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Thread: Ranger 8 - no power?

  1. #1
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    Ranger 8 - no power?

    K1616-1 (LPG)
    10541

    I have zero volts AC/DC at the welding terminals and <1 volt AC at the outlet. I see there is only 1v and 5v DC at the 2 wires going to the copper rotor? I am assuming this uses elector magnets vs. permanent magnets , should both be 12v?? If so look like I need a new PCB1?


    Manuals:
    http://www.lincolnelectric.com/asset...oln3/im604.pdf
    http://www.lincolnelectric.com/asset...coln1/p229.pdf


    Thank you.

  2. #2
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    Re: Ranger 8 - no power?

    Did you run through the troubleshooting steps on page 19 of manual IM604?

    So what did you find on the no run on propane issue?
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  3. #3
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    Re: Ranger 8 - no power?

    #1: I am not sure what should be DC and what should be AC so I checked both on a lot of the terminals and got nothing. If this is using an elector magnet, it is not getting 12v.

    #2: I am assuming the # refer to the # on the diagram (200, 224, ...) on p21?
    200 has a "C1 field capacitor" in it (what does that look like?) and connects to D2, have not found that yet.

    200A/219 to ground - one is 1v other is 8v, both are DC

    The manual talk about E1537 symbols - google does not not about E1537
    But I found this http://talkingelectronics.com/CctSym...t_Symbols.html

    #3: Does this mean there should be 4 ohms between the 2 copper disc after removing part #9 from page P-229-D? I did not test that but I will if that is what it is saying, not sure?

    4: How do I test R1 potentiometer? Is that the 1-10 fine adjustment? I did notice when moving the fine adjustment it did alter the voltage/rpm at the 110 outlet, .2 - .5 volts AC? Any idea what the volts should be at the fine adjustment? This looks like a cheep part to replace?

    5: I did not try yet

    6: Is D2 a diode bridge(AC -> DC converter)? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Diode_bridge, I still have to find this part. What volts AC and DC should this be?

    7: I am assuming we should rule out all the others first, high $$$ test.

    I will do some more work this week and post my finding.
    Last edited by ziegler; 01-16-2011 at 10:00 PM.

  4. #4
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    Re: Ranger 8 - no power?

    See answers below.

    Quote Originally Posted by ziegler View Post
    #1: I am not sure what should be DC and what should be AC so I checked both on a lot of the terminals and got nothing. If this is using an elector magnet, it is not getting 12v.
    Basically, everthing going into the generator is DC and everything coming out is AC.

    #2: I am assuming the # refer to the # on the diagram (200, 224, ...) on p21?
    Yes.

    200 has a "C1 field capacitor" in it (what does that look like?)
    Like this:
    Name:  IMG_3301.jpg
Views: 1405
Size:  56.3 KB

    and connects to D2, have not found that yet.
    Which looks somethign like this:
    Name:  Weldanpower 150.jpg
Views: 1393
Size:  17.6 KB

    200A/219 to ground - one is 1v other is 8v, both are DC
    Not each one to ground - read voltage between them.

    The manual talk about E1537 symbols - google does not not about E1537
    But I found this http://talkingelectronics.com/CctSym...t_Symbols.html
    It's just a drawing symbol standard.

    #3: Does this mean there should be 4 ohms between the 2 copper disc after removing part #9 from page P-229-D? I did not test that but I will if that is what it is saying, not sure?
    Yes, but you don't have to remove the brushes and holder assembly. Just lift the brushes off each slip ring and insert a piece of paper to insulate the brush from the ring. Take the resistance reading between the two rings.

    4: How do I test R1 potentiometer? Is that the 1-10 fine adjustment? I did notice when moving the fine adjustment it did alter the voltage/rpm at the 110 outlet, .2 - .5 volts AC? Any idea what the volts should be at the fine adjustment? This looks like a cheep part to replace?
    Yes, R1 is the Fine Current Control and should have the value in ohms stamped or etched somewhere on the body. It's tested by checking resistance between the center terminal and each outer terminal (seperately). Resistance should go from none to rated value one way and the opposite in the other.

    5: I did not try yet

    6: Is D2 a diode bridge(AC -> DC converter)? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Diode_bridge, I still have to find this part. What volts AC and DC should this be?
    Yes. See #2 above.

    7: I am assuming we should rule out all the others first, high $$$ test.
    Yes.


    I will do some more work this week and post my finding.
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  5. #5
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    Re: Ranger 8 - no power?

    #3. 4.5ohms
    #4. Potentiometer, BAD.
    high side: setting 0-9.99 open
    10 (185 ohms) -10.9 (.4 ohms)

    low side: 0(.5 ohms) - .99 (71.6 ohms)
    1-10 open

    #7. PC Board - BAD.
    Any way to get a schematic? Or any change all 4 the white blocks have the same rating? Any sources for good used ones?
    Attached Images Attached Images  

  6. #6
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    Re: Ranger 8 - no power?

