Saw the New Lenox Diamond Cutoff Wheels Today

[user 9328330]

Don't know if y'all know about these yet or not, but while I was perusing in the LWS today, the salesman pulled me aside to show me the newest thing. Lenox rep stopped by and left him one each of a 4.5" and 6" diamond cutoff wheel. Yes, it's for steel (and other metals). Looks like a miniature concrete saw blade, I think it's called the Metalmax. I asked about price, he said around $10/ea. For that you supposedly get a lot more cuts and of course the wheel doesn't get smaller.

Interesting idea. I tried to buy the 4.5" wheel from him, but he said that was his only one for now and had to keep it for display. Definitely a wheel I'll try.

EDIT to say I found a link to them, and it looks like they came out about a month ago:

http://www.lenoxtools.com/Pages/lenox-metalmax.aspx

Would be interested in hearing from anybody who's used one.

[N2 Welding]

They are pricey more so on Amazon.

[Oldendum]

It has always been my impression that diamond blades were not suitable for steel due to the affinity between carbon and steel. But I see a couple others have similar product:

http://www.csunitec.com/sanding_poli...wheel-new.html

http://mkdiamond.com/metal/index.html

[WNY_TomB]

It has always been my impression that diamond blades were not suitable for steel due to the affinity between carbon and steel. But I see a couple others have similar product:

http://www.csunitec.com/sanding_poli...wheel-new.html

http://mkdiamond.com/metal/index.html

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diamond wheels and cutting steel is not recommended as at red heat steel eats diamond. CBN is usually used for steel and appears the same as diamond. machinist are taught this in their apprenticeship.
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many a salesman will try to sell products for application they are not best suited too.

[N2 Welding]

I was thinking I wouldn't want a lot of diamond dust all over a shop.

[user 9328330]

many a salesman will try to sell products for application they are not best suited too.

Maybe you missed it, but these aren't a concrete wheel being pushed by salesmen as capable of cutting metal. Lenox is marketing these as a metal-cutting wheel.

[AFFENDE]

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diamond wheels and cutting steel is not recommended as at red heat steel eats diamond. CBN is usually used for steel and appears the same as diamond. machinist are taught this in their apprenticeship.
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many a salesman will try to sell products for application they are not best suited too.

Technology usually advances must faster than what we teach. Short arc used to be a no-no ... and now, due to technological advances, it is a fast, clean, and economical way to bead pipe.

[dodis]

Delurking...

Just read this thread last week, then a few days later ran across a display at Lowe's with 4" & 4 1/2" discs. Went ahead and grabbed a 4 1/2", $15. Made two 24" cuts in some 1/8" this weekend. No wear on the disc, though it seems to have more friction or drag, sounded like it was bogging the grinder down a bit more than regular discs. But that may be the HF grinder too... I did get out my 4" Makita with a new cutting disc, and though it didn't have the same slowdown, the disc only made it less than 2 minutes...

So far, I would have to give the new discs good marks, just have to pay attention to how hard I push it. Also need to move the disc over to my B&D grinder. Reserve the HFs for lighter work...

And just a note on the material being cut, once done it appeared that what I thought was 1/8" is actually two layers of 1/16" that appears to be soldered together as a sheet, don't know if that added to the drag. It is the mounting plate from my old Rand-4000 compressor. Keeping the mount for the compressor and motor to bolt onto a new tank.

[Bls repair]

How was speed of cut?

[dodis]

Well, didn't time it since I had to keep stopping to mop sweat before it flooded my glasses... I guess total it took about 10-15 minutes in all, trying to not bog down the grinder too much. And I gave the Makita a shot while I let the HF cool off some. But compared to the regular wheel on the Makita 4" grinder, the cut speed seemed to be pretty close to the same. But even if it is a little slower, it makes up for the time taken to install new regular discs. As fast as the regular one wore down on the Makita, I can see it would have easily taken 6-8 discs to make the two cuts I made, if not more.

If I would have had room for it, I would have used my circular saw with a carbide metal blade, but I did use it afterwards to get a nice straight cut, trimmed off the rough edge.

[user 9328330]

Thanks for the heads-up on Lowe's. I went to my local Lowe's and sure enough, they had 4" and 4.5" wheels on the rack. Kind of in the same area as the hole saws and the sawzall blades, not with circular saw blades which is where I looked first. Paid around $15/ea for a couple of 4.5" ones to see how they work.

