Education - College vs Private vs Self Taught

[Sberry]

A lot of the guys here don't need help with general fabrication skills like a teenager but they need to learn welding. How good and what is the question. Fixing some yard stuff for Joe Retired is different than a 21 yr old in the construction industry. Same for maintenance people, I know guys cant stick but aint all bad wire welders, a little school wouldn't hurt but they can get the work done. I had a Bud stop in and ask for a lesson in 7018 up. We worked on it for an hour, he got a lot better. I saw a kid from a votech pick up a machine and prove he could run it, some not, some got talent some don't.
I was teaching a class type thing and the father wanted the son to participate but it was so much more efficient to teach the father who can teach jr, Dad had the manual skill set where he had mastered his hands.

[Sberry]

Most good welders have had some instruction. Doesn't have to be formal school, can be as well. I got fired for having my helper welding back in the day. He was wanting to test, he needed a couple days practice. He did a good job. It was free, he got paid I didn't have anything to do but look over his shoulder once in a while.
He was a pretty fair welder his whole Ironworker career, don't think he likely got any other training than ojt when he got a chance.

[Sberry]

A guy asked me last week about welding, flux and pipe. If I fart around a couple weeks can do it all well but to walk in to a critical test booth today would be a problem. I told him,,, there would be enough general and fab welding to occupy me, I don't really wanna do that.

[farmersammm]

Education vs. self taught...…………...Hell...…...I dunno

I taught myself to weld. It was sorta ok, but cosmetics weren't all that great. It took looking over someone's shoulder to make it click. Same with uphill, it took that look at someone doing it right. (Note to y'all……….just observe someone who does a nice job......it's all you need to up your skill level)

Fabricating is a multi skill process. I truly feel that some formal education in Engineering is a plus. I wish I had some schooling on the subject. I'd wager that a mediocre engineer could do in an hour, what it takes me days of obsessing to figure out.

On the other hand......fabricating stuff that never existed,, not just making something commonly found, is an "idea" thing...….I don't believe that can be taught. It's innate......either there, or it ain't.

I wish I was a ton better at what I do, than what I am......but it's too late in the game to change it much. K'kins is really nice to me...…"You'll figure it out, you always do". Yabutt……...sometimes it takes a looooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooong time

[farmersammm]

Just a thought in closing.

Edison wasn't the "brightest bulb" on the Planet...…………...he had business sense...…..his whole claim to fame rode on the backs of the people he hired to invent stuff in his name.

So....you don't have to be a Master at everything going on out there on the shop floor....running a business is about running a business. Lotta guys get bogged down in the minutia, and lose sight of the business model, which sometimes leads to failure.

[Lawrenceschurman]

Self-taught is the best option if you really want something to learn, from my experience (teacher 10 years), I understand that students best learn what they really are interested in, not what the university teaches them.

[John T]

Self-taught is the best option if you really want something to learn, from my experience (teacher 10 years), I understand that students best learn what they really are interested in, not what the university teaches them.

I agree with that to a small extent
But I also think that you need some guidance along the way.

Otherwise you Will continue to make the mistakes that you taught yourself.

There is no better time in history to learn the art of welding especially if you’re going to try it on your own.


The Internet is full of great teachers and this forum has a lot of great knowledge in its own right.

Teaching yourself?
You can’t teach what you don’t know.

Trial and error is a big waste of time especially in this day and age.

Maybe I’m taking your post out of context but

You actually said self taught
Which actually means self taught with no other outside input.

Which is completely ridiculous.

In whatever it is you want to learn.

[smithdoor]

My father show how to do stick welding in 10 minutes back in 1964. The rest was from books.

FYI I did go to college for engineering.

Dave

In early stages of preparation to launch a small custom fabrication business.

Not 100% on what specific niche we will be focused on but in general it will be more 'decorative' and non-structural type work (signs, furniture, artwork etc).

Of course, especially at the outset, I want the skills and equipment to be in a position to not turn away more 'dirty' work (equipment repairs etc) should it come my way.

I want to learn how to weld skillfully and safely with multiple processes and in diverse situations.


I'm comfortable teaching myself through trial and error and with the use of the vast amount or information available to us all these days. From a dollars and cents perspective this makes most sense short term as all time and money to be put into education can go into equipment and actual welding.

BUT

I value expertise and believe that can potentially save me money and time in the mid to long run.

College programs are relatively long, cover a ton of stuff not relevant to my goals (resume writing, for example) and I've heard that class time is significant while actual shop time is limited. As a plus, they tend to be quite inexpensive.

Private schools have much shorter program lengths and seem to be much more focused on actually welding. But they are significantly more expensive.


So, private fab shop for non-structural decorative work.

