TIG with C25 Argon/CO2... Not so Good!

[n8ghz]

Back to square one....Argon or Helium for TIG....helium being hotter...in my experience?

William said: "You also do not want to breath the fumes from doing, what you did with the CO2 passing over the Tungsten".

What about ALL the MIG fab shops who use str8 Co2 instead of 75-25,stargone,etc.?
Apparently passing Co2 over MIG wire is not as 'bad'?

Isn't an electric arc 11k F. anyway?

[JohnR]

Well, allow me to butt in. From my limited understanding, tungsten is one of the highest melting point elemental metal around. It's used in light bulbs (incandescent) as the filament. In a completely inert atmosphere, there is no real measurable amount of wear on the tungsten from being used. As soon as you mix in c25, you can now liberate 16.5% oxygen content from c25 (25% being co2, 66% of that being liberated as free oxygen once it's ionized and in the arc). Ever break the envelope to a lightbulb? The filament glows extremely bright then burns out. That's the tungsten oxidizing. That gives off fumes, I'm sure. The atmosphere is about 20% oxygen, so running c25 is about 3.5% less harmful to the tungsten than running no shielding gas as far as oxidation goes. Running co2 vs c25 on mig usually lends deeper penetration and more splatter vs c25. That's because the oxygen being released from the co2 aiding in adding heat to the base metal as some of it is oxidized (same as a cutting torch) but mig wire usually has enough deoxidizers present to fix any porosity issues. Iron Oxide is all around you, from the mig welding process it's most likely bound in the silica left from the deoxidizers in the wire. Tungsten oxide not so much. A quick google search didn't turn up much.

[Donald Branscom]

Shortened...see previous post.
William McCormick[/quote]

The new subs are not steel anymore .

[Donald Branscom]

Back to square one....Argon or Helium for TIG....helium being hotter...in my experience?

William said: "You also do not want to breath the fumes from doing, what you did with the CO2 passing over the Tungsten".

What about ALL the MIG fab shops who use str8 Co2 instead of 75-25,stargone,etc.?
Apparently passing Co2 over MIG wire is not as 'bad'?

Isn't an electric arc 11k F. anyway?

Helium is mixed with argon when TIG welding on thick aluminum sections and it increases penetration.
You need the regulator that has the little plastic balls in the verticle glass tube style regulator.

Argon stabilizes the arc and keeps oxygen away from the weld pool.
Co2 gas cools the weld and keeps oxygen away. That is why muffler shops like 75/25 .
Helium keeps oxygen away and increases penetration.
There are many gas mixtures and percentages used for different purposes in welding and cutting.
There are at least 50 different welding processes.

[B_C]

Hmmmmmm very interesting....I wonder what would happen if you used Propane ?

[GSG]

That looks like what happened when our gas supplier gave us a bottle of Nitrogen instead of Argon.

[Rizz01]

Lesson here - live and learn!
I had a new TIG welder but no argon gas, bottle, or regulator - just small CO2 tanks.
"Bring your TIG welder over next time you're up my way", said my out-of-town pal.
So 200km (120 miles) and a few weeks later, I was in my pal's garage.
"I just got my bottle filled. let's give her a try."
Note: Neither of us had 'tigged' before... but we'd been around it and knew what to expect.

Being our 1st time, we went at just 40 amps (electrode negative) on some sheet metal (steel).
Arc lite just fine... just like on TV!
Over the next say 15 minutes, we each took turns playing... neither of us could lay a bead but then... WTF?
Attachment 54229
Yeah, the end of my ceramic cup fell off! The electrode was all crapped-up too!

Want to see a close up?
Attachment 54230
Lovely eh? Just lovely!


"Hey what's going on?"
"Are you sure that gas is argon?"
"It's 'ArgoShield'."
"ArgoShield ! That's like C25 - 75% Argon and 25% CO2. The CO2 is burning up the torch."

Ah well... it was fun while it lasted!
Lesson = TIG needs inert gas like argon, C25 doesn't cut it!

I know this is pretty immature but:
I got the best laugh I've had in a while after looking at those pics.
Lesson learned, eh?

[tryple5soul]

luckily when I did this, I didnt do any damage. I got 100% argon and everything was great! lol. good times

[sn0border88]

Co2 gas cools the weld and keeps oxygen away. That is why muffler shops like 75/25 .

Once again you scare me with your "44 years of experience."

CO2 is a reactive gas, when it breaks down or "dissociates" under the arc it gives off energy, increasing the heat of the weld. Any textbook will tell you the exact same thing. And when it breaks down it actually exposes the weld to oxygen and carbon, which is why welds with CO2 will look duller compared to those done with C10. This is also why it is not wise to weld stainless steels with high C gas mixes, because of the oxidization and carbon pickup associated with them.