I'll report back when I get a chance to compare them with the Metabo Original Slicers that I use now. The only thing I'd prefer off the bat about these wheels would be that they'd be Type 27 instead of flat.

[ManoKai]

Lenox BiMetal holes saws are nice. Regarding their MetalMax diamond edged cutoff wheel available online for $26/ea, it had better do really/really well for the economics to work out. Wonder if there is any published data (probably not yet).....independent testing.....showing the MTBF for the 6" discs.

If our LWS scores a MetalMax, will ask to see if we could do the Pepsi Challenge with it against the German/Austrian abrasives.

[Bryce masuk]

I would imagine they would perform well on sheet metal and thin objects where you score the metal more than have to take deep cuts.

I would also think they would do much better if your careful with them and don't heat them up too much.

I wonder whether they would work on stainless steel sheet metal?

I wouldn't want to see what happens when the disk fails, I doubt a face shield would stop a chunk of that disk at 10 000 rpm

They have had these type of blades for the 14" saws for a few years and they are really expensive, but if the price comes down maybe we will see more of these types of things.

this type of stuff tends to work well when its new and if care is taken using it.

Once something happens to it like a Bandsaw blade or a Carbide blade performance really drops off

lenox's primary market is plumbers and electrician's which this product may really work well in some applications it may not do well in others.

[Sputter Fizzle]

I have been using the 4 1/2 for a few years now. They work fine and don't get smaller. They are supposed to out last 30-40 abrasive disks. When you cut they don't clog the air (and clog your lungs) with abrasive dust. Just shiny steel particles left behind. I cannot comment on how the cut speed compares to abrasive because I have it on a battery powered Makita grinder.

[ManoKai]

^ any images of cut quality on SS or 4130 tubing? Any excessive post-cut cleanup required to severed end? Be nice if they made .040/.045" blades.

[thegary]

I will have to try a couple of them. I mostly use 6" cut wheels so I will have to look for them. I will get a few 4.5" also for tight places. I probably go through 50 - 100 cut off wheels a month .

[user 9328330]

I have been using the 4 1/2 for a few years now.

According to Lenox these Metalmax wheels are brand new to the market, out for less than 2 months. Which wheels have you been using?

[BrooklynBravest]

Diamond wheels are very capable of cutting steel.

We use desert diamond 14" blades in our rotary saws as a pilot program to right now to potentially replace the aluminum oxide blades. They do cut a little slower but we can cut through an entire store front of roll down gates on one blade.

Those blades are $150 each and the 4.5" grinder size is around 100. They're definitely better suited for demolition work rather than fabrication.


Skip to the end in the video. The last two demonstrations I use both the grinder and rotary saw desert diamond blades.

[el bob]

Nice video Brooklyn.

[N2 Welding]

I saw them yesterday at Lowe's so I picked up one of these to see what all the hype is about. I probably won't use it for a while because my new Makita LC1230 showed up last night and cuts really good.

[user 9328330]

OK, so I got off to a start with one of these in 4.5" size. I was cutting some 14 ga sheet metal that was unsupported, part of a structure that'd been crushed so there was a lot of built-up pressure in it. As most know who deal with abrasive wheels, unsupported sheet is one of the hardest materials on them; they tend to 'dust' and wear down faster than stuff that's solid. Anyhow, here are my thoughts so far:

1) These wheels are a no-go on my Milwaukee M18 Fuel rechargeable grinder. They take more power to cut with and are slightly heavier than abrasive wheels. I'd sliced two, 2" long welds and pierced and cut about 10" of the sheet when the 4.0Ah battery only showed one bar remaining.

2) Switched to a Metabo flathead grinder on 120V. These don't have the 'bite' that an abrasive wheel does, and I haven't experimented enough yet to know if they cut better just leaving them in one spot and letting them progress or working the grinder with a back-and-forth motion like I usually do to prolong the life of abrasive wheels. The lack of bite means that it's a lot harder to accurately use the grinder one-handed out of position - not that I would ever do or recommend doing that. Also, I was doing the back and forth on this rip cut, and once finished had a pretty wide piece of swarf or whatever you want to call it where it looked more like the wheel had melted the steel than cut it. This was on a 5' long cut.