Teach myself or go to college or go to a private school?

Look forward to hearing from experienced welders!

(ps I DO have some experience with MIG, FC and Stick but it is limited. I also have a strong mechanical/hand on work experience background if that's relevant)

[whtbaron]

I'm mostly self taught as well (they did teach us O/A in college)... but in this day and age, I think that just might be the most expensive way to learn...

[Woznme]

My father show how to do stick welding in 10 minutes back in 1964. The rest was from books.

FYI I did go to college for engineering.

Dave

Didn't you say you were highly qualified back on that other thread? Turns out you have 10 mins of pappy talk.
Did he at least give you a packet of fruit loops to lucky dip a cert from?

[smithdoor]

I have very background from books .
Before I was in high school I welding on metal buildings going to LA airports and inspect by the buildingdepartment.

If was you I pickup the Lincoln welding book. It does better job of training than most schools.

FYI I have had a license in steel buildings and college in engineering
too.

Dave

Didn't you say you were highly qualified back on that other thread? Turns out you have 10 mins of pappy talk.
Did he at least give you a packet of fruit loops to lucky dip a cert from?

[smithdoor]

Why wood you go to school for job you have and doing?

Most go to school to get the skill to get a job.

Dave

Didn't you say you were highly qualified back on that other thread? Turns out you have 10 mins of pappy talk.
Did he at least give you a packet of fruit loops to lucky dip a cert from?

[Woznme]

I have very background from books .
Before I was in high school I welding on metal buildings going to LA airports and inspect by the buildingdepartment.

If was you I pickup the Lincoln welding book. It does better job of training than most schools.

FYI I have had a license in steel buildings and college in engineering
too.

Dave

Finally you answered a question! Thankyou.
Training is one thing, certification and qualification to standards is another. You can't get these without good formal training and I have them all. I need them for my work which gets x-rayed all the time.
I don't need your book. I recon it must be incomplete because you took it upon yourself to advise someone to bake cellulose rods. He could have started a fire in his house. That makes you dangerous.
Correct me if I'm wrong, but the only thing I've seen you post up is your cart. It does look like it was welded by someone with 10 minutes of instructions and book waving so I believe you about this.
FYI the correct terminology for "humping" is weld reinforcement. You must have missed that in your book.

My free advice to you is stick to telling us how you've done absolutely everything, just don't tell anyone how you did it. That way nobody gets hurt.

[smithdoor]

A certificate welder need a license shop to work for certification to be any good.

The license holder needs to know more than the certificate welder.

Dave

Finally you answered a question! Thankyou.
Training is one thing, certification and qualification to standards is another. You can't get these without good formal training and I have them all. I need them for my work which gets x-rayed all the time.
I don't need your book. I recon it must be incomplete because you took it upon yourself to advise someone to bake cellulose rods. He could have started a fire in his house. That makes you dangerous.
Correct me if I'm wrong, but the only thing I've seen you post up is your cart. It does look like it was welded by someone with 10 minutes of instructions and book waving so I believe you about this.
FYI the correct terminology for "humping" is weld reinforcement. You must have missed that in your book.

My free advice to you is stick to telling us how you've done absolutely everything, just don't tell anyone how you did it. That way nobody gets hurt.

[California]

MBA here, now retired from a Big Public Agency. Journeyman Carpenter long ago. That paid for the grad school. Now welding as a hobby and doing DIY repairs on hobby-farm old tractors etc. So my perspective is different from a tradesman. I have a little in common with the OP who wants to weld artistic, crafts-fair stuff except he probably has a better artist's eye. (Did the OP ever return?)

So ... the main thing I can add to this conversation is re business sense. To start a business you have to consider the back-office stuff as well as the shop floor. You need expertise in both to stay afloat. You are going to be surprised how much overhead cost there is compared to just working hourly for others. One of my roles was evaluate contractors' cost proposals for reasonableness. We found labor cost plus 100~125% for overhead was common, then allowable profit around 10% on top of that. Digging into the detail of that overhead, it was reasonable. Taxes, building and equipment depreciation, worker's comp rates based on prior workers OTJ injuries, formal retirement savings plans, paid employee vacation and training, accounting services. All are essential costs to consider, for pricing your work. We found that firms who skimped on overhead costs were the same ones with a poor reputation from customers and employees.

And - don't think of self-employed as a business, if you are only earning journeyman wages for yourself. Rather, think of your own 'employee wages' PLUS on top of that, a profit from the business after all expenses. It's this business profit element that is missing from a half-baked business plan.

[smithdoor]

I think over looking I did go college for engineering too.

So now I have far more education for steel than most.

FYI I used humping weld use for reinforcement of a weld so everyone know what looks like.
Most would not know some of terminology. So do not take things out of context.