    Someone let the smoke out.

    Here are a couple places for repairs:
    http://gemelectronics.org/
    http://www.arc-products.com/pcboards.php

    Lincoln tech department should be able to help out with board schematics and component specs.
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  7. #7
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    Re: Ranger 8 - no power?

    The white blocks (resisters) may not be bad. It is normal for them to discolor over time because of heat from the resisters. The center 2 are parallel and are in the flashing circuit.
    The flashing circuit takes battery voltage voltage through current limiting resisters and D9 diode. wire 200B should have little less than 12vdc to ground.
    You also need 12vdc from 224 to 5E going into the pcb Must have this voltage or nothing works. Here's a diagram that may be close to yours. You will need to put it next to your machine diagram to make sense.
    Attached Images Attached Images

  8. #8
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    Re: Ranger 8 - no power?

    Hey if your lucky it could be the full wave rectifyer, or a brush commutation problem. I can send you the technical manual for that machine as I work in the welder repair field and have access to all sorts of diagrams. If you supply and email i can send you the PDF from lincoln, it will walk ya through most all problems.

  9. #9
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    Re: Ranger 8 - no power?

    The white blocks are power resistors, its common that these look like that, what looks burnt is the conformal coating used to protect the board, as it is heated by the resistors!

  10. #10
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    Re: Ranger 8 - no power?

    New potentiometer and still no ac/dc power.

    Capacitor test influent Ohm and looks OK. My multi meter does have a ->+, and on this setting the numbers go up until there is only "1" displayed.

    D2, field rectifier, test 9.4(20K) from ~(+ lead) to +(- lead), terminal opposite the (+ lead) has about the same reading with ~(- lead).

    What is next, PC board?

  11. #11
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    Re: Ranger 8 - no power?

    Check for power at the PCB1. If it's the same as mine it was 224 on the print. X2 in the resistors looking burnt. Mine look exactly like that. BTW Lincoln tech support is really good if you talk to Ed.
    Lincoln Ranger 8
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  12. #12
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    Re: Ranger 8 - no power?

    Do you have the 12 volts from the battery at the pcb.?
    As I said in #7 No 12vdc to pcb nothing works. Must have 12vdc to the pcb. make sure it is there, before you even think about replacing the pcb. or anything else.

  13. #13
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    Re: Ranger 8 - no power?

    The Lincoln tech had me check the Ohms from the rotor to ground, and the e-mail said it should be 500,000+ Ohms removing only 1 of the lead.

    If I remove the (+) lead only I get 22,000 Ohms and if I remove the (-) lead only I get infinite? What does this mean? Bad rotor windings? Bad rotor? Leaky bearings?

  14. #14
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    Re: Ranger 8 - no power?

    Not sure why the tech would have instructed to remove only one lead as that could give a false reading - as I suspect you got.

    From the Ranger 8 Service Manual:
    (Steps 1-8 outline getting to the brushes/rotor slip rings)
    9. Isolate the rotor electrically by removing
    the generator brush leads..
    10. Remove lead 219 from the negative
    brush.
    11. Remove lead 200A from the positive
    brush.
    12. Measure the resistance across the rotor
    slip rings.
    A. Set the ohmmeter on the low scale
    (X1).
    B. Place one meter probe on one of the
    rotor slip rings. Place the other probe
    on the other slip ring.
    C. Check the resistance across the slip
    rings. It should read between 4 and 5
    ohms.
    13. Measure the resistance to ground.
    A. Set the ohmmeter on the high scale
    (X100,000).
    B. Place one probe on either of the slip
    rings. Place the other probe on any
    good, unpainted ground. The
    machine ground stud works well.
    C. Check the resistance. It should read
    very high, at least 0.5 megohm
    (500,000 ohms).
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  15. #15
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    Re: Ranger 8 - no power?

    How do I get a copy of the service manual?

    Download? I did not see one on Lincoln weld site
    Order one from local parts supplier?

  16. #16
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    Re: Ranger 8 - no power?

    PM me an e-mail address.
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  17. #17
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    Re: Ranger 8 - no power?

    Quote Originally Posted by duaneb55 View Post
    See answers below.
    Noob here. I've been trying for a few weeks now to get the hang of the difference between a rheostat and a bridge rectifier but no luck so far. I've tried to figure that out on my own and read about it on Wikipedia and even this article with a video about bridge rectifiers https://www.derf.com/how-a-bridge-rectifier-works-step-by-step-tutorial/ but they don't really explain the difference so that I can understand it.. Too many long complicated words Could somebody here please explain that? Thanks in advance

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