3) To do the same work with the Metabo Original Slicers that I currently use, I'd probably have gone through 2-3 wheels. 1-2 wheels if the sheet had been supported. The Lenox wheel looks like it's holding up fine so far. There are a couple of tiny areas where it looks like the diamonds are missing, but the whole wheel was painted white when I started and they could've been missing from the beginning. So don't know. Looks like the area under the diamonds is painted red.

4) I really liked that the wheel stays the same size. I'm often using cutoffs only if I can't fit another tool in to do the job - a metal-cutting circular saw in this case. When the wheels get smaller I lose the reach for certain areas, then have to switch to bigger wheels and save the half-used wheels for other places. Lots of time lost doing that.

5) I also liked that the wheel is steel. On this job I would've ended up with mangled cutoff wheels when the steel broke free at the end of the cut. I'm used to that, wear my PPE, and it doesn't catch me by surprise, but it's always a question where the chunk(s) are going to fly. I specifically used the Lenox wheel for that reason and it held up fine when the piece sprung out under pressure.

6) Although it does cut slower, having the ability to start and end a cut with the same wheel can be an advantage depending on where you're working. If in a shop, who cares - your stack of cutoffs are right there. But if working up on a ladder somewhere it's a different story.

7) I was also able to use the wheel a lot more comfortably as a light grinder wheel to cut off the swarf it left beside of the cut. Its lack of bite meant that it didn't try to gouge out the base metal as much as an abrasive cutoff being used in that manner, not that I would ever do or recommend doing that.

8) So my initial thoughts are that these wheels do have uses, but they may or may not replace cutoff wheels in everyday use. I'll have to use them a lot more to make a decision on that.

[ManoKai]

@ tbone550 - nice insight. Thanks for sharing. The issues with the wheels not quite performing in battery mode is prob related to the added mass (inertia) of the diamond blade. The goal on any spinning assembly in automotive/aerospace/etc is to reduce the rotating mass/weight to gain efficiency.

Any noticeable change in the dB level during use? Does the blade seems to cut cleanly or disintegrate surfaces a la an abrasive style blade? As you mentioned, operator technique is key.

Economics. Lenox claims 1000 cuts with their MetallicaMax cutters. You say you would have gone through 2-3 Metabo slicers to make the same cut. If we parse out just the cost of consumables.....not including the time/labor required to change the slicers......you could own approximately 100ea Metabo 4-1/2" x .040" Slicers for the cost of 1ea Lenox. You also saved the co$t of time by not having to swap out with additional slicer blades.

By the numbers, the Lenox blades appear to be competitive if the MetallicaMax indeed yields 1000ea cuts. Still prefer to have a {safe} thin kerf when severing materials. .040" and .035" are sweet to run with cordless and pneumatics.

Be cool to see some of your images of the cut surfaces on mild steel and your feedback from rip'n stainless steel in the future.

[N2 Welding]

What is your take on the saws abilty to chew through flesh. My concern is when I happen to brush against my arm, leg or hands while using this metal blade. Abrasives just burn and carterize instantly. Im wondering if this would be the same or worse...

[Bonzoo]

I have an Extreme115 mm. It cuts and cuts but it's slow with a wide kerf. A Metabo slicer cuts 3x as fast but the $ difference could matter to some. I consider consumables an expense. I try to buy good stuff to get more work out of an hour for the victim. That.s why I still run acetylene only around here.Versatility.
The diamond is on an old 'kita in the truck. Zipped a bunch of rebar and 1/8 x 4 for forms yesterday and cut some 1 1/2 tube with notches as a screed. Wood is for cave people ;-)
That wasn't a paying job so I used that diamond instead of slicers or my chopsaw or portaband. The steel is back in the rack.

[user 9328330]

What is your take on the saws abilty to chew through flesh. My concern is when I happen to brush against my arm, leg or hands while using this metal blade. Abrasives just burn and carterize instantly. Im wondering if this would be the same or worse...

I would guess worse. I wear gloves, leathers, and other PPE, and am careful, and have been lucky, so I don't have any grinder scars. With those relief cuts in the blade I would imagine these would be able to grab hold of flesh at least a little more than an abrasive. Nothing like a carbide toothed blade, obviously. Ugh, I shudder to think of that damage.

The other side of the safety thing is that less-experienced operators aren't going to have these explode in their hands when they twist it in the cut...something that definitely happens with abrasive wheels.