300sm + PDII

[nuyz125]

Hey Everyone,

So I have been enjoying my 300ss, and recently was able to score a 300sm with a power drive II at an auction for cheap (like sub 200) so I figured I would try it out. The unit is clean, came on a really nice cart, and was wired for 460. Swapped everything over this weekend, and it stick welds. Now I am trying to troubleshoot the wire feed. It did not come with a gun - so I need to figure out what is compatible and pick up one of those - but it seems something is still amiss - when I press the "inch" or feed rocker switch, nothing moves, but I hear a whining/straining noise. Mechanically at least, the drive roller is free to move, so I need to dig a little deeper.

Question from my side is - I found the manual on ARCONWELD website, but the connection diagrams are impossible to read. Does anyone have a better copy, or the actual manual that they could text me, or scan in? I would be very grateful!

It would be really nice to get this working with the feeder and all.

Another quick question - in the 300sm manual, it shows two seperate cables - one for the power supply, and one for the contactor/remote control. Later though, it shows the 14pin cable housing pins 1,2,3 as 115, 115, and ground, respectively. Does this mean I don't need the 115v seperate power supply (because I only have the remote cable).

Thanks all!

[soutthpaw]

Yeah, the 115 goes through the remote cable.
Here is the copy of the manual I have, not sure if it's any better
https://drive.google.com/file/d/0BzZ...p=docslist_api

[nuyz125]

Wow - thanks Southpaw..I think youve helped me before with some stuff..

Your scan is great - super clear! However, I was actually looking for the PDII scan - thats the one that has the circuits and connection diagrams for the wire feed itself.

However, I will probably print your version of the SM manual out to have with my machine. Definitely better than the other version!

Thanks

[nuyz125]

One more question - can anyone advise me on what type of mig gun I need for a power drive II? It seems like a "tweco back end"..but I would like to find something somewhat affordable or even used, just to test everything out..any advice would be welcome! Thanks

[7A749]

It should be Tweco Universal IIRC.

[nuyz125]

Hey guys,

Any chance anyone who has a PDII powered through a 300sm would be willing to take a picture of the second terminal strip (mounted horizontally) for me?

I am trying to diagnose my wirefeeder, but the manual from arconweld is incomplete (missing every other page) and the most important page (wiring diagrams) is too small/poor quality to read.

I know I asked already, but no one would happen to have that manual would they? Even a cell phone shot of two or three pages would suffice.

The unit powers up - but drive rolls don't spin, although it makes noise like it wants to..

Thanks,

Gus

[soutthpaw]

The pd2 is actually a Miller S22 feeder or SR22 something like that. Post a pic of the feeder. I'm sure Steve will recognize it

[7A749]

The only feeders I've ever seen in real life as far as PowCon machines go are those goofy plastic case ones that locked on top of the power supply. Wouldn't surprise me if Miller was putting the PowCon name on 24 volt feeders of that timeframe, which would be indeed an S21 or S22A. The S21 was the budget model with small drive rolls, the S22 had the regular sized ones. These are not to be confused with the 22A and 24A which were later model machines with a completely different look and general design. Those came along in the late 90s.

The 22 line of wire feeders in general were Miller's light industrial offerings. After 50 series feeders ceased production in the early 90s, these models went into production, along with the 60 series feeders, which were the 24 volt heavy industrial cousins of the 22A units.

Come to think of it, I may have seen one on the net. ITW acquired PowCon around 1996, so that would have been right around that model run.

[nuyz125]

This is what I have..I would agree, it seems like the 22a miller feeder looks very similar, I will read the manual tonight.

Here is a link to what I have:

https://www.google.com/search?q=pow+...JYKQi-ZR2LM%3A

So none of you guys use one of these wire feeders? I am somewhat bummed if I can't get it working, bc that means I STILL don't have a mig...seems like the pow con itself is in really nice shape though.

Thanks,

g

[7A749]

Nope. Not anything that looks like a standard Miller feeder. Have no clue who made it, maybe PowCon actually did.

[soutthpaw]

Nope. Not anything that looks like a standard Miller feeder. Have no clue who made it, maybe PowCon actually did.

I'm sure I remember reading that it was made by Miller.... I'd call Arcon then and seeded if they have a wiring diagram for it

[Jawslandshark]

Hey guys,

Any chance anyone who has a PDII powered through a 300sm would be willing to take a picture of the second terminal strip (mounted horizontally) for me?

I am trying to diagnose my wirefeeder, but the manual from arconweld is incomplete (missing every other page) and the most important page (wiring diagrams) is too small/poor quality to read.

I know I asked already, but no one would happen to have that manual would they? Even a cell phone shot of two or three pages would suffice.

The unit powers up - but drive rolls don't spin, although it makes noise like it wants to..

Thanks,

Gus

If you give me a couple days I will take the cover off mine and shoot you some pics of anything you need. I have a mess going right now with painting going on and the Powcon is covered up in the corner.

[nuyz125]

I would appreciate it! Thanks for your input!

-g

[Jawslandshark]

I almost forgot when I was going through mine a few months ago I remember seeing Hobart on one of the circuit boards or something. Mine takes Tweco drive rolls and put a Tweco 250 gun on it. Nothing was stamped Miller that I saw, it all resembled old Hobart stuff, even the drive setup, like the Porta-feed but that one used special drive rolls.

