MTS 211Si wire feed speed / voltage

[WeldMore]

This post picks up where the EverLast forum with the same subject left off.



Hi Kevin and Mark,
First thank you for the responses. I am not trying to ruffle any feathers or bad mouth the 211Si. I was just trying to understand what to expect from the welder. I sent this data and more to EverLast tech support on Oct 28. I ended my email with the following - "any suggestions would be most welcome. Also, I would not be insulted if you say my data is crap and suggest a different way to test". The only response I received was to send the unit back. So I assumed it was defective.

The reason I started testing at all was the poor results I was getting in Synergic mode (also info I sent to EverLast). The settings were just too hot using 030 Lincoln ER70S-6 on 1/4" mild steel. It appears others may have also reported this. So I went to Standard mode and was going to use the voltage and wire speed charts from Miller, Lincoln, Hobart, ... to set up the welder. But first I thought it best to determine how well the display setting corresponded to the actual performance. As Mark noted machine to machine differences should be expected.

First, for the wire voltage. I did indeed use a cheap meter but compared it to my lab meter at 20V and it was set within .05 volts. I also added an RC circuit to help smooth out the modulated output from the welder. I would have connected my oscilloscope but the meter and display voltage correlated fairly well so I did not bother. My concern with the data I collected was not the absolute value of the voltage but the voltage variation. I have no problem blaming my welding technique for the voltage variation. I was just trying to figure out what offset I should use for the display setting versus the welder output. In the testing my standard deviation averaged about 0.4 volts. If EverLast feels that better technique would flatten out the variation I would accept that.

Second, for the wire speed. I think my data is fairly accurate and the wire speed on my unit was significantly higher than the display setting. Reference counting feed roller rotations and correlating that to speed. To determine the "effective diameter" of the feed roller I set the tension while feeding wire with the gun angled against a piece of wood. Then with the gun still against the wood I ran the wire thru 10 rotations and measured the amount of wire feed (I did this twice). The calculated diameter from the test was 1.154" while the measured roller diameter was 1.165" (within 1%). But Mark raised some good points on what would effect wire speed, although I would think increased back tension or jamming of the wire at the tip would put a strain on the motor and slow it down. The rotation to rotation and run to run data consistently shows higher than displayed speed.
I scrubbed all my feed speed data and collected it below. The difference from the previous data is at 400 in/min, where the scrubbed multiple run data also shows the speed is higher than the display.



So with all that said, I would still like to have the 211Si over any other welder I have looked at. All I need to know is what to expect for the settings in relationship to the actual so I can set it up properly.

Thanks again for any input.
Gene

[KMA]

Maybe the synergic mode issue is a combination of 2 or more of the following:

1. Actual voltage is roughly 1 volt or so higher than display setting
2. Actual wire speed is roughly 25% faster than display setting
3. Voltage/wire speed relationship doesn't always match other calculators/settings charts

I haven't done much testing, but my guess is that if you set your wire feed speed based on your findings, then manually change the voltage (also using your measurements), it should track from that point on (at least over a certain range). You could try it and check it against your data to see if the translated values match what you're expecting. If so, you can save the settings in a memory location, then each time you want to use synergic mode, you would chose that memory slot as a starting point. Of course it might be just as easy to use standard mode. I think these things aren't an issue in standard mode because we're not expecting the machine to figure anything out for us, so we're prepared to test and adjust as necessary to get it right.

Thanks,
Kevin

[WeldMore]

Maybe the synergic mode issue is a combination of 2 or more of the following:

1. Actual voltage is roughly 1 volt or so higher than display setting
2. Actual wire speed is roughly 25% faster than display setting
3. Voltage/wire speed relationship doesn't always match other calculators/settings charts

I haven't done much testing, but my guess is that if you set your wire feed speed based on your findings, then manually change the voltage (also using your measurements), it should track from that point on (at least over a certain range). You could try it and check it against your data to see if the translated values match what you're expecting. If so, you can save the settings in a memory location, then each time you want to use synergic mode, you would chose that memory slot as a starting point. Of course it might be just as easy to use standard mode. I think these things aren't an issue in standard mode because we're not expecting the machine to figure anything out for us, so we're prepared to test and adjust as necessary to get it right.

