom and gloom. Nothing good to say. Said she would not be cordinated enough to ride a bike, no monkey bars, math and science out of the question, never have kids,blah ba blah blah... if she made it at all. My prayer was "Lord she was yours from the beginning. She was just on loan to her mother and I. Would like to keep her here with us. We will do our best. But if you need to take her home please make it as painless as possible." Tough prayer to make. Answer to my prayer- She is now 23. Graduated from high school. She is now a nurse aide. I have a grand baby that brings joy!! We put our faith in Jesus Christ. Our Lord and Savior.
As a side note: the country song that talks about thanking God for unanswered prayers. I don't agree. He answers them, just not the answer I want some times.

Amen brother, awesome story! Thanks for sharing. Faith is not blind to those who know Christ personally.

Gar

[pig farmer]

Gar that is just part of the story just didn't want to write a book lol. I was working for a company that was just getting started. They promised 401K, medical, lots of benifits. I worked there for 2.5 years before they made good on medical. About 3 months before the diagnosis they signed us up for med. I started looking for a job because things weren't looking good. Couldn't find anything with benefits that would except a pre existing condition. The wife and I were praying for better job for me. She had to quit work to take care of my daughter. Well A friend called me and told me they had an opening in a pilot plant and I should apply. There was over 70 applicants for that job. I got the job. The new company had just re-vamped their insurance and excepted the pre existing conditon. Within 2 months my former employer closed their doors. God is GOOOOOODD!