Dave

Finally you answered a question! Thankyou.
Training is one thing, certification and qualification to standards is another. You can't get these without good formal training and I have them all. I need them for my work which gets x-rayed all the time.
I don't need your book. I recon it must be incomplete because you took it upon yourself to advise someone to bake cellulose rods. He could have started a fire in his house. That makes you dangerous.
Correct me if I'm wrong, but the only thing I've seen you post up is your cart. It does look like it was welded by someone with 10 minutes of instructions and book waving so I believe you about this.
FYI the correct terminology for "humping" is weld reinforcement. You must have missed that in your book.

My free advice to you is stick to telling us how you've done absolutely everything, just don't tell anyone how you did it. That way nobody gets hurt.

[scsmith42]

Personally I'd suggest the following.

1 - Associates degree in business. College will help you learn how to find the answers, and provide a basic foundation in economics, accounting and business principles. A minor in liberal arts will help you become a better person, and the history of the world.
2 - Trade school to learn the craft of welding. Get certified. It's very difficult to become certified is you are self taught. A good school will help.
3 - Continuing education as self-taught.

[smithdoor]

I do agree A good school would help.

Some times I wish I had but time I was old enough I are ready a good welder.

Using books is how I became a great welder. Also going to high school and college for engineering help too.
I also had a opportunity to watch great welders in my father shop too. Seeing how did weld preparation.

The biggest problem I see is finding a good school that does more than teach just how to burn a rod.

I also have a degree in Gunsmithing too.

Dave

Personally I'd suggest the following.

1 - Associates degree in business. College will help you learn how to find the answers, and provide a basic foundation in economics, accounting and business principles. A minor in liberal arts will help you become a better person, and the history of the world.
2 - Trade school to learn the craft of welding. Get certified. It's very difficult to become certified is you are self taught. A good school will help.
3 - Continuing education as self-taught.

[SweetMK]

Personally I'd suggest the following.

1 - Associates degree in business. College will help you learn how to find the answers, and provide a basic foundation in economics, accounting and business principles. A minor in liberal arts will help you become a better person, and the history of the world.
2 - Trade school to learn the craft of welding. Get certified. It's very difficult to become certified is you are self taught. A good school will help.
3 - Continuing education as self-taught.

Well, coincidentally, I did all of that, sort of in that order,, in the late 1960's and 1970's
My father had died in 1962, so Social Security sent a check to my mom as long as I was in school.

SO, AFTER high school, I found that mom kept getting the monthly checks if I went to a technical school.
My friend was pushed by his father to go to a technical school for Air Conditioning, And Refrigeration,, I decided to also go to that school.

Then, along came the draft, I joined the US NAVY,, they decided I needed welder training, up to nuclear sub hull certification,, (because I had the Associates Degree in AC & R)
and they gave me a pay check!!

After the US NAVY, I found that if I went to college, the US NAVY time resulted in a monthly check that was close to what I could earn at the jobs available.
Off to college,, for a degree in Materials Science Engineering,,

If you follow my career, you will notice as a young guy,, I was taking the lazy approach to life,,
1) technical school for two years so mom kept getting a check each month (that also included military draft exemption)
2) US NAVY, or else I would end up in Vietnam with bullets flying
3) Engineering degree, because that was four years of easier money than working

In the end, I had a great education, I was successful as an engineer, and I had enough knowledge to start and run my own business.

I am not saying that my path was well laid out, but, everything fell into place for a pretty good life, before I had the internet to tell me what to do!! LOL!!

Without each piece, the other pieces would not have been as successful.

[Lucaskook]

I think the most perfect is to learn by yourself from books, internet, youtube.

[smithdoor]

That how learned welding (books only it before the internet)

Dave

I think the most perfect is to learn by yourself from books, internet, youtube.

[California]

Personally I'd suggest the following.

1 - Associates degree in business. College will help you learn how to find the answers, and provide a basic foundation in economics, accounting and business principles. A minor in liberal arts will help you become a better person, and the history of the world.
2 - Trade school to learn the craft of welding. Get certified. It's very difficult to become certified is you are self taught. A good school will help.
3 - Continuing education as self-taught.

Well said.

[smithdoor]

Most how get a cert is paid by the employer. Typically the employer will test the new employee before paying for test.
Most that do the testing to care if read drawing just the welding symbols at most.
Then need to re-cert ever few years too.

I do agree Most have had a educational in welding. The ones that self-taught never read any books on welding they think they know everything.
You can learn from books but most self-taught never open a book


Dave

Well said.

[smithdoor]

Try this question with welders.
How do you use E7018.

Dave

Well said.

[Lucaskook]

Read books, look at pictures, and ultimately you go and watch how someone else does it.