[7A749]

It does indeed look like a Hobart unit. I was thinking that when I saw the pix but wasn't sure.

[7A749]

I'm sure I remember reading that it was made by Miller.... I'd call Arcon then and seeded if they have a wiring diagram for it

That one might be a Hobart made unit. It is possible another one may have been a Miller made machine tho.

[nuyz125]

Guys! You are right - there is a miller feeder that looks very similar, but the Hobart 2210 is EXACTLY the same feeder, down to the troubleshooting chart. Unfortunately the user manual for the hobart does not include schematic pictures, but at least I am on the right track. I think I need to consider if I want to pay for the 40 dollar hobart manual..nonetheless, this gives me something to work with!

@Jaws - if you are still able at some point to pull your cover, it'd be a huge help!

Thanks guys. I did try arconweld, but the guy answering the phones did a very good job of convincing me they no longer could offer any assistance whatsoever, so thats a shame, but nonetheless, step in the right direction identifying it

[Jawslandshark]

nuyz125- if you want to PM me an email or number I will text some pictures tonight, that way if you need more or have any questions we can do it while I have everything apart. Hopefully we can get you working.

I figured that Hobart info might be useful for something even though it did not fix you, I am not the best with knowing what machine exactly just been around this equipment awhile. Funny though that Thermal Arc built the old Porta-feeds for Hobart with Hobart parts? Now its that Hobart made feeders for Cyclomatic that use Tweco parts, and drives that eventually went into Porta-feeds. This stuff will make your head spin.

[nuyz125]

Hey Guys,

So after TONS of jacking around, I have determined that the Power Drive 2 has something more wrong with the board than I am able to fix - I had a friend do some diagnostics, and we replaced three failed transistors, and still nothing..

So - I pulled out the power drive 1 that someone gave me becasue they couldn't get it working..well after putting a 115vac --> 24vac step down transformer in it, it works with the 300sm. Finally!

However, the drive rolls were slipping a bit, and it seemed to have trouble feeding wire smoothly. I bought a new diffuser, tips, shielding nozzle, and liner, and installed all of it tonight, with high hopes..

I have laid a couple beads down, but am not having as much success as I was somewhat hoping. To review, here is what I am doing:

300sm, wired to 230v single phase.
The gun is connected to the +, ground to the -
low range, power set on "50"
process set to the far right - I think it's GMAW (not short)
gas (c25) set to around 30 cfm
wire feed is at the middle range

Puddle control (no idea what it's for even with reference to mig) is on "cold", but I don't know what it does or if it has an influence..

I have been able to run a couple little beads, but what is happening often (and apologies for the weird description), but its like the gas is lighting on fire somewhat, and burning the wire up very quickly...

Can anyone either recommend some good base settings for me to play around with?

My drive rollers still seem to slip a bit, it seems to be the right side of the roller (.035) and I'm using ER70s wire, so I don't THINK I'm being dumb, but I am definitely not an expert

Thanks for any advice, as always guys! We are getting there!

[Jawslandshark]

Put it on GMAW SHORT, low range, puddle control in the middle, weld power at 60, and wire feed at 3. Start there and let me know. I don't know what thickness you are welding but work from here on up till you get the right penetration.

[Jawslandshark]

Then let me know what you want for the non-working power drive 2. I want to build a double stack spool setup.

[nuyz125]

Ok quick feedback - I adjusted the stiction or tension on the wire roller, not the drive roller itself but the plastic bushing that the roll of wire mounts on. It was pretty snug. I loosened it up significantly, now I can (on the outer edge) spin the wheel with one finger, but it still stops relatively quickly. Overall far less resistance. I also tried the settings you recommended. It seemed to lack penetration, so I flipped it to GMAW (not short) and I (finally) got what I was looking for, nice crisp sound, clean no spatter weld, and great penetration. With the power at 60 it very quickly overheated the test I was using, so backed down to 50 and I was laying nice beads down!

I will start building my welding table as soon as I get back from a business trip next week, and post a pic. Thanks again!

And jaws - I am going to try a couple more things with the PD20 - if it doesnt work, its coming your way

[Jawslandshark]

Flip it back to GMAW Short, the other is spray mode and you can get it to work that way but the puddle control does not work, trust me you will want to change that inductance for different types of weld positions and to soften up the arc. When you get back tell me what thickness you are welding and I will give you the setup. Probably just need more wire speed, I told you kinda low for a starting position but at weld power 60 probably need to be closer to 4 on the wire feed speed. If I had to guess you were welding 1/8 steel.

Sounds like you have the spool adjusted correctly, make sure proper tension is also on the feed rolls. On .035 mine is like on the 4 setting of the little graph but it depends on how good your spring still is.

[soutthpaw]

It's really worth running 15 seconds of wire at each speed setting, measure it then multiply by 4 to get IPM. or 10 sec x6 etc. You may find that the increase from one number to the next is NOT a linear increase. Then write those numbers on the dial. Makes it easier to use weld calculators etc. Is the spool of wire itself spinning freely enough?