Thanks,
Kevin

Hi Kevin,
All good thoughts. Will have to wait and see what EverLast decides on refund versus replacement. If replacement, I will run up similar tests for comparison.
Thanks
Gene

[CEP]

Does the welder weld? Do you get acceptable results if you play with the wire speed, and voltage?
I personally don’t pay any attention to charts. I set all my welders to run the way I like them. Then I write the settings down, so I don’t waste time, next time I use that size wire, for any given position.

[KMA]

I can't speak for Gene, but I have the same model and it welds very well once you dial in the voltage/wire speed. It also does a good job with DC tig and stick.

I have similar charts/settings taped inside my welder door to help me get in the general vicinity prior to fine tuning.

[CEP]

Can’t tell you how many wire feed tests I’ve taken, when I walked into the testing booth there was duct tape over all the gauges. The tech would hand me some scrap plate, and say when you get the machine adjusted to your satisfaction come get me. Then the tech would put meters on the leads, if the welder wasn’t set within the wire manufacturer’s specs, test over right then and there.

[KMA]

Can’t tell you how many wire feed tests I’ve taken, when I walked into the testing booth there was duct tape over all the gauges. The tech would hand me some scrap plate, and say when you get the machine adjusted to your satisfaction come get me. Then the tech would put meters on the leads, if the welder wasn’t set within the wire manufacturer’s specs, test over right then and there.

Great story! Sounds like you don't need any charts...

[CEP]

What good is a chart? When you walk on a job site, and this is what you get for equipment.

[WeldMore]

Appreciate all the responses. Also appreciate that you folks that have been welding for some time have a wealth of knowledge and experience.
Then there is me, recently retired and wanted to move from wood working into metal work (I have no prior welding experience). Just want to do this as a hobby for some home projects for myself and occasionally for some friends. So I was looking for a welder that would be easy to set-up for a variety of applications and be smart enough to help compensate for my lack of experience.
The 211Si looked like it had all the features someone would need as they gained experience and the Synergic mode would be great for folks, like myself, just getting started. Since Synergic did not offer good results (a shared problem by others), I went to the welding charts for guidance. Well that didn't quite work out either.
But kudos to EverLast, they offered a refund on the unit.
I still think the 211Si looks like the best welder out there in that price range. Wish it had worked out.

[KMA]

I'm glad to hear Everlast was able to give you a refund. I agree the 211Si is a compelling package (that's why I picked one up earlier this year ). It was a first run unit, and I did have an issue with operating at cooler temperatures, but they sent a replacement board which addressed the problem. I was very seriously considering the Lincoln 210MP, but it seemed more like a very nice mig/stick welder that could also do some tig with upgrades. The new ESAB Rebel looks really nice too, but there is no solenoid for tig gas control and it is more expensive with the extra equipment needed. The 211/251Si also includes HF start, which is a great feature not found in other multiprocess units.

[WeldMore]

Hi KMA
Been great corresponding with you. You are spot on for the Licoln and Rebel. The Rebel won't be at distributors until January and one might expect the early units to be a bit buggy. If I just want to use the charts there is also the Tweco Fabricator 211i. Good reviews and local service. Including the rebate it is similar price with spool gun and stick and TIG (but no pedal, no HF start and no auto gas for TIG). One nice thing about the Tweco is they have a full service manual for download with all the adjustment procedures. If that was available for the 211Si I never would have returned it.
Good luck.

[KMA]

I looked very hard at the Fabricator 211i since it seems to be a very nice machine. I also agree with you on the 211Si manual... Everlast seems to make good user manuals, so it's a shame they don't have this one available yet.

[WeldMore]

First happy Thanksgiving.
I don't know why, but I was looking at your voltage and amperage data this morning. There seems to be an inverse correlation between voltage and current (although it may be loose). One day, when you are bored, try running a power plot. I wonder if it would show a somewhat flat power output.

[KMA]

Happy Thanksgiving to you too!

I plotted my previous runs and they were not particularly flat... power fluctuated within a range between 2500 and 3000 watts. Not sure what to gather from that, or if that's what should be expected. I'd need another welder to compare it to.

[WeldMore]

Happy Thanksgiving to you too!

I plotted my previous runs and they were not particularly flat... power fluctuated within a range between 2500 and 3000 watts. Not sure what to gather from that, or if that's what should be expected. I'd need another welder to compare it to.

Thanks dude.
It was just a curiosity.
Have a great holiday.