[JohnR]

Snoborder88, I had done the math for percentages of oxygen released in c25 in a previous post in this thread. I kinda did the wall-o-text thing, so I don't blame ya for not reading it

[Rizz01]

luckily when I did this, I didnt do any damage. I got 100% argon and everything was great! lol. good times

So, how ARE you doing?
If everything is okay, post some pics.
I'd like to see your progress....
If you have any issues, we can all get together and help you out.
Keep practicing and you'll soon become a pro.......
Keep us posted

[phyisisist777]

Damit...

I read this forum a couple of times every week, and If i had just opend this sticky, I could have saved myself months of headaches

in march, I upgraded from a 80CF tank to a 250 because I was burning through argon too quickly on aluminum and the following weekend I was planing on grafting a new cab onto my truck and didn't want to run out of argon.

Well, I couldn't run a bead to save my life. But I assumed it was just me since I haven't tig'd steel for years. Haven't welded Aluminum since before the bottle switch. Just tried, and you guessed it - oxidizes like crazy. Checked the bottle - 25%CO2.

What pisses me off the most is I asked for an upgrade on my current 100% argon bottle, AND I bought green tungsten at the same time. I would assume Airgas would know better. I have never dealt with 25% co2 bottles, nor did I even know it was an accidental option. guess I need to start double checking everything the "experts" at Airgas give me... especially when I pay $300 for a new tank.

[BHere]

OMG
I started to believe that I am just too dense to learn to TIG. At first I thought I found the trick when my used Syncro came with a CO2 tank so I was excited to see that the tiny MIG welder had a bottle that began with Argo something er other.
I can't weld worth a **** since my tungsten seems to melt away no matter what I do.

You all know that it WAS BOC Argoshield Light. Sounds like Agron just like pit sounds like excrement.

I know that it is usually the welder not the weldor but that machine was fighting me. But, in tigger's defence, some moron, who had already read this thread, did hook up that bottle.

I'll pony up more $ and see if Argon makes it look more like the demos on the net.

I suppose that I now contribute to reason this thread is sticky.
Enjoy the laugh.

[mariashark]

Welcome back William!

I'd just like to thank Rick for being able to use his camera!!!!! Nice Pic's Rick!!! Hope the torch isn't wrecked.

[3 weelin geezer]

Hmmm...You know, I tried this with my argon/co2 mix thinking if its good for MIG its good for TIG. No oxygen here. Nope. Just a collossal waste of gas. works for about 1/2 cm then the electrode starts to melt into the torch. At first I thought I had the polarity reversed but doing so just made it ball up and disappear even faster. Wait...C..O-2...AW Dammit! I certainly would like a video of this happening but alas I can't seem to find my tripod to hold the camera!

[dusty1]

I made same mistake with a 75/25 mix,couldnt figure out why i kept burning up my tungsten no matter how low i set amperage.Somebody on another forum squared me away real quick.Funny thing is,a local "shop" swears up & down that you wanna use a 75/25 argon/CO2 mix for Tig.I go to his competitions shop now

[theportableweldshop]

We all learn from our own mistakes and other people's mistakes too!!!!!

[Dennispr]

Thanks for your story and pictures. This explains my situation exactly, today I rented another bottle of pure Argon this time and hopefully will improve my mood about tig.

[hill]

A similar black carbon steel pillar, was dug up, it was dated back many thousands of years ago. Just some food for the mind.


Sincerely,


William McCormick

That was in 2001, right? It had been dug up prior but confounded the apes, agitating them to violence and the discovery of tools.























































(the movie: "2001")

[weldermike]

I almost wet my pants when i fell on the floor laughing looking at the first pics! Looked like a burnt hot dog!

[JohnR]

That's amazing. You forgot orchestra music piped in from an unknown source

Sent from my SCH-I545 using Tapatalk

[Rick V]

I almost wet my pants when i fell on the floor laughing looking at the first pics! Looked like a burnt hot dog!

"Hey weldermike... about that oil finish..."

[serious_lee]

I found a reference to that Civil War "tank" people were chatting about earlier in case anyone is interested.

http://landships.activeboard.com/mob...&topic=8027058

Not exactly what I was picturing in my head, but still neat.

[circa1977]

turkey tastes good. better than tig welding stainless.. buy some fat turkeys instead of tig welding... just sayin....

[Donald Branscom]

This is why it is good to take a beginning welding class.